black and white in camera? / program mode

[mpphoto12]

wjile in the city with some friends i noticed one of my friends feature on his d300. He had a black and white effect in the camera and he used it along with program mode all day. The pictures came out awesome. For some time i have been searching for a new camera. I was wondering if any canon camera has the feature to do black and white before PP. Also as far as program mode goes... i have noticed it is not very effective on lower end cameras like my XT but very good on higher end cameras. Would a 1d series such as the 1d mark II or the 50D have a better program mode? thanks

[Rodger]

I may be horribly wrong, but I think any camera that says it has "Picture styles" has the capability to shoot "monochromatic" pictures. Most of the newer models have picture styles. My buddy's XSi has them. My 20D does not. lol.


I can't offer any insight into the Program mode question. Sorry.


-Rodger

[mpphoto12]

ok thanks you i was hoping so becasue i like the 50D very much and that would be a good feature

[Keith B]

50D does. My 40D does as does my 5DmkII.


I use it in combination of shooting RAWs. So I can have a preview of how all the elements are working together in BW. Then I convert the RAW file to BW later.

[mpphoto12]

ok cool thanks! would the 1D Mark II have it by any chance? what difference could there be between the quality of the pictures chot on program on the 1d series vs. the 50D?

[Chuck Lee]

mpphoto12,


The black and white process on most Canon cameras are going to be desaturated jpegs. I don't think you'll see a different black and white output from camera model to camera model. The differences will be in how the internal Digic I,II,III, or IV process handles the tones of the recorded colors. The black and white output is a simple desaturation of the color leaving only grayscale. The Nikon D300 may do more but I imagine that it is more a function of a boosted mid tone curve than a special black & white conversion. Nikon has a tendency to boost the mid tones of an image to create a perception of higher dynamic range. Canon has a tendency to leave it alone. Black and whites out of a Canon camera will probably look more dark gray rather than mid tone boosted black and white. This is a simple thing to emulate in post processing, especially if you shoot Canon RAW.


The D300 is Nikon's newest offering and I'm sure it has some great bells and whistles. Progam mode is just a camera setting. Most Canon cameras have this"P" mode. basically, when set to "Program mode" the camera chooses an aperature based on the scene and the depth of fieldit feels the scene requires. It then sets an acceptable shutter speed, (sometime too low) based on the ISO you have the camera set too. Digital SLRs have had this "p" mode for along time. My 2000 model Olympus C4040 had program mode. Some film cameras had this mode. It's nothing more than an camera based auto aperture/exposure setting. In normal daylight it is a very consistent and convienent mode.

[Keith B]

mpphoto12,


The black and white process on most Canon cameras are going to be desaturated jpegs. I don't think you'll see a different black and white output from camera model to camera model. The differences will be in how the internal Digic I,II,III, or IV process handles the tones of the recorded colors. The black and white output is a simple desaturation of the color leaving only grayscale. The Nikon D300 may do more but I imagine that it is more a function of a boosted mid tone curve than a special black & white conversion. Nikon has a tendency to boost the mid tones of an image to create a perception of higher dynamic range. Canon has a tendency to leave it alone. Black and whites out of a Canon camera will probably look more dark gray rather than mid tone boosted black and white. This is a simple thing to emulate in post processing, especially if you shoot Canon RAW.






You can choose different filter effects though, like Red, Green, Yellow or Orange.

[IAMB]

ok cool thanks! would the 1D Mark II have it by any chance? what difference could there be between the quality of the pictures chot on program on the 1d series vs. the 50D?
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1D mkII doesn't have picture styles... the 1D IIN does. As far as setting the mkII to shoot in B+W, it won't as far as I can tell (I've been trying to figure out if it's possible on mine and the best I can do is really low saturation). If you want black and white with a 1D II, like others have said it's no big deal to shoot normally and then play with the image until you're happy during processing.

[Chuck Lee]

Keith,


Thanks for the additional info.



You can choose different filter effects though, like Red, Green, Yellow or Orange.


Just for the record. Which bodies have this feature?


1)40D has this feature. Wow! I didn't know that. I shoot RAW so I never thought to look.


2)5D does not have this feature and the manual says "To obtain natural-looking, black and white images, set a suitable white balance."


That's funny, because in post that's exactly what I do if converting to black and white. A cooler color temp applies a blue filter, a warmer color temp. applies a yellow - red filter, and the color deflection applies a green or magenta filter. The combinations are endless.

[Keith B]

My buddy has the first 5D and I'm almost certain his has monochrome and filters. Maybe it was a firmware update.

[Chuck Lee]

My buddy has the first 5D and I'm almost certain his has monochrome and filters. Maybe it was a firmware update.
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Nope, Ive got the latest firmware on my 5D and no filters like the 40D. Even custom white balance has no effect as far as I can tell.


So, what other models have this feature?


3) 50D - I'm sure


4) 5D MkII -I'm sure


Next? Any of the XXXD bodies have the B&amp;W filter?

[Keith B]

Well I did say "almost certain." I remember his mirror fell out and he sent it in and Canon updated his firmware and he was blown away that he now had ISO L (50). I couldn't believe he didn't know how to update his own firmware. I thought he also found he had filters in monochrome. He must have just been marveling at the feature in my 40D. It sucks getting old.

[Daniel Browning]

I remember his mirror fell out and he sent it in and Canon updated his firmware and he was blown away that he now had ISO L (50).


I hope he's not using it. ISO 50 is just ISO 100 with 1 additional stop of blown highlights.

[Jarhead5811]

Leave it to Mr. Browning to keep pointing at the man behind the curtain [:P]. (Not that there is anything wrong with that.)

[Chuck Lee]

It sucks getting old


I resemble that remark.........[:D]


Oh, and thanks Daniel for reminded us how great it is to have ISO 50 on our 5Ds.......[:D] You know it does work when you don't havea 1 stop neutral density filter with you. It is good for some things.

[Daniel Browning]

Oh, and thanks Daniel for reminded us how great it is to have ISO 50 on our 5Ds......./emoticons/emotion-2.gif You know it does work when you don't havea 1 stop neutral density filter with you. It is good for some things.


Actually, ISO 50 does not help at all. The camera says "ISO 50", but behind the scenes Canon actually set "ISO 100 and hidden +1 EC". You would get the exact same exposure and raw file if you set ISO 100 and +1 EC yourself, the only difference is that it's not hidden, and what you're doing is obvious. The real effect of the ISO 50 setting is hidden and not obvious.


Of course, everyone knows that adding +1 EC is going to blow one stop of highlights (compared to 0 EC). Fewer people are aware that ISO 50 does the exact same thing, because it doesn't make sense for Canon to do things behind your back like that. But unfortunately they do.


I can only think of one good reason to use ISO 50 for raw: if you already have ISO 100 +2 EC and you actually want ISO 100 +3 EC. (Personally I've never found myself in that circumstance.)

[Keith B]

I remember his mirror fell out and he sent it in and Canon updated his firmware and he was blown away that he now had ISO L (50).


I hope he's not using it. ISO 50 is just ISO 100 with 1 additional stop of blown highlights.






He actually does use it. I remember him giving me images for the magazine and looking at the EXIF and seeing it say ISO 50.


I actually used it testing some lighting the other day, just because I was too lazy to change the 3 flash set up down a stop each. I think that was the first time I had used it. I knew it was just software pulling(?), but it was good to let me know that whatever my settings were I just had to bump them down a stop when it counted.