Advice for newbie

[cmac76]

My wife and I are looking to get into photography as a serious hobby. I have been doing some research on SLRs, and, for about a $2000 budget I found the Canon EOS 7D packaged with the 28-125mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens for $1899.


Would this be a good place to start? We want to take all kinds of photographs and maybe find a niche along the way.


Many of you sound very advanced in your knowledge, so I apologize if I offended anyone with such an elementary post. Any advice on gear for getting started would be much appreciated.


Thanks,


Chris

[Keith B]

The 7D sounds like it is going to be a great camera. The 28-135 lens is a okay starter but I'd recommend saving for some new glass in the future.


I think you should look into the 50D also. Then you could buy a better lens like the 24-105 L.

[Sean Setters]

How important is it for your SLR to shoot video (thereare cheaper options if "not very" is the answer)? Otherwise, how important is image quality to you (good lenses are probably a imortant place to invest your money if you want the best image quality)? You also need to letus knowhow you'll be using the camera--"We want to take all kinds of photographs" isquite vague and can generate suggestions that might not beoptimal for your particular situation. Kids, sports, low-light, landscape, wildlife--how are you most likely to use your camera and under what conditions? Will weather sealing be a necessary feature?


Don't get me wrong, I think the 7D will be a solid camera when it comes out--however, just starting out, I'm just wondering if you need the features that justify spending most of your budget on it.

[Mark Elberson]

Canon EOS 50D Digital SLR Camera Body Kit, Black - Refurbished $999.95 ("http://www.adorama.com/ICA50DR.html?searchinfo=Canon+Refurbished)


Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS - $1,030.00 ("http://www.adorama.com/CA1755U.html?searchinfo=Canon+17-55)


Sure the 50D may not have the sex appeal that the new 7D does but it's still a very competant body capable of producing terrfic images. Like Keith said, you may want to consider spending some money on better glass which is what I am proposing with the "kit" I listed above. If you haven't already, see what Bryan has to say about the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS ("http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-S-17-55mm-f-2.8-IS-USM-Lens-Review.aspx).

[Daniel Browning]

Welcome to the forum, Chris!






My wife and I are looking to get into photography as a serious hobby. I have been doing some research on SLRs, and, for about a $2000 budget I found the Canon EOS 7D packaged with the 28-125mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens for $1899.


Would this be a good place to start? We want to take all kinds of photographs and maybe find a niche along the way.





I think that lens is far too limiting:

no fast f-number (very little control over DOF, no shooting in low light)
no wide angle (landscapes, architecture, indoors, environmental portraits, everything else).

no super telephoto (just "regular" telephoto)
no very high quality
no flash
no tripod



Instead, here is what I would suggest:

$720 T1i body (excellent 15 MP sensor)

$130 18-55 IS kit lens (buy it in a kit with camera)
$250 55-250 IS
$400 50mm f/1.4
$270 430 EX flash
$300 medium-quality tripod



That should be around $2,000, but will give you far more flexibility and options for photography:

Wide angle (18mm on kit lens)

Super telephoto (250mm vs 135mm)
Fast f-number (f/1.4 on the 50mm for good control over DOF and available light photography)
Very high quality (50mm f/1.4 stopped down to f/2.8 is almost as good as it gets.)
Higher quality over the entire range: the 18-55 and 55-250 beat the 28-135 at all overlapping ranges.
Flash and tripod photography opens up an entire world of possibilities



If you can't stand the small size of the T1i body (personally, it bothers me), I suggest going with the 50D and dropping one of the other accessories.


When you're learning, especially, it is often more beneficial to spend more on the accessories than the body itself.

[peety3]

My wife and I are looking to get into photography as a serious hobby. I have been doing some research on SLRs, and, for about a $2000 budget I found the Canon EOS 7D packaged with the 28-125mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens for $1899.


Would this be a good place to start? We want to take all kinds of photographs and maybe find a niche along the way.





I recommend that people figure out their lens (and flash) needs, and back into their camera selection after those are chosen. A friend wanted to capture his teenage daughter's theater and volleyball, so he went with the 85/1.8 prime and no flash (neither are 'acceptable' at school events). He ended up with a 40D and the 17-85 lens as a kit, plus the 85/1.8, for under his $1500 budget and he's absolutely thrilled with the results.


If you're looking to shoot 'all kinds of photographs', I'd suggest incorporating a wider lens into your plans, whether it's the EF-S 10-22, 17-40L, EF-S 17-55, EF-S 17-85, EF-S 18-55, or perhaps one of the newly-announced lenses (15-85 or 18-135). I'd also plan on a 50/1.8 lens to gain the creative outlet that it offers. I'd decide on a flash based on your needs, at least the 430EX II if not the 580EX II (which is more powerful, more flexible, and capable of taking an external battery pack which I happen to LOVE). In the end, you may find that a 50D is a better starter camera that will serve you for years.


I know it's a tough concept to grasp now, but plan to keep your first camera until (at least) you buy your third camera. You never know what will happen with either of your first two cameras, as many of us can attest. As a result, don't fret about buying any EF-S lenses; you'll need them for a while.

[Oren]

I agree with Sean and Mark - if this is your first SLR (I said SLR not DSLR) then you really don't need anything above the 50D unless you need special things like weather sealing or anything else. So, if you don't need anything special, get a 50D and *good glass*.


Few things to note:


1. You WILL want more glass in the future so you might want to take this into account before spending your whole budget.


2. I disagree with Mark on the refurb - add $90 and you get a brand new 50D


3. Before buying anything bigger than a rebel (e.g 7D, 50D...) make sure your wife test it too by holding it and playing with it - some women might find the 50D to be a too big and heavy camera.

[Oren]

Daniel and peety, I think you might be wrong. It seems that the nice guy is just getting into photography and I don't see how buying a bunch of lenses, flashes and tripods is a good suggestion.


I have no idea what's his or his wife's knowledge about photography but I've already seen people who want to get into this world without even knowing what "zoom lens" or "focal length" mean (let alone what are these "odd" f-numbers [:P]).

[Maleko]

Daniel and peety, I think you might be wrong. It seems that the nice guy is just getting into photography and I don't see how buying a bunch of lenses, flashes and tripods is a good suggestion.


I have no idea what's his or his wife's knowledge about photography but I've already seen people who want to get into this world without even knowing what "zoom lens" or "focal length" mean (let alone what are these "odd" f-numbers /emoticons/emotion-4.gif).
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Gotta agree with that, would like to know more before I'd make a reccomendation. Saying that, seeing the thread title "Advice for NEWBIE" (emphasis added)...


I see many people get into photography as a "serious hobby", splash out of loads of equipment, only to come back asking, whats this for? What does that mean? How do I do this?
Then they realise they have wasted a good amount of money.


I personally can't see the point ina wannabe "hobbiest" (no offence) spending that much on a camera when really they could get a 500D which takes brilliant shots, and maybe a nice lens to go with it. - Maybe I'm being to harsh :P
To me, now I don't know your personal situation, but buy a cheaper kit, then go somewhere nice with your wife and use the camera :P (maybe that isnt an issue for you, just speculating!)


Forgive meif I have come across blunt and harsh [8-)]

Don't become an "Uncle Bob" at a wedding ;)

[peety3]

Daniel and peety, I think you might be wrong. It seems that the nice guy is just getting into photography and I don't see how buying a bunch of lenses, flashes and tripods is a good suggestion.


I have no idea what's his or his wife's knowledge about photography but I've already seen people who want to get into this world without even knowing what "zoom lens" or "focal length" mean (let alone what are these "odd" f-numbers /emoticons/emotion-4.gif).
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A bunch of lenses? I recommended adding a wider lens and a cheap fast prime. It's three lenses total. I also recommended thinking about the lens choice first, so the 'newbie' can ask some more pointed questions of us that'll help shape their purchase. Although I recommended thinking about an external flash, I also gave an example of someone who skipped right past flashes altogether and is extremely happy; it comes down to what you're shooting. I do hope you consider an external flash to be better than onboard flash...

[Oren]

Take it easy peety [:)] I said "bunch of lenses, flashes and tripods" and was referring to ALL the equipment you and Daniel suggested (and more specifically to Daniel's suggestion as he suggested many stuff there). Anyhow, even 2 lenses (no flash at all) might be too much for someone who is still figuring out what the aperture does and maybe even what the shutter speed does to the picture - and again I don't know what's the original poster's knowledge level but there are many people who don't know all this stuff just yet. After all, we all were there - non of us were born already knowing what's an "f-number" right? [:P]

[peety3]

Anyhow, even 2 lenses (no flash at all) might be too much for someone who is still figuring out what the aperture does and maybe even what the shutter speed does to the picture.
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OK, so if the OP goes with a kit lens, will they really learn what thin DOF means? Not really, as Daniel directly pointed out.


I think anyone buying a DSLR should pick up a 50/1.8 or 50/1.4, to at least learn what their camera can do. The three spouses who have heard my suggestion and given the 50/1.8 as a gift have all been well "rewarded" (and enjoy the lens too!).


I have an acquaintance who has a 5D Mark II and a 50/1.4. She has a successful portrait business, and I really like her work. She understands DOF very well, because the only lens she owns is the 50/1.4 (imagine a camera worth ~7x the lens collection!).

[Colin]

I think there's a good point in too much, too soon.





I think Daniel's list is very good for a starting photographer, but I'd suggest starting off with simply the...
$720 T1i body (excellent 15 MP sensor)
$130 18-55 IS kit lens (buy it in a kit with camera)
$250 55-250 IS


You'll come in under budget, but you can certainly fill that out quickly down the road, and apply it towards things you actually want, once you know how to use what you've already got, and as such, why you want the new stuff.


A 7D with a 28-135 combination, particularly as an only lens, seems a little weird. I'm one to talk. I started with a Rebel XT and a 28-135. I was happy with it, for awhile, until.... I really understood what else I could do with other options. Wide angle was the first, most obvious short-coming.

[clemmb]

As if you do not have enough suggestions already, here is another.

Canon EOS Rebel T1i Digital SLR Camera (Camera Body)
Canon Normal EF 50mm f/1.8 II Autofocus Lens
Tamron Zoom Super Wide Angle SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 XR Di II LD
Canon Zoom Telephoto EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS Image Stabilizer USM(Byan says: "I prefer the Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM Lens over the 55-250")



Total cost: $1,828. Possibly enough left for a tripod. Ask Santa for Speedlite 430EX II.


Mark

[Oren]

peety, although that I still don't have a fast lens like the 50 f/1.4 I know what DOF means. Actually, I knew what DOF is even before I got my first SLR - simply by reading reviews on this great site.

[Dallasphotog]

Lots of good suggestions from the folks above. I get to help outfit new photographers all the time as my daughter is photoeditor for a school yearbook / newspaper and each time the new class arrives everyone is excited to go get equipment.


I would advise you not to overlook used and refurbished quipment. I justhelped a new photogrpaher find a Canon 20D($300 used with 3 extra batteries) plusthree lenses<span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"] EF 28-90mm($89.95 refurbished),EF-S <span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"]18-55mm($119.95 refurbished) and<span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"] EF 75-300mm ($134.95 refurbished).


<span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"]The storewhere we found the camera body had two used Canon 30D's for under $500 and one did not look like it had ever been out of the box. I also have had good luck finding used "L" glass recently as newspapers have been cutting photography staff in my area at an alarming rate.


<span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"]When you have a better feel for what you need, you can upgrade to "L" series glass, but you can get some preety inexpensive stuff off the used rack in the interim.
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[EdN]

My wife and I are looking to get into photography as aSERIOUS hobby. I have been doing some research on SLRs, and, for about a $2000 budget I found the Canon EOS 7D packaged with the 28-125mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens for $1899.


Would this be a good place to START? We want to take all kinds of photographs and maybe find a niche along the way.



If you and your wife have decided to spend some quality time in photography, the 7D would be an excellent choice for a body. It looks like it will have a great AF system, built in flash controller, all the whistles and bells for video work, all the frames per second you will ever need, and a lot of other great pro features. You go for this body, you will have a rugged body that will last you a LONG time and give you all the features you need as you grow into the hobby.


The 28-125 lens would be an okay lens to start with and as mentioned by others above, it leaves a lot to be desired in the wide end for landscape work and it isn't long enough to do wildlife stuff BUT, it does have the range to give you good performance to START.


As you grow into your hobby, I am sure that you will want other lenses to expand your areas of creativity. That's when you may put some money into some quality "L" lenses in the wider range and longer end.


I am just concerned that if you buy a T1i, you may out grow that body too quickly if you and your wife are really serious about photography. I know I did when I got my Rebel.

[Bill W]

Chris your request begs some questions from me.....what makes you and your wife think you'll become serious photography hobbyists?


Do either of you have previous photography experience?


Do you understand some/all of the terms used in the replies?


I have to assume no after reading your generic "all kinds of photographs" statement and that neither of you have previous photography experience.


My point, if my assumption is correct, is that you don't need to start your quest with such sophisticated (expensive) equipment nor all the accessories, i.e. why jump into the deep end of the pool to learn how to swim? This strategy puts you at risk of becoming overwhelmed by the equipment and becoming disinterested w/the hobby resulting in you putting your expensive equipment on the shelf to collect dust.


How many of you started your photographic passion in this manner? I don't imagine too many....another assumption on my part is that most of you started off as myself; the passion was developed, you out grew your equipment and then you started spending your money on more sophisticated equipment and accessories.


My advice Chris; hold off on spending all your budget and invest in a simpler camera that has similar options to a DSLR, e.g. Canon SX20IS, G10 and purchase info books on photography. Learn the camera, WB, EV, ISO, F stops, composition, lighting, etc., develop the interest you have now to the next level.


The benefits to my suggestions Chris; you and your wife will know after a few months of learning this simpler equipment and what makes a good photo if you have the passion to make a more expensive investment, to do more learning and if not; you'll have saved yourselves 1500 bucks and have a nice little camera you can leave on the green box for nice snapshots.


BTW....if my assumption is wrong (mea culpa); less expensive body (Rebel or 50D) and better glass (prime and zoom), though I would still hold off on the accessories until after becoming totally familiar w/the camera, natural light situations and you have decided what type of photography you want to do.


Good luck

[cmac76]

Thanks everyone for all of the advice......I knew that what I was asking was very vague and I appreciate the time you took to post your replies.


It looks like the overwhelming consensus would be to purchase a less expensive body to free up some $$$ for a better lens....so that is what I think I might do. Sooooo.............I am actually scared to ask this question for fear of being too vague again,but I will ask anyway......


If I were to buy only one lensto start out(to be a default type lens), what would you suggest? Thanks in advance!!


Let the bashing begin :-)


Thanks,


Chris

[Keith B]

I'd go 50D plus the 24-105 4.0L IS. TheCanon EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS is a good option too, but I prefer the 24-105 and then ad the relatively inexpensive 10-22 EF-S later for wide stuff.

[Oren]

EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

[Sean Setters]

If I were to buy only one lensto start out(to be a default type lens), what would you suggest?


Either the 24-105mm f/4 L IS ("http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-24-105mm-f-4-L-IS-USM-Lens-Review.aspx) or the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS ("http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-S-17-55mm-f-2.8-IS-USM-Lens-Review.aspx). Both would probably work well for you. You'll simply have to decide whether the extra focal length or the wider aperture is more important to you. Read Bryan's review on both before you decide.

[Scott]

Welcome Chris,


My wife and I kind of sing the same song here as you do. We had taken the plunge into digital photography a while ago and after using 35mm film for a long while and we were quite confused with all the choices. In the end we bought the 50D with the kit lens 18 - 200, now the lens is not great for what I am after (we do a fair bit of portrait work &amp; have done a few weddings) so I bought the 24 - 105 f/4 L.


Couldn't be happier with it, the extra length from the 24 - 70 suits me just fine and the f/4 is all I need, plus IS is a bonus. I also have the cheap nifty fifty which is cheap but it does produce really good images and that is it at the end of the day, great images. Over time I have purchased other things like flash, tripod batteriec cards etc etc but you need good glass to start it all off.


I am by far not up to the standard of some of these other guys and galls but what I have I love. Never be concerned about asking any type of question on this forum, everyone had to start from scratch at one point of there lives.





Hope this help you mate,





Scott

[Maleko]

I'd go 50D plus the 24-105 4.0L IS.
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Part of my kit, and its superb! (yep, kind of biased really :P )

[hotsecretary]

5D II + 16-35L + 24-70L + 70-200L + 35L + 85L + 135L + 580EX x 2 and you'll be set ;)

Oh wait, that's just me dreaming again!


All great suggestions in here, personally I'd recommend something like the 7D + 24-105L to learn and if you want a UWA go for something like the 10-20 .. if you need more reach something like the 100-400 or the 70-200 IS 4L

[Matthew Gilley]

My wife and I were in your situation 3 years ago. We bought an XTi and then shortly after a 40d. My point is not in the camera bodies, but that we quickly realized that 2 people and 1 camera was not a good setup. Two bodies really helped us critique each other's work and with a small selection of lenses, lots more versatility.


Someone suggested a G10 - I think thats a great idea because lugging a big DSLR and lens is not always practical. Sure it doesn't have the bells and whistles the 7d does, but I'm willing to bet you'd have the G10 with you more often and that means more learning.


Good luck with your purchase and have fun!

[luck101]

woot my first post =]





i wish i had a 2000 dollar budget hehe. there is so much u can do with that.


my opinion towards it, start off with a camera, two lenses, and from there buy your accessories.


as for a starting camera..


-Rebel XS, for the price, its great for starting off, and hurts your budget less to buy more accessories. im actually trying to sell one with the 18-55 kit. 3 days left on ebay, lol. i learned alot with this camera, and makes a great transition from point and shoot. about $350-599 dependign if body anlone or with lens


-t1i, i have this camera, and its my bread and butter. if u like to shoot video from time to time, this @ 720p is sufficient. the 15mp is on the edge of cramming so many pixels into one sensor.its nice ergonomics wise, great custom functions, like auto light optimizer and Hilight Tone Priority, its even got an IR receiver for an IR remote. this cam is like a hybrd to the 5d mkII and 50d. i recommend this one! about $670-899 body or kit depending.


-5d, its replaced by the mark II, but its still a full frame for less than $1700 (prolly alot less on ebay), and we all know how much more advantageous full frame is for almost everything





my real advice tho, spend time with lenses. those do make the shots. my 50mm 1.8 is a charm. only like $110 bucks, but its almost top quality in image capturing around f5-f8














and to answer your recent question about one lens only?


its still kinda vague tho but ill answer anyways.


one zoom lens, then the 24-105 or ef-s 17-55, choosing which suits your lighting needs and/or sensor size


one prime lens, then the 50mm 1.4

[peety3]

5D II + 16-35L + 24-70L + 70-200L + 35L + 85L + 135L + 580EX x 2 and you'll be set ;)





With all due respect, I don't understand this logic. One camera, six lenses. Three zooms that cover the three primes. Two flashes with no way to trigger them (so one of them is now parked on the camera).


Once there are three lenses in the bag, I'd think a second body would be the next smarter thing, rather than more lenses.


But, if I was going to spend that much on lenses, I'd drop the three zooms (and the 135L) and replace them with the 14/2.8, the 200/2, and put the 500/4 on the wishlist. 4/5 prime lenses, with 2.5x the focal length at each increment, and my only "concern" would be the slow focusing of the 85L.