Could the 60D actually turn into a 7D by Aug 19th?

[Chuck Lee]

That would be cool...[H]


I know all you 40 and 50D owners are biting at the bit to upgrade you APS-C bodies but wouldn't it be cool for Canon to launch a FF 7D with the specs listed on CanonRumors? The latest rumor of it showing up in BestBuy's inventory at $2699.00 must be from someonein LA $$. If the price were under $2000.00,I'd be at least the 1003rd person in line for it. I would upgradeone of my 40'sas well asmy 5D.


* FF
* 3″ OLED
* 12.7 MP
* ISO100-25600
* Digic IV
* Wide DR mode, sRAW
* 9 focus points (+6)
* 3.4 FPS
* Pentaprism, same as 5dII
* No video
* No flash
* $1999 target


It would be the lowest price FF on the market with all of the features of the 5D MkII less 9 megapixels and video. That would be awesome for those of us on a budget.


Tick Tock, just watch that clock..............[;)]

[Joel]

My head is still spinning from reading all those comments on CR.com.


Only time will tell what the exact specs will be :)

[hotsecretary]

For the price, personally I'd rather save a bit longer and get the more MP and the HD Video, but that's just me.

[Daniel Browning]

This rumor must have been started by one of the folks that thinks removing megapixels and video would reduce the price. That's incorrect. Sensor cost scales principally with area, a new design with larger pixels will save absolutely nothing compared to a new design with smaller pixels. 5D1-sized pixels and lack of video would decrease market penetration, lower expected sales, and therefore require amortization over fewer units. With the same fixed development costs, that would result in a much higher price, I'd guess $3,499 instead of $1,999.


We'd all love to see full frame sensors come down in price, but the unfortunate reality is that the manufacturing cost is not going down very fast. The 5D1 was a big breakthrough at just $3,000. After three years we're down to $2,700. At this rate it will take 7 more years to reach $1,999 for a new full frame camera. Removing features will not help at all, unless the cost of the feature (e.g. $10/camera for video) is less than the lost margin from the reduction in sales (e.g. 30% on 10,000 units).

[Chuck Lee]

With the same fixed development costs, that would result in a much higher price, I'd guess $3,499 instead of $1,999


Maybe that's why the supposedBestBuy store inventory price was $2699. That price certainly wouldn't indicate a 60D style model so what would $2699 buy in a full frame that is the same retail price as the 5D MkII?


Does anyone know or care to speculate on the number of units sold of the 50D andthe 5D MkII? From the response I've seen on the forums I'd guess 2-4X the sale of 5D MkIIs.


Daniel, as you said in theother post a release of a 60D would be the "ho-hum" equivalent to the 30D over the 20D unless Canon has planned to release a much more professionally equipped APS-C camera to counter the release of the Nikon D300. So far that doesn't fit with the rumor clues. A 3D or 7D does.

[Maleko]

Surely if this new body is going to be a 7D or whatever xD body, wont that mean it wont actually be a replacement for the 50D, but more a new line in the xD series? therefore a steaper price tag? Doesn't quite seem right to me.

[Dave Johnston]

For the price, personally I'd rather save a bit longer and get the more MP and the HD Video, but that's just me.






here here.... the extra 600 wouldn't seem like too much if I was already spending 2 grand.

[Daniel Browning]

That price certainly wouldn't indicate a 60D style model so what would $2699 buy in a full frame that is the same retail price as the 5D MkII?


Nothing, IMHO. All the 5D2 money is going to the sensor, and there's little leftover for anything else.

If you take a 50D sensor and put in a cheaper body, you get the 500D and a savings of $400 (35%). But what if they put the 5D2 sensor in a 500D body? Would it save $400 too? I don't think so. I think the reason why the price is so much lower on the 500D is because the market for a $730 camera is significantly larger than a $1130 camera, and competition is fiercer, so they have wider amortization and accept lower per-unit margins on the $730 camera. The difference between $2700 and $2300 is much smaller, so changing bodies wouldn't result in the same $400 savings.

Even if it did save a full $400 like the 50D->500D, that's still only 15%. At that point, I think most buyers who are already spending $2300 would probably just pay the extra amount to have their pricey sensor in at least a mid-range body instead of the very low-end.



Does anyone know or care to speculate on the number of units sold of the 50D and the 5D MkII? From the response I've seen on the forums I'd guess 2-4X the sale of 5D MkIIs.


I don't know, but I would guess around 4X. For every 50D I think there's probably 4X sales of even cheaper APS-C cameras like the 500D/1000D; a huge gulf between APS-C and FF. I think forums bias towards the higher end, though. (I think that in real life, some photographers don't even use a computer, and of the ones who do, only a small percent of those read forums, and only a small minority of those actually post, and I think they tend to be the hig end users.)



Daniel, as you said in the other post a release of a 60D would be the "ho-hum" equivalent to the 30D over the 20D unless Canon has planned to release a much more professionally equipped APS-C camera to counter the release of the Nikon D300.


A professional APS-C to compete with the D300 would be a big departure from their previous market segmentation strategy, but I think it would sell like hot cakes, so I'm hopeful Canon will smell the money and change for that reason.



So far that doesn't fit with the rumor clues. A 3D or 7D does.


I'm certain Canon will release a $1200 1.6X, and they will probably call it a 60D. A 3D or 7D of some kind is possible, but I have zero confidence in the rumor sites to predict it.

[Chuck Lee]

I'm certain Canon will release a $1200 1.6X, and they will probably call it a 60D. A 3D or 7D of some kind is possible, but I have zero confidence in the rumor sites to predict it.


Well Put.


I've still got my fingers crossed for a more affordable FF. [:D]

[peety3]

Those specs look like a refreshed 5D. Except we already have one.


My two cents: just stop trying to predict the future. Let Canon announce what they have, comment on it at CanonRumors, and buy it if you like it.

[MrGreenBug]

So, did the 60D turned into a 7D? [;)]

[Chuck Lee]

Not today. There were alot of Canon P&S anouncements including the G11. The Canonrumors site had an inside scoop from someone at Bestbuy who saw the inventory placeholders for all of these cameras released today. They alsoreported a placeholder for the 7D. Another report said that a sales rep released info that the anouncement for the DSLR was coming Sept 1. No reports of a 60D.


Jarhead5811 discovered the placeholder for the New Tamron 17-50 f2.8 Di II VC lens over at adorama. The Tamron USA site shows no mention. I guess they're all gearing up for next big photo show.

[Colin]

What, did the 6D already happen? Why the jump to 7?

[Daniel Browning]

What, did the 6D already happen? Why the jump to 7?
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Because that's how they roll. You can look at the history of Canon film cameras to get an idea:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_5 ("http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_5)


7D would indicate an advanced amateur camera somewhere between the 5D2 and 50D. 3D would indicate almost-professional between the 5D and 1D.


But this is marketing, so anything can happen.

[apersson850]

As I see it (I'm stubborn here), Canon's current line-up runs along two tracks, as soon as you go above the entry level cameras (1000D and 500D). Then there's the speed track, populated by the 50D and the 1D Mark III, and beside that the resolution track, currently with the 5D Mark II and the 1Ds Mark III.


The models sitting beside each other on the two tracks have a big difference in cost, but there could at least be space for another level between the 50D and the 1D Mark III on the speed track, even if an evolution of the 50D is introduced too.


It's less obvious to me if they can make a full frame that much cheaper that there is any room for a new model between the 500D and the 5D Mark II? That would be like a 3 frames/second 12-15 megapixel FF model at a cost not much above the 50D, to make sense.


First a 60D and a 7D above it, both along the speed (which so far implies cropped bodies) track, then a new set of 1D(s) Mark IV (I'm not Japanses, so I can live with "four") cameras and then perhaps another full frame in the resolution track, below the 1Ds Mark IV, but perhaps still above the 5D Mark II. This is where the 3D comes in.


Sounds as a reasonable model strategy to me. Time will tell how Canon see this.

[Chuck Lee]

7D would indicate an advanced amateur camera somewhere between the 5D2 and 50D


According to the "rumor sites" the 60D is turning into a 7D. We'll know sometime next week. The latest rumors spec it as a amature sports photographer's dream machine. It appears so far to be a 1.6X not a 1.3X or 1X.


I know some don't like the rumor weed, but I think speculation is sort of entertaining.

[hotsecretary]

If they don't announce one that's FF, I guess I'll be getting me a 5DII :)

[Daniel Browning]

We'd all love to see full frame sensors come down in price, but the unfortunate reality is that the manufacturing cost is not going down very fast. The 5D1 was a big breakthrough at just $3,000. After three years we're down to $2,700. At this rate it will take 7 more years to reach $1,999 for a new full frame camera.


I was wrong. Sony just announced the A850, which is practically the exact same camera as the A900 (lesser viewfinder and slower frame rate), but $700 cheaper: MSRP is $2,000!


I hope this starts a price war for full frame cameras!

[Chuck Lee]

Another interesting "twist" in sensor trends is the release of the G11. Maybe Canon has been listening after all.


I was hoping that the 7D would be a stripped down version of the 5DMkII. Something like a 12-16 mp FF sensor less the live view and video. Sort of an enhanced 5D Mk1 at the 2K price point. Oh well. Looks like they're goingthe extremely enhanced APS-C route. That's not a bad thing either.

[hotsecretary]

I doubt they'd strip LiewView out ... it's in the 40D+ is it not? Don't see much advantage of them doing that $$ wise.


Now the sensor that's totally different.



But I do agree/hope it does cause the MKII to drop in price if they don't announce another FF besides the possible 1Ds MK IV.


As much as I'd love a 1Ds, I've been eyeballing the 5DII a lot lately and just waiting for news to be "official" on the lens I'm interested in and any possible new FF at the $2-3k price range.

[Chuck Lee]

I find it entertaining that you can buy an excellent quality used 1Ds MkII for the same price or less than a 5D MKII. Hmmmm?

[hotsecretary]

I find it entertaining that you can buy an excellent quality used 1Ds MkII for the same price or less than a 5D MKII. Hmmmm?
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SHUSH! Keep those evil words out of my head! :)