Shooting The Moon Failures

[waltgary]

Hi all: I've got a 5d/II with a 500mm/f4 lens and 1.4/2.0 extenders. It rests on a medium qualityBogen tripod (~$110) and the WimberlySidekick Head . Obviously my equipment is far better than I am. I recently tried a second time to shoot the full moon at 4:00AM on a clear morningand failed miserably. I don't know why I want to do this as there are stock photos better than what I could get but I guess that's part of the bug.


In any event, I'd like some tips on how to shoot lunar photos using the equipment I have. I've searched here and studied what is available at sites like telescope.com but I really think I should first see what I can do with my setup.


So, I tried the following:


metering from full frame to spot/Av with apetures from 5.6/8 to 14/shutter speeds set by the camera based on my settings/iso from 100-800/exposures adjusted from full 'left' to full 'right'/remote controlled shutter release and bulb (but I don't really understand bulb, I was just trying to get it right)/manually focused via the viewfinder first/


Every photo turned out with the moon blown out severely as well as blurred. I can see craters/details in the viewfinder but the photos all come out simlarily useless. Obviously I'm doing something grossly wrong but I'm at a loss as to what to try next.


I do appreciate what I've learned on this forum. It's helped me get some great photos of other subjects but the moon has eluded me. Thanks again, gary

[jusap]

try increasing the shutter speed some more and use spot metering. since you're getting blown out shots, the objective is to try to get a bit of underexposed shots first then work from there on getting the right exposure.


i don't recommend bulb if you want to take snap shots of the moon unless you're using a really small aperture.





hth :)

[TheRoff]

The theory is that the moon is basically lit by the sun so you need to photograph it just like you would photograph something on earth lit by the bright sun. Try 1/00 at f8 with an ISO of 100. As to the blur, I am going to suggest just use the 500 mm and crop. Good luck. I would post a pic, but I haven't had any good results either.


Larry

[Bob]

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span lang="EN" style="line-height: 115%; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #666666; font-size: 9pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN;"]<span style="color: #3366cc; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;"] ("http://community.the-digital-picture.com/members/waltgary/default.aspx)<o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span lang="EN" style="line-height: 115%; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #666666; font-size: 9pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN;"]Waltgary,
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span lang="EN" style="line-height: 115%; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #666666; font-size: 9pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN;"]First you should be using spot metering and focus on the darker part of the moon&rsquo;s surface (gray areas)<o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span lang="EN" style="line-height: 115%; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #666666; font-size: 9pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN;"]Second, with a 500mm you should be using mirror lock-up and either the self timer (2 sec) or a remote release.<o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span lang="EN" style="line-height: 115%; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #666666; font-size: 9pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN;"]I would use AF vs. manual focus.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] You could bracket the exposure, but post processing the exposure will let you tune it in perfectly.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] <o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span lang="EN" style="line-height: 115%; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #666666; font-size: 9pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN;"]Good Luck

[Dumien]

I use spot metering and ISO 100 and manual exposure. Both taken with the 70-200 f/2.8 non IS


http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1545/dpp0020wtkm.jpg


Rebel XSi
ISO 100
f/2.8
1/640 sec


http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/739/dpp00013241wtkm.jpg


Rebel XSi
ISO 1600 (first time i took a moon picture)
f/11.0
1/800 sec


The moon is a lot brighter than you think, I used AF in both pictures, and they are both cropped...mirror lock up and 2 seconds timer were also on... hope this helps


andy

[Jon Ruyle]

First of all, I suggest manual exposure. Forget the meter and just play with the exposure until it is what you want. Sounds like you're over exposing. I would also suggest, just to make sure the issue isn't tripod jiggle, that you set the iso to 1600 and get a really high shutter speed. If that is sharp, experiement with lower iso. When it starts to get blurry, it means your shutter speed is too low.


You should carefully manual focus with live view (zoom in to 10x to get it exactly right).


I would also stop down as much as you can and still get sufficently low iso and high enough shutter speed (but not beyond f/10 or so because then diffraction is an issue).


I also agree with the suggestion that you first try without the extenders. There doesn't seem much point in using them unless you get something that looks sharp viewed 1-1 without them.


I don't know how blurry you mean by blurry, but the atmosphere is often the limiting factor. The picture below, taken with an 800mm f/8 telescope, is blurry. Not because of bad focus or shake (it was on a sturdy mount), but just because of the atmosphere. And this is nowhere near a 1-1 crop. So with a 500mm, extenders may not be needed unless you have steady air. (The exposure for this picture was 1/10 sec @ f/8 and iso 100 was used)


/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Components.UserFiles/00.00.00.25.93.5d+first+10000/moon.jpg

[jusap]

@jon, thats on 1/10 f8? that's a cool picture! I always wanted to take a good shot of the moon. but all i have is a 250mm :P

[Sinh Nhut Nguyen]

Shooting the moon is easy, shoot in manual mode...set your aperture at f/5.6 or f/8 ISO 100...increase the shutter speed if your moon is blown out, decrease the speed ifit's too dark, check your LCD after every shot. Test shoot the moon now and practice for next full moon [:D]

[Colin]

Also, try to shoot it when it's high up, if you can. Goes through less atmosphere.





Saw a cool blood red moon a few nights ago in Kentucky. Unfortunately, it's blurry (atmosphere)


This is a cropped and downsampled image I got with a 30d at a 400 f/5.6 with a 2x extender. I don't know how to look at the metadata on photobucket, but I think I was doing like ISO 800, 1/250s, f/16, or something... I'd like to try Nate's settings on a clear day. The noise was significant. I wanted the fast shutter speed because even with the mirror lockup and remote release, I seemed to be having problems on most of the shots (didn't have live view either :( )


http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n87/boujiluge/2008-12-10_RMsMoon_0001800x800.jpg


Full crop of image....


You can see the noise issues in this.


http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n87/boujiluge/2008-12-10_RMsMoon_0001100Crop-782x.jpg

[Jon Ruyle]

Also, try to shoot it when it's high up, if you can. Goes through less atmosphere.


Good point, Colin. That's important.


One more thing. When a lens has a significantly different temperature from the surrounding air, it causes an unsteady image. This isn't really a factor with little lenses, but a 500mm f/4 might require some "cool down time" if brought from a warm house to the cold outside. I don't know exactly how much, but I'd try waiting at least an hour with the 500mm f/4 and a 25 degree (F) drop to see if there is any improvement.

[waltgary]

You guys/girls are good. I printed all replys to this post and worked on it when I could. Finally, using the information obtained here I was able to get a pretty good shot one morning. More importantly, I was able to determine that what I thought was spot metering wasn't, that mirror lock up is what I want vs bulb, that I need to cool the lens, etc(I know, read the manual better). What matters to me is that I was able to get some shots like what's been posted here. Ok, maybe not that good but I'm still evolving. The goal is to get one that I can print to 13x19 and hang on my wall.


This reply is simply to thank everyone who took the time to help me. It's genuinely appreciated. gary





/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Components.UserFiles/00.00.00.27.20/IMG_5F00_2348-post.jpg

[Jon Ruyle]

Nice one, Gary. You chose a good-looking phase. You must have woken up pretty early in the morning to capture that :)


Is it with the 500mm? Do you mind posting shutter, iso, etc?

[elmo_2006]

/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Components.UserFiles/00.00.00.28.98/Canon-70_2D00_200mm-2.8L-IS-USM.jpg


Camera: Canon EOS 450D, Lens 70-200 2.8 IS USM, mounted on tripod, no mirror lock up, using remote cable release!


Exp: 1/4000 @ 4.5, 0EV, Exp Program: Manual, Metering: Spot, ISO: 400, Focal Length: 200mm


Cropped and applied grey scale to the image. I'm obviously out this 'threads' league!


[:D]

[waltgary]

Thanks Jon. Nothing chosen about the phase, just dumb luck at 0430 CST. I usually walk the dogs about 0500 so it's not that early to me. It's interesting in that I tried some on the back suspended wood deck and just my heartbeat while looking through the viewfinder (not touching the camera or tripod) would shake the lens. Yeah, I've got to get my hypertension under control. Anyways, I went to the front concrete step and shot with mirror locked up and IR remote. I've never used the live view you suggestedso that's another step for me to take. I did shoot with the 500/f4 without the extender but may try adding the 1.4x next time. What you see is pretty heavily cropped so I think that if my goal is to print out at 13x19 I'd need a few more pixels to look sharp. Here's what this one was shot at:


5d MkII


500/f4 with IS


AV mode, f/4


1/3200 shutter speed


0 EV


800 ISO


IS activated

[Jon Ruyle]

Did you try a lower shutter speed (with lower iso and/or stopped down a bit)? Seems like on a tripod, 1/100 or so should be no problem.


Proof is in the pudding though. :)

[trosky]

this was my attempt yesterday while there was a RING around it pretty cool. Used a rebel t1i and a canon 70-200 2.8, no IS, MF, I dont have a remote so i put a timer shot, lol. On tripod, doing about F8 and like 1/60, iso200, at 200mm but dont take my word for it, i dont remember the settings correctly. I only cropped it photoshop, nothing extra. and this is a pic uploaded to facebook, which is the #1 destroyer of pictures, lol.


So elmo, im out of this league also. lol





http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs058.snc3/14564_350969475306_615275306_9759767_4980895_n.jpg

[Stu]

One problem with shooting with a long lens is that your movement, ANDD that of the moon in motion mean that you need a fast enough shutter speed. I use various techniques but always shoot in Manual mode and change shutter speeds to get the best exposure. f/8 or lower, ISO 400 are my usual start points.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2428/4053736040_010a47cc1e_o.jpg

[Mark Elberson]

Here's my 1st attempt at a moon shot. It was much more difficult than I imagined to achieve critical focus! This crop makes up about 10% of the entire frame. Comments appreciated :-)


Here's the goods:


Focus was done manually using 10X Live View


Canon EOS 50D, Manual Exposure, 1/1600, f/8, ISO 400, Tripod Mounted EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM


/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Components.UserFiles/00.00.00.26.13/2009_2D00_12_2D00_01_2D00_20_2D00_53_2D00_00.JPG

[Jon Ruyle]

Very nice, Mark.


If you think getting focus right was tough with live view, imagine how tough it was before live view (not to mention shooting dim non-moon night sky objects).

[Eric Smith]

The original question mentioned shooting the full moon. As you can see in photos posted in this thread, partial moon photos tend to be more interesting. The most visually striking part is along the terminator, the edge between the moon's night and day. This is where craters have dramatic light and shadow. Full moon photos tend to look flat and featureless.