Let's Talk Humming Birds

[bob williams]

Recently, I have become obsessed with trying to shoot humming birds (with a camera of course). During this process I have realized several things, but...Unfortunately they haven't led to any National Geographic quality shots.


Lesson One: with a 50D and a 100-400 (Set at 400) at Minimum focus distance--the bird still only fills about 1/3 the frame.


Lesson Two: Shutter speed sync set at 250 with a 580 exII flash is still way to slow to freeze motion-----Don't fret----Flash still works great at shutter speed 2500 at this distance (about 7 feet)---I didn't know this until I tried.


Lesson Three: I don't care how fast your camera focuses---its not fast enough unless you preset focus---then pray the bird moves into focus.


Lesson Four: Don't bother with high frame rates-----its kinda like a machine gun---If you don't get em with the first shot, the rest are wasted bullets.


Lesson Five: Humming birds tolerate big cameras, Fat guys on Ladders and will even eat from your hand----But they don't like the flash. Each time the flash goes off, I am stuck on the ladder for another 5 minutes waiting for the birds to return.


Lesson Six: This time of year (August) the flowers are gone and the birds are hungry. In May, I may have 3 or 4 birds around the feeder---in August, that number has grown to 20 or moreand they are still hard to shoot.


Lesson Seven: Don't bother with meters---go manual and experiment---start with shooting the feeder at high shutter speeds and flash, then get the background right. Finally, the flash seems to catch the bird---but you may have to set the flash at +1 or +2.


Lesson Eight: My wife said I wouldn't give out her Bird (feeder) recipe, But I am telling you----it works very well--when she is not looking over my shoulder---I'll talk.


OK, this is what I have learned about shooting humming birds---Any suggestions or experiences from the rest of you on this topic would be appreciated.





Thanks,





Bob

[Joel Bookhammer]

Well I dont have any good advice, but if you would like I have an interesting story I live in Central Pennsylvania and have had a hummingbird fly into my office 2 days in a row and perch on a cardboard calander....unfortunatly due to confidentiality no cameras allowed where I work....well except a coworkers cell phone.


But I agree with your lessons, Im not patient enough to stalk a hummingbird.


Thanks


Joel

[bob williams]

Well Joel, I do understand your delimma reagrding the camera and security--I road submarines for 10 years.----Hint---They are selling phones now with zoom and 3+ megapixels.--- Thanks for the reply





Bob

[Bill W]

Bob....first let me say; I share your obsession w/HBs, Ruby Throated HBs to be specific (that's all we have in New England, though there are occasional interlopers).


My equipment; 40D, 100-400, tripod, TC-80N3 release and a cut piece of wire coat hanger w/a business card attached.


Size; heavy crop and 100% enlargement





http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee23/bikejanitor/NoGorget.jpg





The HBs feed w/a a consistent pattern; sip, back out (2 to 3 inches) from source, in for another sip, back out....repeated a few times before leaving.


Set up; approximately 10 feet from feeder, attach business card to feeder (only 2 feeder ports available), live view focus on card then remove. Natural light, AV, shutter speed no lower than 200, keeping aperture no lower than 8 (as high as 13), ISO to keep shutter above 200 and metering close to center. I constantly check light to ensure staying w/in these settings. AI servo, high speed. I don't try to freeze the wings.


Flash; 580 EX ll, I only use this in the lowest of light situations. I posted some results earlier (search Bill W) asking for suggestions to handle the light wash out in their eyes. I needed to do a lot of PS to make it acceptable.


High frame rates; I find some of my 2nd and 3rd captures are better than the first.


Visits; I get 2 or 3 visits an hour in a garden specifically set up for HBs and butterflies. Boy, you're lucky!


Lighting; constantly checking and experimenting.


Food; 3.5 to 1, sugar and water, constantly changing feeder and contents to maintain cleanliness.


Shooting; PATIENCE!! Be flexible w/settings, experiment.


They are a challenge and just plain fun to watch.


Regards


Bill

[HiFiGuy1]

I just had an idea about food for the hummingbirds. Would you think it would be good to have a diluted honey solution? That would seem to be nearer to their natural food, which is flower nectar, no?


Bob,


I do want to hear the "secret formula" that your wife uses, too!





Also, since I am in the lens research mode right now (well fine, always), and I see that you guys are using 100-400 zooms racked out to 400, would I be better off going for the extra sharpness of a 400 prime like the f/5.6? Or is the versatility of the zoom so much better that it overcomes any sharpness advantage of the prime in this instance? Keep in mind I am NOT looking at the 400 f/2.8. [;)]

[Bill W]

HiFiGuy;


Never use honey and here's why;


A honey water solution served up in hummingbird feeders can quickly become toxic and deadly.
Honey rapidly ferments and also cultures a deadly bacterium. Contrary
to popular belief, honey is not "more natural" than the cane sugar that
is sold as white sugar. Honey has been chemically altered by honey
bees: it is flower nectar and whatever ever else the honey bee
ingested, digested, and spit back out again. Honey is nothing like the sucrose found in flower nectar and white sugar.


Plain white table sugar dissolved in water in a
four-to-one solution is about as close to real flower
nectar as you can get.



Here's a link if you want to read up on feeding HBs;


http://www.hummingbirds.net/feeders.html ("http://www.hummingbirds.net/feeders.html)


100-400 lens; I enjoy the versatility, this lens is on my camera 90% of the time when I'm outdoors.....I even use it for landscapes at sunrise and sunset.


Concerning the sharpness, the prime will always be sharper, but my capture above (w/my eyes and monitor) is sharp enough for me....and remember the photo is enlarged 100%.


Regards


Bill

[Fast Glass]

If youplan toshoot primarilybirdsI think you will be better served by the prime, like you said it will be racked out to 400mm 99% and it does better with extenders. Might as well gain the sharpness of the prime in your situation.


But that'smy $0.02. [;)]

[Sinh Nhut Nguyen]

I shoot hummers in the spring, starting from January to mid April here in So Cal. When I arrive at the location I usually walk around and pay attention fromfar awayto which flower the hummers frequent a lot and then I wait at that spot. The bird will fly away at first, but after a while it will come back. My primary lens is the 400 f/5.6L, next spring I'll try an extension tube with this to get closer than 11.5 fthttp://www.pscvn.org/members/308/5-12-2009_4-36-42_PM.jpg


http://www.pscvn.org/members/308/4-1-2009_2-55-08_PM.jpg


/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Components.UserFiles/00.00.00.23.33/Spring-is-in-the-air_2100_.jpg

[HiFiGuy1]

HiFiGuy;


Never use honey and here's why;


A honey water solution served up in hummingbird feeders can quickly become toxic and deadly. Honey rapidly ferments and also cultures a deadly bacterium. Contrary to popular belief, honey is not "more natural" than the cane sugar that is sold as white sugar. Honey has been chemically altered by honey bees: it is flower nectar and whatever ever else the honey bee ingested, digested, and spit back out again. Honey is nothing like the sucrose found in flower nectar and white sugar.


Plain white table sugar dissolved in water in a four-to-one solution is about as close to real flower nectar as you can get.


Here's a link if you want to read up on feeding HBs;


http://www.hummingbirds.net/feeders.html ("http://www.hummingbirds.net/feeders.html)


100-400 lens; I enjoy the versatility, this lens is on my camera 90% of the time when I'm outdoors.....I even use it for landscapes at sunrise and sunset.


Concerning the sharpness, the prime will always be sharper, but my capture above (w/my eyes and monitor) is sharp enough for me....and remember the photo is enlarged 100%.


Regards


Bill
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Bill,


Thanks for the quick education! I definitely don't want to harm the little beauties, so I'll avoid the honey. I still want to get the "secret recipe" from Bob just to see what he's talking about.

[Joel Eade]

Bob,


The key to freezing the wings in flight is to use the manual setting on your flash and reduce the output down to 1/16 or lower. This shortens the flash duration to something like 1/15,000 sec.


If you then set your aperature and shutter speed manually so that little or no ambient light is visible in your shot you will have an effectively exposed the image with the flash only at 1/15,000 sec or so. The only caveat is you may have to use multiple flashes to get a really bright exposure. I have a few shots using one 430 flash that are decent but more flashes would be better.


I'll post some once I fgure out how to do it (I'm a newbie in the group)


Joel Eade

[bob williams]

Ok Bill, Enough Showing off. Those pics are great, and now I am envious. I have avoided the high frame rates because the flash won't keep up, with your advice and the advice of others I'll readjust my technique and see what pops up.


Sorry for the late reply, I have been tied up with work.


Thanks,





Bob

[bob williams]

OK, OK, the secret recipe isn't really that secret, but works very well in moderation---Remember the birds still need the nutrition of flowers---but occasionally if you want just a little more activity around the feeder---Try a 50/50 mix of sugar and water. Make sure you heat the water first so the sugar completely dissolves--then load up that feeder. Also make sure you empty and refill the feeder regularly because that much sugar will draw buggs, bees etc. At the moment we have to refill the feeders every day. In the early morning and late evening we may have 15-20 birds hitting the feeders. Just for the birds health, I wouldn't recommend doing this more than once or twice a week---Maybe one of our birds experts could shed some light on whether or not this is too unhealthy for the birds??

[bob williams]

Thanks Joel---I'll give it a try

[bob williams]

Bill, Thanks again for the education--Like you my 100-400 is on my camera most of the time---but that kind of sharpness has eluded me. I have tried several different things to impprove it, (Including sending the lens back to canon and in-camera microadjustment) but I am just not seeing those kind of results---I'll continue to practice---





Thanks





Bob

[Bill W]

Bob.....I to had my doubts about my 100-400 when I first started shooting w/it. But after talking to some folks that use the 100-400, I discovered it wasn't the lens, it was the guy using it.


It's taken practice (lots of shots) and, like HBs, patience.....I'm still not satisfied w/my percentage of keepers, but hey, I'm retired (yeah, I had to rub it in) what else is there to do....oh yeah, cycling, golf, skiing, fishing and the list keeps growing much to my wife's chagrin. LOL


I'm going to mix up a new batch for the HBs tomorrow morning at 50/50 and I'll let you know if I get an increase in visits.


BTW....keep an eye on Sinh Nhut Nguyen's (Nate) work and tips.


Regards


Bill

[wickerprints]

I've got some shots of hummingbirds but I don't know what's wrong with the birds I have in my yard...they don't look anywhere near as nice as the ones shown in the photos. They're kinda scruffy looking, some missing feathers, etc. They're not shiny and iridescent like the ones here. I don't know why. :(





I don't know much about birds so I'm just guessing it has to do with species and time of year perhaps? Or maybe they're juveniles? I have no clue. I'll try to do more shots next week.

[Joel Eade]

This is a shot (heavily cropped) with a single on camera 430ex flash set to manual mode 1/16 output. Canon 40D, 70-200mmL 2.8 IS lens set at 98 mm, 1/200 sec., f10, iso500...one single on camera flash really isn't bright enough but you can see how reducing the flash output will shorten the pulse duration enough to freeze the wing motion. I'm saving up to get more flash units and a pocket wizard remote system and perhaps a bigger lens or lens extender....this example is just to illustrate a technique for freezing high speed events.


Joel Eade








/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Components.UserFiles/00.00.00.32.28/IMG_5F00_9559.jpg

[Joel Eade]

Here is another one with the same technique....I know these aren't technically great yet ...I need more light and more work on my skills but it gets the idea across for now.





Joel Eade/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Components.UserFiles/00.00.00.32.28/IMG_5F00_9619.jpg

[Bill W]

I disagree Joel....they look pretty darn good to me.


Sure there's a little technique work to be done, but, to me, it looks like you have the frozen wings (especially the first pic) technique down pretty good.

[Joel Eade]

Thanks Bill, I read about this technique on the internet and just had to try it even though I didn't have all the recommended gear to get the best results. I think with more light and better exposure I will be able to get greater detail with alot less noise, I think it would help to have 300 to 400 mm focal length as well so the bird would fill more of the frame. Hopefully I can acquire the extra gear I'm wanting before the summer is over.


<span style="color: #008000;"]www.rpphoto.com/howto/hummer/humguide1.asp ("http://www.rpphoto.com/howto/hummer/humguide1.asp)


Check this link to read more about it.

[Joel Eade]

Here's a shot using a multiple flash set-up. Canon 40D, 70-200mm 2.8L, camera mounted 430ex, 2 remote 430ex's fired with pocket wizards. All the flashes were manually set to 1/32 output. Camera settings: 1/200 sec, f13, iso 160. The background set up needs works but this illustrates the "freezing the wings" method pretty well./cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Components.UserFiles/00.00.00.32.28/IMG_5F00_2435.jpg

[Bill W]

Joel.....really nicely done....great detail.


I can see we're capturing our subject from different approaches.


I shoot w/natural light, normally trying to capture a "ghost" effect w/the wings as in the this first shot; f5.6, 1/160th (my slowest sharp head capture), ISO 800, 40D/100-400 (360mm at approximately 10' from feeder). This one was captured shooting West w/filtered light coming thru the forest.


http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee23/bikejanitor/backlitHB.jpg


This 2nd shot was taken at approximately 20' in mid morning bright light behind me. My garden goes into complete shade at about 11am. Capture; f7.1, 1/2000, ISO 640, 350mm


http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee23/bikejanitor/juviemale-1.jpg


How far away to set up from your subjects?


Regards


Bill

[Joel Eade]

Bill,


The feeder you see in the picture is on our living room window and there is japanese maple tree close to it (3 ft. or so) I usually position myself between that tree and the house. Sort of hidden from view until the hummers approach the feeder. I am probably 4-5 feet away. The remote flash units on light stands are even closer...maybe 2 feet or so. The feeder is shaded by the tree and the eave of the house almost all day. This actually helps with the flash technique (ie less ambient light) but not so good for natural light. The flash really brings out the iridescence in a way that does lookunatural but beautiful at the same time. Iwant to try some small diffusers or soft boxes to see if I can get a little more natural look. (always wanting to buymore gear) I may also try to hang a flower or plant to give a better background.


I tried natural light shots as well but I'm fascinated with this flash technique of freezing high speed events. The natural light shots look more like a hummingbird to the naked eye. The 2nd shot you posted is cool, the color is more realistic and of course the wings are blurred as we normally see them.I like that type of shot too butI can't seem to resist the curiosity of trying to capture what the eye cannot see.


Joel

[Joel Eade]

Bill, Here is one from last summer without flash, this was also with the 40D 70-200mm 2.8L at 1/2000 sec. f8 ISO 640,/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Components.UserFiles/00.00.00.32.28/IMG_5F00_9490.jpg.