7D Real!

[ShutterbugJohan]

Check out DPReview.com ("http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090105canoneos7d.asp) It is a good as expected. "Weathersealing as good as the EOS-1N."

[Jon Ruyle]

Wow!

[lculpin]

I am PUMPED... I was debating whether to do weddings with the 5dII and then later get a 1dIII or stick with my 50D that I have right now, but the 7D is PERFECT for what I want.... and they even built in a flash commander! Will wonders never cease ;)

[Sinh Nhut Nguyen]

Who's taking pre-order now?I'm excited, but I need to see the review of the high ISO performance. I'm a nature photographer, I've been a long time fan of the 1.6x body, I'm really excited about the 7D new focus system.

[Jon Ruyle]

I didn't see anything about price, though.

[Jon Ruyle]

Who's taking pre-ordere now?


Amazon is. $1699.99. Seems pretty reasonable.

[Daniel Browning]

Awesome! The ultimate birding and sports Canon and finally something to rival the Nikon D300s.

19-point AF from the 1D series
Integrated speedlight transmitter
Dual DIGIC and 8 FPS
Environmental protection equivalent to the
legendary EOS–1N
1.0x for the first time.
Customizable viewfinder overlays.
True NTSC frame rates (29.97)
24p



I am seriously considering this as a complement to my 5D2.

[Todd Ovick]

I'm excited, but I need to see the review of the high ISO performance.
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>








I will have to agree with Nate!

[Jon Ruyle]

19-point AF from the 1D series





I didn't see it say this anywhere, or any mention of 26 additional "hidden" points. As far as I could tell, it was just a 19 point (all cross type) af. Did I miss something?

[Sinh Nhut Nguyen]

Whatever it is, I'd like to see Bryant's review before I drop the cash [:D]

[Daniel Browning]

I didn't see it say this anywhere, or any
mention of 26 additional "hidden" points. As far as I could tell, it
was just a 19 point (all cross type) af. Did I miss something?


My bad. It only says "EOS-1 series", not "EOS-1D series":



The AF system has been completely redesigned using the same architecture as the EOS-1 series...

[crosbyharbison]

Sounds like a great camera at a previously unused price point.


If I were you daniel I'd have my 16-35 on my 5d and my 70-200 on the 7d. Sounds like an excellent combo.

[gbc]

Gonna wait for the reviews, but I think my XSi is on the way out. A bit bummed that it uses CF cards instead of SD though. I love my flip-down USB SD cards.


And wireless flash control? That's pretty nifty. And finally geotagging.

[Jorundr-Jorgensen]

This will be an excellent secondary body beside the 5D, wonderful!

[Maleko]

wow, this is something that wannabe 5D owners will defo go for! Decent price for it as well! Gotta love the 1.0x framing!

[cian3307]

Are we going to see the demise of the 40D and 50D? I'll have to keep an eye on the 50D price and snap one up if it falls a few 100 euros.

[Maleko]

Would be a shame if they did!


IMO, they fit nicely inbetween the xxx(x)D models and the xD models. MAYBE a 60D will be round the corner thats all hush hush and got lost in translation of the 7D? :P

[Oren]

Well I don't really care for most of the new features, but weather sealing?!!? errr I'm so mad! it's a shame that not all SLRs are weather sealed - they all should be if you ask me, but it's even more shame that the XXD bodies aren't! [8o|]


cian, I don't think that's going to happen, there's still a $600 difference between the 50D and the new 7D - that's $600 which you could buy a 70-200 f/4 L with for instance.

[Chuck Lee]

Whooop! There it is!!..............[:D]


Looks like a nice step forward.

[Sean Setters]

You know, the 5D Mark II always looked nice, but it simply wasn't the camera for me. I love my 50D, and now have 2 EF-S lenses I feel I can't give up. Then the 7D is announce...I really, really like the specs on this baby. Right now I'm trying to decide whether to sell my 50D to help finance the new purchase or else buy the 7D and use the 50D as a backup body (my XTi has been on loan to a friend since I got the 50D).


Decisions, decisions, decisions...

[Benjamin]

Great! Nikon D300s finally killed. Hands down. :)

[jimr]

Reading the specs and all I can say is wow.


They really put a lot of stuff inside a small body.


I can not wait until some real world testing is done to see how it stacks up.

[musickna]

I know where you are coming from on this, Sean. I also have two good EF-S lenses (the 17-55mm f/2.8 and the 10-22mm wide angle), but I did make the decision to go with the 5D Mark II.


I don't regret this at all - it's a wonderful camera, but I found myself continuing to use my old 40D in conjunction with the EF-S lenses as well as the 5D. Now I finally have an option to get a really good APS-C camera that looks like it is going to have speed and auto-focusing capabilities almost as good as those previously only seen in the 1D series.


So between these two cameras, it's hard to see me having any real future need for a 1D camera and I can make full use of all my existing lenses. This is very good for my budget and my photography. :)

[Benjamin]

Are we going to see the demise of the 40D and 50D? I'll have to keep an eye on the 50D price and snap one up if it falls a few 100 euros.
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>





The 7D is a great camera in terms of what we can do now with technology. It's something that makes people say "wow". I respect the technology that Canon has put into the camera.


But practically speaking though, the 7D is pretty much like a 50D made faster and added video. On paper the 7D is in every way a little bit better than the 50D in order to become a Nikon D300s killer; however, I doubt if any of these improvements over the 50D can actually make a photo look a lot nicer. In other words, I can hardly imagine that the 7D is going to make a huge leap forward from the 50D on some of the key performance measures such as AF speed &amp; accuracy, IQ, frame rate...


Would people think about the 7D like this though? - "Wow nice! Great job Canon! But I think I can do 95% of the things with my 50D." Or, it's like this - "Wow, great technology! But what if i can find a good 1D III used for just a few hundred dollars more? Or I can get a great condition 1D IIN right away, could I be more satisfied with these 1-series toys?"


Back to your question, I think the 40D and 50D will remain to be popular since they are not far away from the 7D and they're sold at very reasonable prices. (PS: I think at $1699 the 7D is a lot more of a deal than the D300s at $100 higher!) If I'm the buyer with a budget, I'll get the 50D instead and save the money for some better optics. My 50D combined with all my big L lenses will for sure outrun a 7D with that 15-85 [:D]


Just my thoughts, + &amp; - comments all welcome.

[Oren]

Well put Benjamin, you pretty much said everything that I thought of [Y]

[peety3]

You know, the 5D Mark II always looked nice, but it simply wasn't the camera for me. I love my 50D, and now have 2 EF-S lenses I feel I can't give up. Then the 7D is announce...I really, really like the specs on this baby. Right now I'm trying to decide whether to sell my 50D to help finance the new purchase or else buy the 7D and use the 50D as a backup body (my XTi has been on loan to a friend since I got the 50D).





As I've strongly suggested to others, don't sell the 50D. If anything, sell the XTi. Backup body is so important in so many situations.

[Sean Setters]

The two things that are pulling me toward the 7D are video and on-board ETTL control. Those are very nifty features.


That said, I'm not overwhelmed by the ISO performance (although DPReview's sample shots rarely make a camera look like a fantastic performer). I think they're purshing the reasonable limits of the APS-C sized sensor. I'll have to wait for Bryan's conclusions on this one.

[Jon Ruyle]

I can hardly imagine that the 7D is going to make a huge leap forward from the 50D on some of the key performance measures such as AF speed &amp; accuracy, IQ, frame rate...


Would people think about the 7D like this though? - "Wow nice! Great job Canon! But I think I can do 95% of the things with my 50D." Or, it's like this - "Wow, great technology! But what if i can find a good 1D III used for just a few hundred dollars more? Or I can get a great condition 1D IIN right away, could I be more satisfied with these 1-series toys?"





I agree. When you see these specs and start to drool, it isn't a bad idea to stop and think, "how much better will this make my pictures?" For me, I think the answer depends more on autofocus speed and accuracy than anything else. Will it be closer to the 50D or to the 1D? If the latter, the 1DIV will have to be something special to demand a large premium over this camera. 18mp at 8fps is pretty fast.

[clemmb]

Download some sample photos


Samples ("http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7d/)

[Dumien]

is anyone going to buy it for me? please? I want one sooooo badly!! oh, a 50D would be just fine too ;) hahaha


no, seriously, i totally love this camera...I think that I might even go for it, if I had the money...gosh...


and the other problem is that Amazon seems to have some problem with my country, they would only ship books and music to italy...haha oh well... :(

[Benjamin]

Download some sample photos


Samples ("http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7d/)
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>





Let's also see Bryan's opinion on this one later. 18MP on APS-C? I want to see if that can get me more resolution than noise. Personally I need 18mp resolution once or twice per year. [:)]


Daniel Browning - How many pixel do you think is still reasonable for APS-C? In other words, at what resolution do you think we'd better stop and focus on doing something else at this format? (e.g. try to reduce noise rather than increasing pixel) I think the current 15-18mp is quite enough already considering one may only need 1MP for internet and 15MP to print to 11x16'!


Thanks!

[Dallasphotog]

Since I'm probably not in the market for this body, having just bought the 5DMKII, it's more interesting to speculate what this means for the next 1D upgrades. The 1DMKIII is a tad faster at 10fps, but gives up a lot of resolution to this new camera. Should we expect the MKIV to debut with 30 megapixels, 3 processors and 12 fps???


It looks like the 7D will be a very nice camera for the semi-pro sports shooters out there.

[clemmb]

<div style="CLEAR: both"]



I think the current 15-18mp is quite enough already considering one may only need 1MP for internet and 15MP to print to 11x16'!



</div>


I agree. I am making 24x30 prints from my 12.8MP and they are fantastic. I am most interested in the AF improvements. I wish canon could have made this improvement in the 5DmkII.

[clemmb]

Should we expect the MKIV to debut with 30 megapixels, 3 processors and 12 fps???





Thats what I am looking for. Oh,if I could only afford it when it comes.

[Jon Ruyle]

Daniel Browning - How many pixel do you think is still reasonable for APS-C? In other words, at what resolution do you think we'd better stop and focus on doing something else at this format? (e.g. try to reduce noise rather than increasing pixel)


I think Daniel has made his views on this subject pretty clear. [:)]


For some uses, 1mp is enough. For others, we're not even close to having enough resolution.

[Dumien]

after the stupid message before, i'm going to give my real opinion on this body:


I really like the fps, the crop, the AF and the built-in flash trigger. Why? Because I'm mainly a sports photographer, and i'm usually stuck in low light, so better AF is really cool. As for the flash trigger, that is because I'm personally interested in getting into lighting and that feature would be really useful to me.


As for the MP and all that stuff, I'm not really concerned: people say that the XSi is quite "unusable" abo ISO 400, but when i'm shooting at ISO 800 and 1600, which is quite often, I'm not finding any real trouble with noise. Plus, Daniel always says that it's just a myth that smaller pixels mean increased noise. So that's just not a concern of mine.


Too bad it would only take CF cards, because i only have SD cards for the XSi...but that won't be a problem. THe REAL concern is price..$1699 is a bit too much for me...even if I sold the XSi with the kit lens and 2 SD cards I could make it something like &amp;1199, which is more reasonable. But, and here's whaat i'm wondering, is the gap between the 50D and the 7D worth spending more or less $700 more? Is it much of an improvement, especially for someone like me upgrading from an XSi?


hopefully i'll figure it out ;)


Andy

[peety3]

I agree. When you see these specs and start to drool, it isn't a bad idea to stop and think, "how much better will this make my pictures?" For me, I think the answer depends more on autofocus speed and accuracy than anything else. Will it be closer to the 50D or to the 1D? If the latter, the 1DIV will have to be something special to demand a large premium over this camera. 18mp at 8fps is pretty fast.
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>





The 1D series is already something special: durability, customizability, dual card slots, and (according to DB) analog amplifiers in place of some of the digital amplifiers in other models. For its time, the 1D3 and 1Ds3 were some extreme products, and I suspect Canon will deliver. In August/September 2007, the 1D3 was computing 100mp/sec and the 40D was computing 65mp/sec. If that margin holds, we're looking at ~220mp/sec for the 1D4/1Ds4 products (18mp @ 12fps and 36mp @ 6 fps???).

[Garrett-Grimsley]

Oh sweet jesus! This IS going to be the upgrade body I'm going to get! I haven't upgraded from my XT because the XXD bodies didn't seem much different and more to offer to me, but this 7D is outstanding! I love the price too, anything below $2,000 is highly attractive to me.





Time to save up for chirstmas time. [H]

[Chuck Lee]

But Sean, won't you have to buy Canon 420's or 580's? What will you do with those poor Vivitars? Peanut slave triggers, oh but what about the Canon preflash.....[:D]

[Alan]

Now that the 7D is released, let's start bashing it for what it coulda/woulda/shoulda been and begin speculating what the next 8D should be expected/demanded to have, for performance specs.


I'll be out taking pictures with my previous, crummy cameras.


Let me know how the speculation goes. [;)]

[Sean Setters]

But Sean, won't you have to buy Canon 420's or 580's? What will you do with those poor Vivitars? Peanut slave triggers, oh but what about the Canon preflash...../emoticons/emotion-2.gif
<div style="CLEAR: both"]</div>



Actually, the Vivitarswould still be my primary lighting tools. However, I'll be shooting a wedding in the not-so-distant future and having ETTL exposure would be a nice touch. I could have Amber walk around the reception area and simply point the flash at whatever I'm pointed at (making sure the body is facing me), and get decently lit (consistent) off-camera flash results. Plus video...that'd be a nice touch.

[Dallasphotog]

<p style="padding-left: 30px;"]I could have Amber walk around the reception area and simply point the flash at whatever I'm pointed at (making sure the body is facing me), and get decently lit (consistent) off-camera flash results. Plus video...that'd be a nice touch.


This approach works suprisingly well. I put the 420 EX in my daughter's hands and let the 580 EXII trigger both. I refer to her as a voice activated flash stand.

[Oren]

LOL Sean, that would be interesting - not the "walking flash" but what I'd tell Amber to make her do that for you! [:D]

[Sean Setters]

I refer to her as a voice activated flash stand.


Yeah, I wasn't sure if the people here would get the VAL reference if I dropped it. As far as getting Amber to do it, I'm sure it'd be quite easy--one reason I like her is that she's highly suggestable. ;-)

[Oren]

one reason I like her is that she's highly suggestable. ;-)
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>





"Amber - you are a voice activated flash.... you are a voice activated flash....you are a voice activated flash" haha [:D]

[bob williams]

got a 50d now, can't say I am that excited about the 7d. Think I will wait for my 5dII, III or what ever else is available in full sensor when I get the money.

[HiFiGuy1]

It is unclear to me, asa new photographer, what the reference to "sealing like an EOS-1N" implies. Is this 15 year-old camera a bell-weather (sorry, couldn't resist) in weather sealing, or does this imply that the 7D, while weather-resistant, is not exactly up to the standards of the current 1D/Ds bodies? In other words, is this basically a higher resolution 1D Mk. III without the grip and the dual card slots, or what?

[Daniel Browning]

It is unclear to me, asa new photographer, what the reference to "sealing like an EOS-1N" implies. Is this 15 year-old camera a bell-weather (sorry, couldn't resist) in weather sealing, or does this imply that the 7D, while weather-resistant, is not exactly up to the standards of the current 1D/Ds bodies?


DPReview's hands-on preview says that it's the same as the 5D2, which is decidedly not up to the level of 1D. [:(]

[Chuck Lee]

I'll be shooting a wedding in the not-so-distant future and having ETTL exposure would be a nice touch.


Quite right, as long as you can get your hands on one before then. Does sound tempting. I still think you can do the same thing with the Vivs, you just have to have Amber hold the light at the right distance. Dial up the ISO and turn down the flash a bit and you can get very consistant results over a wide range of settings. Especially if you process RAW.



Plus video...that'd be a nice touch.


Just a warning. You will need a really good tripod with really smooth head or IS lenses. I hear video on these DSLRs makes the Nissan commercial (10-15 yrs ago) look smooth. Look what Laforet has gone through filming stuff with the 5D. I call it insanity. If Canon is going to turn our DSLRs into video recorders they could at least be real engineers and give us sensor based image stabilization like Pentax and Sony. That doesn't take away from the need for IS lenses but would definitely make the video a lot smoother. I suggest, before you jump on the "I'm goingjustify this new 1700.00 bodyI bought by doing video at weddings" look at a resonably priced 3 ccd Panasonic or JVC camcorder and see what the benefits of video are. Most of these now film in 720p -1080p and use digital storage. I know , I know, they don't use Canon lenses...........but they are specifically designed for what a Canon DSLR is not.


Sean, It's your money, I just know that when the 5D MkII came out Iwas saying the same things. If I was going to do video at a wedding for a client I would hire a third person videographer. I have a hard enough time keeping up with the still frames.Just take this as thoughts and insights from a fellow strobist. And keep on making that beautiful art!

[District_History_Fan]

Wow, the 7D looks like a great camera. I wish it were 12MP... [I]

[Sean Setters]

Sean, It's your money, I just know that when the 5D MkII came out Iwas saying the same things. If I was going to do video at a wedding for a client I would hire a third person videographer. I have a hard enough time keeping up with the still frames.Just take this as thoughts and insights from a fellow strobist. And keep on making that beautiful art!


You're right Chuck. The cost simply isn't worth the benefit right now. I've got a solid tripod, but I don't have a smooth video head for it. And I'd insist on a battery grip--and then I'd have to upgrade my computer because it will barely render HD video let alone edit it. And I really don't want to have to worry about taking video and pictures at the same time while doing a wedding.


If I start shooting a little more regularly (and making more money), I'll certainly consider it. It does have some feature I'd love to have, but those features simply aren't have-to-haves at this time.

[mkilgour]

I wonder if a kidney is worth 1700 bucks.... :D

[photosurfer]

Wow. . . to me this appears to be a slightly scaled down 1ds mk II, which is awesome because I was considering getting one! hopefully I can scrape the necessary $ together. . .

[Chuck Lee]

The cost simply isn't worth the benefit right now. I've got a solid tripod, but I don't have a smooth video head for it. And I'd insist on a battery grip--and then I'd have to upgrade my computer because it will barely render HD video let alone edit it. And I really don't want to have to worry about taking video and pictures at the same time while doing a wedding.


Whewww!! Another needless upgrade narrowly avoided.....[:D]


No, in all seriousness the 7D looks very exciting. I had a feeling a few weeks and canonrumors ago that if they didn't produce another FF it was going to be a enhanced APS-C. For 30D and 40D users it may be just the upgrade they were looking for. For the 50D crowd I'd say your still good for a year or so unless you shoot alot of BIFs or sports. I looked at some of Rob Golbraiths samples of high ISO club shots and I can't say I was terribly impressed. It was a beta firmware, so I wouldn't base my buying decisions on just those photos but compared to the 5D MkII images at the same ISO it would to me be well worth saving the extra coin for the FF. Canon claims that the Digic IV makes 6400 as clean as 1600 on Digic III. Well I have to say that the 5D MkII 3200 ISO images were as clean or cleaner than the 7D 1600 ISO images. The images on dpreview looked alot cleaner and they were using what appears to be a newer firmware and the in-camera Digic IV processor rather than DPP. The low light high ISO (3200) photos were extremely bland and IMHO not a very good example. Image Resource has the skinny. Just need to go compare.

[crosbyharbison]

It was hilarious I was looking at some sample's on canon's site and none of the pictures were above iso 200. If you put the camera into auto ISO it defaults to at least 400 iso: unless they changed it.

[Sean Setters]

Doesn't Auto ISO start at 200?

[Scott]

I have a 50D, I love my 50 D, my clients and myself are happy with my 50D results, and it has features I rarely use. Good reason to get another L though, convince the minister of war & finance (wife) I could upgrade to 7D or get another L, yes tricky smart people from Canon. Sorry it just doesn

[crosbyharbison]

@Sean


I don't know about others but on my 40d I've never seen auto iso @ 200 even in the brightest conditions.

[Sean Setters]

@Sean


I don't know about others but on my 40d I've never seen auto iso @ 200 even in the brightest conditions.
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>





As far as the 50D is concerned, the AUTO ISO range changes depending on the shooting mode. When shooting with a flash or when the camera is set to manual mode, then the ISO is fixed at 400. In Portrait Picture Style, the ISO is fixed at 100. In P, Tv, Av, and just about every other mode, then an ISO between 100 and 1600 is automatically chosen by the camera. *Note: If fill flash results in overexposure, ISO 100 or a higher ISO will be set.

[Daniel Browning]

Daniel Browning - How many pixel do you think is still reasonable for APS-C?

At least 100 MP. The existing digicams (e.g. LX3) prove that 2 micron pixels have performance that is superior in dynamic range to the existing 5+ micron DSLR pixels.



In other words, at what resolution do you think we'd better stop and focus on doing something else at this format?


Sensor designers have not focused only on increasing resolution. They have been optimizing all sorts of things from the beginning (read noise, QE, FWC, etc.).


I think the current 15-18mp is quite enough already considering one may only need 1MP for internet and 15MP to print to 11x16'!

You don't even need 15 MP to print 11x16. Plenty of people print less than 1 MP on 11x16. In fact, some people attend theaters where 0.7 MP is projected to a 50 foot screen, and they sit in the front row and enjoy the image just fine.

So clearly, resolution is not necessary to make a large print. The more interesting question is: At what point does more resolution fail to make any difference at all?

The answer to that is *much* different than most people think. It is very common to greatly understate the impact of resolution. 15 MP is not the ideal resolution for 11x16". 30 MP would provide higher contrast and resolution.

I started a new thread to discuss the topic:


http://community.the-digital-picture.com/forums/p/2025/15448.aspx ("/forums/p/2025/15448.aspx)

[Daniel Browning]

Wow, the 7D looks like a great camera. I wish it were 12MP... /emoticons/emotion-55.gif
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>





Why is that? It would have worse noise at low ISO (lower dynamic range), based on Canon's typical sensor design. (It might have slightly less noise at high ISO, but are you willing to trade dynamic range and resolution to get slightly better low light?)


Myth busted: smaller pixels have more noise, less dynamic range, worse diffraction, etc. ("/forums/t/1055.aspx)


If it's because of the file size, then you should wish that Canon had better software, not less resolution. All the file size and processing speed issues have been solved already in other cameras and raw converters. (REDCODE is one example: 9.5 MP 12-bit raw files at less than 2 MB each.)

[Jon Ruyle]

The 1D series is already something special


I agree, peety3 (I own one, after all). I just meant that selling the 7D for $2000 might mean the bar will be raised.

[jeffersonposter]

7D, looks interesting. Read some of the specs. Like 8fps and 1.6 for sports (dual processors), 18mp is better than my 30D. Is IQ better than my 5D? Don't need the video. Like the 3'' display and super imposed grid etc. Think I will get a 1Ds MKII. Still think the 7D may be great. Will the new focus system be accurate (1D MKIII)?


JeffersonPoster

[Colin]

Looks like a real winner.


If I was in the means for a new camera, I'd jump on it.


But I'd want a 5D2 first...

[alexniedra]

Looks real impressive - But I still think I'll stick with my 40D and upgrade glass. Maybe 5D II/7D combo ultimately... [:)]

[clemmb]

Is IQ better than my 5D?Think I will get a 1Ds MKII.





I too would like to see an IQ comparison between the 7D and 5D. I do prefer the perspective I get from a FF. My next upgrade will most likely be a 5DmkII maybe in a year.


I have seen several IQ comparisons 5D -vs- 1Ds mkII. Most show the IQ to be pretty close with the 1Ds being slightly sharper. Shootsmarter.com did a DSLR shootout several years ago with 8 cameras. It was controlled headshot, all cameras using the Tamron 28-75 f2.8. The images were printed on 16x20 for the judges to compare. The comparison was mostly focused at color, skin tone and contrast. The 5D came in first and the 1DmkII came in second. The 1DsmkII was close to last place even being beat out by the 30D. I downloaded the full file images and I agree the 1DsmkII is sharper but the 5D has better overall IQ based on this test.


I have recently searched Shootsmarter.com for this article in their archives and can no longer find it.


Mark

[Mark Elberson]

Doesn't Auto ISO start at 200?
<div style="CLEAR: both"]</div>



On the 50D auto ISO starts at 100 and goes up to 1600 (unless you are in manual mode, then it defaults to 400)


*EDIT*


Sorry Sean, I replied before I read this:






As far as the 50D is concerned, the AUTO ISO range changes depending on the shooting mode. When shooting with a flash or when the camera is set to manual mode, then the ISO is fixed at 400. In Portrait Picture Style, the ISO is fixed at 100. In P, Tv, Av, and just about every other mode, then an ISO between 100 and 1600 is automatically chosen by the camera. *Note: If fill flash results in overexposure, ISO 100 or a higher ISO will be set.
<div style="CLEAR: both"]</div>

[mpphoto12]

HOw is the 7D size-wise compared to he 5D and rebel series? i cant tell if its small or large?

[Colin]

7D, looks interesting. Read some of the specs. Like 8fps and 1.6 for sports (dual processors), 18mp is better than my 30D. Is IQ better than my 5D? Don't need the video.(1D MKIII)?
<div style="CLEAR: both"]</div>



More pixels is better, but not necessarily better than the 5D. The 5D will certainly let you get more optical resolution out of EF-lenses, as well as effectively 'faster' apertures, due to the larger light gathering surface....


I'd guess that the image quality on the 7D is absolutely stellar, though I'm not going to sell my 30D and 5D to trade in for a 7D in the hopes that it has everything (and more, whether sealing, video, etc.)


Still, if i had money, and if there weren't any serious problems with it, I'd get one to replace my 30D, in a fraction of a heartbeat, or at least as quickly as I could.


If it was full frame, it'd be a done deal :)

[adam]

The 7D looks awesome and I want one when my 40D dies (or when I win the lottery, whichever comes first.)


But, I'm kind of curious where this fits into Canon's product line. It's like a mix of the 1D series (weather sealing, dual processors, 19-point AF) and the xxD series (size, 1.6 crop). I wonder if this is the 1D mk IV??

[Oren]

LOL no, this is not the 1D mk IV.

[btaylor]

Can't wait for Bryan's review. Looks like a nice piece of kit. I like the sound of the Dual Axis Electronic Level in the viewfinder. Would be great for landscape work. 8 FPS at 18mp is lovely as is the speedlight transmitter.


It's certainly going to be a difficult decision between it and the 5DII once the old 40D dies. High ISO performance is going to be a big decider.


Good work Canon! [Y]

[District_History_Fan]

Daniel,


Aside from the conventional wisdom that increased pixel density decreases DR, increases noise and DLA becomes more of a factor (the D700 seems to be performing well at 12mp FF [:D]), other concerns are things Bryan pointed out in his review of the 50D. Exaggerated camera shake, magnified lens aberrations are two concerns over lower resolution bodies, storage and computer upgrades going from 10mp (40D) to 18mp files might warrant are another area of concern for me personally. I realize that many of these issues are taken care of when downsizing the files... Currently, I have no real problem with printing reasonable size prints at 10mp. Therefore I have no realneed of 18mp.


There seemed to be a general feeling that the 50D was 10# of crap in a 5# bag. Now we have Canon adding another 3mp to the APS-C sensor. I love the improvements they obviously made. Its going to be a nice camera. I'll wait until some objective testing is done before deciding if it is any real IQ improvement in the APS-C world.

[hotsecretary]

Well, I'm in the final stages of hopefully selling my 40D and making the jump to a 5DII and when the price drops on this sucker, I'll probably pickup a 7D as a backup/telephoto lens ;)

[Daniel Browning]

Thanks for the response.




...DLA becomes more of a factor

I kindly disagree. Diffraction is always there. It's always the same, no matter what the pixel size. When the f-number is wider than the DLA, it means that the image is blurred so much by large pixels, that it's impossible to see the diffraction blur. Smaller pixels simply allow you to see the diffraction blur that was always there.

Furthermore, the DLA is the point at which diffraction *starts* to visibly affect the image. It is not the point at which further improvement is impossible. That would be the diffraction cutoff frequency, and it is much, much higher than most people think. For example, the 7D doesn't hit the diffraction cutoff frequency until f/18! That means if you compare the 50D and 7D and f/11, you'll see an improvement in resolution, even though the 50D DLA is f/7.6.



Exaggerated camera shake, magnified lens aberrations are two concerns over lower resolution bodies


High-res bodies (50D) never have worse camera shake than low-res bodies (e.g. 40D). At the very worst, they are only the same. Same with lens aberrations. Along with diffraction, the worst thing that these issues can do is cause diminishing returns.

If you avoid diffraction (stay below DLA), camera shake (tripod), lens aberrations ($$$), and all the other sources of diminishing returns, then you will get the full return: 100% of the increased megapixels.

But if you need the DOF of f/16, or you don't use a tripod (shake), or you use coke bottles instead of good lenses, then you will get 0% of a return from more pixels. The image will not be any worse, but neither will it be better.



...storage and computer upgrades going from 10mp (40D) to 18mp files might warrant are another area of concern for me personally.


Agreed! But the storage and processing speed problems have already been solved in software. There are proven raw compression and demosaic schemes that lose absolutely zero image quality but cut file sizes in half (or more) from what they are now. sRAW is Canon's attempt at compression, but it's much worse than the alternatives.

So instead of asking for less megapixels, ask for more intelligent software, so that more pixels can be added with no negative effects on storage or speed.



There seemed to be a general feeling that the 50D was 10# of crap in a 5# bag.


Those feelings were all based on common misconceptions corrected in the "small pixels myth" link I gave above.



I'll wait until some objective testing is done before deciding if it is any real IQ improvement in the APS-C world.


Agreed. I'm looking forward to Bryan's review.

[District_History_Fan]

Thanks Daniel.


We'll see how the 7D shakes out soon enough. Come on Bryan, aren't you done with that review yet? [;)] lol

[Alan]

...storage and computer upgrades going from 10mp (40D) to 18mp files might warrant are another area of concern for me personally. I realize that many of these issues are taken care of when downsizing the files... Currently, I have no real problem with printing reasonable size prints at 10mp. Therefore I have no realneed of 18mp.
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>





You probably can't avoid computer upgrades. They're a necessary (and, desirable) part of life's work with digital photography.


As far as storage, you can buy HD space so cheaply, you shouldn't have an issue with storage. Buy a docking station that operates with both USB and eSATA, get yourself a 1 or 2 TB internal drive, and you'll be able to store 10's of thousands of full sized RAW files, and gobs of TIF and/or JPGs.

[ShutterbugJohan]

Seems like a popular thread. LOL!

[Jon Ruyle]

It's certainly going to be a difficult decision between it and the 5DII once the old 40D dies. High ISO performance is going to be a big decider.


I'd be shocked if the 7D has anywhere near the high iso performance of the 5DII since the 5DII's sensor is 2 1/2 times as large (unless you're talking about comparing at similar dof f/ stops... ie compare the 7D at f/2 with the 5DII at f/3.5, in which case the 7D may have the edge)

[hotsecretary]

As far as storage, you can buy HD space so cheaply, you shouldn't have an issue with storage. Buy a docking station that operates with both USB and eSATA, get yourself a 1 or 2 TB internal drive, and you'll be able to store 10's of thousands of full sized RAW files, and gobs of TIF and/or JPGs.
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>






Totally agreed... but then again I'm a computer g33k before a ph0t0n3rd ;)
But I work in IT and I'm amazed at how much the price of storage has dropped in the past 10-15 years, I still remember when I made my first big purchase when I went to College and paid $1300 for a 4.3Gb Seagate SCSI drive!?


Now, I have a NAS with 1TB in RAID-1 and the 2x1TB drives would cost me $180 today! But soon time to upgrade the NAS to RAID-5 model ;)


Back to the point... agreed for an average Joe user, pickup a HDD dock that does eSata for ~$20-30 and a couple of 1.5TB drives (good price range these days) and you'll have TONS of space and can easily duplicate your storage and never worry about losing your files unless you're juggling your HDDs!

[Chuck Lee]

I'd be shocked if the 7D has anywhere near the high iso performance of the 5DII since the 5DII's sensor is 2 1/2 times as large (unless you're talking about comparing at similar dof f/ stops... ie compare the 7D at f/2 with the 5DII at f/3.5, in which case the 7D may have the edge)


Jon, Explain....... what the heck are you talking about?Are you saying that sensor noise is a function of aperture?


Rob Galbraith ("http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10239) has some high ISO comparison images shot with an 85 f1.2 @ f1.8 of the same event with the 5D MkII and 7D (beta). Are you saying that if he had shot the 5D at f2.8 instead of f1.8 the ISO would have tobe increased for same exposure, resulting in more noise? If that's what you mean then the answer is clear from these sample photos. The 5D MkII still kicks butt and takes names. ISO 3200 to me looks much cleaner then the 7D at ISO1600. That's a one stop advantage.



High ISO performance is going to be a big decider.


After seeing a sample of images from the 7D I would say if your a jpeg shooter your going to be OK. It'll be interesting to see if third party raw development software can compete with DigicIV for cleanliness. After all is said and done,FF for low light is still #1.


I hope the guys at dpreview do a noise comparison chart.

[Yves]

Want to see a few pics with the 7D? Click here ("http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7d/)!

[Chuck Lee]

Want to see a few pics with the 7D? Click here ("http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7d/)!



The guy in the movie (upper right) looks like the guy from Reverie by Vincent Laforet. I wonder if he (Laforet)put that one together.

[clemmb]

Want to see a few pics with the 7D? Click </div>





I posted this link earlier in this thread.


Try downloading some pics from the 5DmkII or the 1DsMkIII here (http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7d/]here!
<div style="clear: both;)


One of these cameras will likely be my next upgrade from my 5D.


Mark

[Yves]

Uuuups...I missed it? Well, may be someone else did it too...[;)]

[DavidEccleston]

Want to see a few pics with the 7D? Click here ("http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7d/)!






Click here to see shots above ISO 100. ("http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page14.asp)Keep clicking and you'll get a 100% version. No idea how it compares to any other DSLR... that's what I'm hoping all of you will comment on.

[Jon Ruyle]

Jon, Explain....... what the heck are you talking about?


A fair question.



Are you saying that sensor noise is a function of aperture?


Not directly, of course. But if you want to take a picture in a given amount of light with a given shutter speed, then yes- if you stop down, you'll have to use higher iso, so it'll be noiser.



Are you saying that if he had shot the 5D at f2.8 instead of f1.8 the ISO would have tobe increased for same exposure, resulting in more noise?


Oh, yeah. That's what I meant.[:)]


In other words, there are two comparisons one can make. One can compare amount of noise of a picture taken in the same amount of light with same shutter speed and same f/ number (ideally, this would be just comparing pictures shot at a given iso). However, the full frame camera will have a smaller depth of field.


The other comparison is to compare amount of noise of a picture taken in the same amount of light with same shutter speed and same depth of field (ie, the f/number for the full frame camera is 1.6 times as large as the f/number for the 1.6fovcf camera). To get the same shutter speed at this larger f number, the full frame camera would have a higher iso- but in some sense it is a fair comparison. I suppose if you're always shooting wide open, the former is a fair comparison. If you are always stopping down because you need more DOF, the latter is. Reality is somewhere between for most of us, probably.

[Joel Bookhammer]

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but its a short clip of the 7D showing off its in camera leveling, AF points in action, and best of all the 8FPS which sounds awesome! The shutter sounds completely different then what Im used too.


Thanks


Joel


Link: http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/04/video-canon-eos-7d-gatling-gun-shooting-8-fps-of-awesome/ ("http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/04/video-canon-eos-7d-gatling-gun-shooting-8-fps-of-awesome/)


P.S. If someone has already posted this sorry in advance.

[Chuck Lee]

Reality is somewhere between for most of us, probably.


Jon, Can I make a bumper sticker with this saying? LOL LOL [:D]


Just Love It!!

[Jon Ruyle]

Jon, Can I make a bumper sticker with this saying?


[:)]

[Maleko]

I have a 50D, I love my 50 D, my clients and myself are happy with my 50D results, and it has features I rarely use. Good reason to get another L though, convince the minister of war &amp; finance (wife) I could upgrade to 7D or get another L, yes tricky smart people from Canon. Sorry it just doesn&rsquo;t impress me greatly, my opinion only. Scott
<div style="CLEAR: both"]</div>



Im with you on that!


My only next upgrade would be a 5D series, no point buying another 1.6x body.
I would have another L lens over the 7D for sure.

[Keith B]

When I feel the need to upgrade my 40D I will go 7D instead of another XXD. I definitely would not trade my 5DII in for the 7D.

[Sean Setters]

Take a look at the flickr examples ("http://www.flickr.com/photos/35555043@N05/sets/72157622077759223/) link to in this ("http://maccreate.com/featured/hands-on-with-the-canon-7d) hands-on preview. Some of the higher-ISO images (500 and 3200) are actually kind of impressive. I mean, at 100% the ISO 3200 aren't great, but they'd certainly work for small prints and web publishing.

[henytran]

Not sure if anyone posted this yet, here are some sample pics:





http://www.popsci.com/gear-amp-gadgets/article/2009-08/hands-preview-canon-7d-blends-uber-pro-features-enhanced-hd-video-capture

[Fast Glass]

On the DPReveiw theysaidit has the weather sealing "equivalent to the legendary EOS&ndash;1N". Is the weather sealing good enough to take the camera out in the rain with a weather sealed lens?

[Oren]

Someone already said here that the 7D sealing is pretty much like the sealing on the 5D mk2, so I guess the answer is: no.

[Fast Glass]

Darn! I was aware of that post, I was wondering if someone had a more"I know so" typeanswer. Because I couldn't find were it said the 7D was similar the 5D II.


WhyI din't think of this before, I should ofjust check how good the weather sealing of EOS-1N is. Dumb me....[:(]

[usseryrl]

I love all the new features such as these I got off the canon websight.


New 19-point Autofocus system


New Canon iFCL Metering System (Intelligent Focus, Color, Luminance) and a new Intelligent Viewfinder


An 18-megapixel Canon CMOS sensor and Dual DIGIC 4 Imaging Processors


Eight fps continuous shooting up to 126 Large JPEGS using a UDMA CF card


ISO speed settings from 100-6400 (expandable to 12,800).


Full HD video capture at 1920 x 1080 resolution with selectable frame rates of 24p, 25p or 30p


New multi-axis cross-type 19-point AF that remain fully functional with maximum apertures as small as f/5.6.


Spot AF mode reduces the size of a single AF point to focus on small subjects {like an animal in a cage}


AF Point Expansion mode uses a cluster of AF points adjacent to the selected AF point to automatically assist focusing on moving subjects, such as an athlete on the run.


Zone AF divides the 19 AF points into five selectable focusing zones and makes it easier to achieve focus with subjects that are difficult to track with Single Point AF or AF point expansion, such as birds in flight.


Built-in Dual Axis Electronic Level


BUT:What I'm not impressed with {yet} is the noise level. After downloading some of the FULL size photos off of dpreview.com on their preview of it, I wasn't that impressed. Some looked like excess noise while others looked like they hadjaggies. BUT thats just me. I'll wait and see when some of the full reviews are completed before I decide for sure.

[ShutterbugJohan]

Here ("http://a.img-dpreview.com/previews/CanonEOS7D/Images/sealing.jpg) is a photo (of sorts) of the 7D's sealing. Looks like a lot more than the 5D II's memory card door and battery door "sealing". :-)

[Daniel Browning]

</div>





I have a hard time seeing the difference: 5D2 sealing (http://a.img-dpreview.com/previews/CanonEOS7D/Images/sealing.jpg]Here is a photo (of sorts) of the 7D's sealing. Looks like a lot more than the 5D II's memory card door and battery door "sealing". :-)
<div style="clear: both;).

[ShutterbugJohan]

Oops! I hadn't seen that one for a while. [:$]

[Fast Glass]

Here is a Quote from mir.com


<span style="font-family: Arial;"]Weather-resistant characteristic The camera cover has been fully sealed against dirt and moisture, and the conventional external slides, switches have been eliminated, This improves overall reliability and prevents problems even under the most harsh photographic conditions. One of the other remarkable features which shields the camera from possible water penetration is the internal water wheel construction of the Main Dial, It scoops out any droplets. which may have penetrated from this possible entry point.


<span style="font-family: Arial;"]Here is the link http://mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/eos/EOS-1n/Reliability/index.htm ("http://mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/eos/EOS-1n/Reliability/index.htm).


<span style="font-family: Arial;"]What do you guys think? Do you think I could take it out in at least a little bit of rain? Say 5-10 minutes in light rain?

[richm]

So I decided to upgrade and place an order a couple of weeks ago. Has anyone heard of ship dates yet? I'm replacing my 40d and have an eager buyer, but hate to not have anything.