Q: (for Pros) Dan Winters like lighting

[Madison]

Hi,





I was wondering: how does Dan Winters manage to create such small spotlights on people yet manage to keep it so very very soft. I know he works on films so he could (in the case of the Ledger photograph) shoot and underexpose a bit and tweak in the darkroom (Leibowitz uses the technique as well sometimes). But in the case of DiCaprio's portrait: the light source is very small yet very soft. Stunning. Like an oil painting from the 16th century almost. I know some people do this with light skimming but really, can it be done that way? I doubt this is skimmed light, or am I wrong?

(And if it is skimmed: I suppose I cannot do that with two monoheads with just an umbrella then? I would need soft boxes right?)

http://fototapeta.art.pl/2003/i/wpp/13-WINTE.jpg

http://www3.timeoutny.com/newyork/tonyblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/715periodicalphotos031.jpg

PS: If you are Dan Winters fans, like I am, his very first book was just published! It's great!! It's called Periodical Photographs.





EDIT How stupid am I? The portrait is in the book. He uses a soft box to the right and a slight fill ring (you can see it in detail in the catch lights, duh! WHy didn't I think of this before I opened the topic).





Then the question remains: Could I do this with two umbrellas? One to the right one on axis with the cam as a slight fill?

[peety3]

EDIT How stupid am I? The portrait is in the book. He uses a soft box to the right and a slight fill ring (you can see it in detail in the catch lights, duh! WHy didn't I think of this before I opened the topic).


Then the question remains: Could I do this with two umbrellas? One to the right one on axis with the cam as a slight fill?
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I'm no "pro" at studio lighting, but I'm learning some basic fundamentals: if you want soft light from a small source, you're going to have to work to get it. You could try "double diffusion" with your off-axis umbrella - I usually slap a small piece of Rosco 103 (Tough Frost??) over my speedlites as soon as I decide I want softer light, even if I'm going to put it in an umbrella. You could try that, and/or a sheet of R103 somewhere in the path. I can't speak to how easy/hard it is to substitute for the ring look though.

[Keith B]

You'll need a ring light to get that even fall off. That is where the Ray Light flash adapter is great.


The Ledger pic looks scrimmed soft box. Maybe a fresnel with barn doors?

[Madison]

Thank you both but I am not working with speedlights, I am working with monoheads (Bowens Gemini 400) and umbrellas. Wondering how to achieve the same look with those. Ring Light adapters mentioned won't cut it (although Bowens does make a Ring Lite adapter for the Gemini monoheads I *just* discovered.


I dunno. Will have to start experimenting next week I guess.


I don't think Ledger is Fresnel. Fresnel shadows are different (not so soft, even diffused Fresnel light is different). I was thinking a strop light or a rectangular soft box with a minor fill (shot on film, underexposed when developing).





I love that 'painting' look. It's stunning.

[peety3]

Ah, important details to know. Let me tell you what I know about monoblocks:

[Madison]

Ah, important details to know. Let me tell you what I know about monoblocks:





[:P]

[Keith B]

Thank you both but I am not working with speedlights, I am working with monoheads (Bowens Gemini 400) and umbrellas. Wondering how to achieve the same look with those. Ring Light adapters mentioned won't cut it (although Bowens does make a Ring Lite adapter for the Gemini monoheads I *just* discovered.


I dunno. Will have to start experimenting next week I guess.


I don't think Ledger is Fresnel. Fresnel shadows are different (not so soft, even diffused Fresnel light is different). I was thinking a strop light or a rectangular soft box with a minor fill (shot on film, underexposed when developing).





I love that 'painting' look. It's stunning.






Yeah I was thinking soft box, but it looked scrimmed like barn doors, but that is probably just the oblique angle the SB is hitting the wall at.


I've never used fresnel, I was trying to recall something I read in a Michael Grecco book.


If your lights can work as optical or IR slaves you could use a flash and the ring adapter. It is a less expensive alternative. Just not as pretty but more mobile.

[Keith B]

Finally got around to trying this. I think it is pretty close(a start anyway). My girl was nice enough to sit for this. She wasn't expecting to be posing so she wasn't done up, so be kind.


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5DmkII 24-70 2.8 @70 1/60th 3.2 ISO 50 (didn't feel like stopping lights down again). Key-580EXII reverse fired in Apollo 28" Softbox Fill-580EXII (master) Expoimaging's Ray Flash Background light- 430EX with Honl 1/4 grid.


Not too much post. Just a little.

[Madison]

Keith! That is wonderful!!!!

[Keith B]

Thanks!


I can't wait to actually pull this off on a more thought out shoot.


the combination of softbox and ring are the key to that painted look. The biggest pain was finding the balance of key verse fill. My instincts were to use too much ring which really flattened out the image. Definitely don't need too much power. I even had the 580/Ring combo powered down to 1/16th power. The 580/SB was at 1/2 apx 6 feet away and I think reverse firing inside the box I loose at least 2 stops.


If I had a bigger space, I may have backed the box up and powered it up full and try to eliminate the background light.

[Madison]

Keith I REALLY appreciate it.


I recently got two Bowens monoheads and two umbrellas but no soft boxes and no rings. So I'm saving up for a ringlite converter for one of the geminis (cheapest option for now) and a soft box to attach to the other one and then I am off experimenting.





I just LOVE that look. The light is very classic and simple yet I love the purity of it so much.

[Keith B]

Cool! I'm glad to have helped.


I think the ringlite converter will be just fine if my junky rayflash pulls it off. I'd definitely invest in the softbox though. I think you'll find umbrella light will wrap around objects and kind of kill the rings painted effect. Then just play around in post with saturation, contrast and definition to finish off the look. My background was just a green wall and I changed it up in post to kind of match the brown hues of the skin, hair and eyes. I think the colors play a huge part in the look. I like how Winters matches the backgrounds with eye color most of the time.