Mac Pro vs my old Windows computer

[Jayson]

I read the other thread talking about the macbook air vs the pro and began to wonder about my own situation since my computer motherboard fried recently. I have been considering a switch to Mac for a long time due to what I see and hear regarding reliability and performance.

How much, if any, performance increase or decrease do you think I would get by purchasing the macbook pro 13 inch monitor compared to my old computer. I would have CS5 and Lightroom 3. Maybe some other stuff, but that would probably be the most intensive stuff I would use. I am not a gamer.
My wife already has an Air with the Thunderbolt display so I don't want anything bigger than the 13in monitor.

Specs of the pro I am looking at are:


2.8GHz dual-core
Intel Core i7
4GB 1333MHz
750GB 5400-rpm1
Intel HD Graphics 3000
​My Old computer was a Dell Inspiron 546s refurbished

Its specs were:

ATI Radeon HD3200 graphics
AMD Phenon X3 8450E 2.1GHz
8GB of DDR2 ram
640 GB 7200rpm HD

Thanks for any help you provide.​Jayson

[M_Six]

An i7 processor with 4GB of RAM is a waste (IMHO). If you get that processor, go with at least 8GB of RAM. It'll take 16, but that can get pricey. If going to 8GB puts it out of your budget, consider adding RAM later, which can often be much cheaper. Crucial (http://crucical.com) is a great place to buy RAM and adding RAM to a MBP is a snap.

The screen on the 13" MBP is incredible. I'm not sure how much Photoshop work you do, but the 13" screen on that is surprisingly roomy and very vivid. When my Dell Z600 finally goes, I'll be looking at a 13" MBP to replace it.

As far as the switch to Mac OSx, I don't know. I've played around with it and it seems easy enough, but I'm too used to working with Windows. You can run Windows7 on a MBP chassis by using Bootcamp. You'll need a Windows7 license, of course.

[Jayson]

Thanks Mark. I was planning on upgrading the memory after I purchased the machine and figured I could do it cheaper. I have played with my wife's computer a little bit and think I could get use to the Mac OS. I am a fast learner when it's interesting. :)

[jrw]

I7 very fast. When you get more memory to make better use of the CPU, you'll likely find that 8 GB is enough. When doing batch processing of many files I have monitored the CPU and RAM usage. The processor reaches capacity before the memory does. Don't forget to adust settings to allow CS5 and LR to use more of it. If motherboard is capable, a higher RAM access speed will benefit you when doing batch processing.

Is it possible to squeeze one of the flash hard drives into it as a second hard drive? If so, you may want to consider using one if you do batch process raw/jpeg/tiff conversions or if you do much work with video. The improved read/write times really improve the speed when doing files big enough to require spooling on and off the hard drive. Had one put onto my machine at work as I do a lot of video work and it does make a difference.

[HDNitehawk]

How much, if any, performance increase or decrease do you think I would get by purchasing the macbook pro 13 inch monitor compared to my old computer.

The Macbook will have much better performance than the Dell, if your Dell is like mine always bogged down with adware, malware and viruses. I think the MBP you mentioned will perform fine. The wife has a 13” MBP and it is two years old and it handles CS5 fine.

At first I was going to start the next sentence with “Seriously though” then I thought about it and the last statement really was serious it seems the Dell is always cluttered with junk.

You will not have problems picking up and using Mac, it is simple and not like learning a new language.

You can use Boot Camp and put Windows 7 on your machine, there is only one negative to this. On your laptop you will have to partition off space for Windows, you will loose precious space. While in Windows it will not read the Mac part of the hard drive, but you can read the Windows part of the hard drive in Mac. What that means is that you will not be able to pull files off your Mac partition to use in Windows, but you can do the opposite.

Last issue I see with the change, you will need to acquire the Mac version of CS5 and Lightroom. If I remember right Adobe will do this for a fee.

[bigblue1ca]

Regardless if you go with the MBP or a Windows 7 machine, if you are going to be processing lots of images and running LR and PS, especially together, and now with basic video editing in LR4, buy as much RAM up front as fits your budget. At the very least get 8GB of RAM.

Last fall I looked at the 17" MBP, as my wife has a Mac Laptop, and I also looked at a 17" Dell XPS. Spec for spec processor, RAM, video card, they were the same, the MBP was 1/4" thinner and 3/4's of a LB lighter though. I ended up going with the Dell though as I was able to buy 16GB of RAM vs. 8GB with the MBP at the time of purchase; my machine was $2200, while the MBP would have been $2900; I decided I could live with the marginal size difference for that price, and I've used Windows since 3.1 and haven't had any issues since XP was released more than a decade ago.

Despite the very successful marketing on Apple's part, Windows 7 vs Apple is pretty well Canon vs. Nikon these days. But, as with cameras and lenses, buy what best fits your needs.

[Sheiky]

How much, if any, performance increase or decrease do you think I would get by purchasing the macbook pro 13 inch monitor compared to my old computer.
Little increase I think. Definitely don't get your hopes up too high.

The traditional Hard Drive is the slowest component in todays computers. In your case you are used to a 7200RPM hard drive, this is most likely faster than the Mac's 5400RPM drive. The Mac wil have a faster CPU, but the speed of the hard drive is the "speed you feel".
Having a fast processor and loads of memory sound really nice, but the point is that you hardly use it. Having 8 or 16GB of RAM sounds amazing(and it can be) but truth be told is that you really have to push your machine to use it. For normal use and Lightroom plus the occasional edits in CS5 4GB will be fine. If you have more you are likely to use it only in small peaks. Processes which consume a lot of RAM are for example stitching multiple shots or using heavy filters in CS5. Or if you do real heavy multitasking which I doubt you will on a 13" screen. With more than 4GB these processes will just take a little less time on 8 or more GB's. Is it worth the extra money, that's up to you. It is cheap at the moment;)

As I said the traditional hard drive is the slowest component in todays pc's. If you want a faster PC go for a Solid State Drive. With a Solid State Drive you can take more advantage of a faster CPU and more RAM, because the drive is fast enough to enter lots of data simultaneously. SSD's are currently quite nicely priced compared to the traditional hard drives, just a thought:rolleyes:

As far as Dell vs Mac is concerned. If you know how to work with W7 and disable those useless Dell apps that boot every time you start your pc, I guarantee you there's practically no difference in speed between W7 and Mac. It's a myth that you can't get a virus on a Mac or that Windows is slower than Mac OS. Just like bigblue1ca says: it's like Canon vs Nikon. Both have their pro's and cons, but all in all they pretty much give the same result.

My advice: go with what you like. Mac can be nice(I personally don't like the workflow) and it might be more easy to synchronize with your wife's Mac, iPads, iPhones and all other i-stuff. A new Dell or any other brand W7 laptop will do the same tasks just as well. Somewhat cheaper which is the most important factor in pretty much any Mac vs Windows debate and usually the warranty is better as well.

Ps: a new pc will always feel faster and better so enjoy it :)

[M_Six]

I agree that going with an SSD will increase speed. Just be aware that you'll sacrifice a considerable amount of storage space. SSD drives are still comparatively small. And the larger ones are quite pricey. A 512GB SSD runs about $500. Be prepared to pay for speed or lose storage space. In a workstation it's not a big deal, you can always add a normal drive for storage and run the OS and apps off the SSD. But in a 13" MBP, you're pretty much stuck with just one drive. If you go SSD, get yourself a good external to store files.

[Sheiky]

That is a factor indeed. I know there are laptops that have 2 slots for HDD's(HP has models). If you would buy a laptop with a 60GB or 120GB SSD you could transfer the hard drive from your old laptop to the second slot in the new laptop. Make it a hybrid pc. Use the SSD for your programs(+ cache) and the hard drive for storage of photos. That's how I have things in my desktop. I only have a 60GB SSD(unformatted) which is enough for W7, Lightroom, CS5 and all other programs that I use often. For programs that I don't use often and for games where I don't need the speed of an SSD I have normal hard drives.

I must say that 60GB is enough, but on the small side.

Edit: Just to get back at this. I know there are laptops that have 2 HDD slots. However those are big 17" laptops. I don't know if they exist in 13".

[HDNitehawk]

Or, he could buy an external hard drive and just hook it up to the FireWire.

On the Mac Pro, I have 4 hard drives. None are HDD, but I can write to the external as fast with the Fire Wire as I can the 3 internal hard drives. I had the external hooked up to the wife’s Mac Book Pro and it seems to load up pictures just as fast as it does on the Mac Pro. On all the machines the externals and the 3 internal hard drives are three slower than having your files on your main hard drive. So you are losing speed any time you put the files off of the main drive to a second drive, whether a HDD drive would make up the lost speed or not I do not know.

I think if you get the Mac you are talking about, it will do the programs you listed just fine, and better than the Dell you have now. The wife’s Mac Book Pro was one of the cheaper models; 2GB of ram, slower processor and it isn’t all that much slower than my Mac Pro with its 16GB of ram and 8 core processors. The real difference is load up time of big files in adobe bridge

My Dell is a Vostro 1710 with a few upgrades 3 years old, paid about 2 grand for it:
17” monitor
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5ghz
4GB of Ram
Nivada GeForce 8600M GS
300GB HD

The wifes Mac Book Pro is 3 years old, paid $1200:
Going from memory, because I am at work I think its specs are this:
Intel Core 2 Duo I think it is 2.1ghz
2GB of Ram
160GB HD +/-

I am using the Dell to type this, and from my personal exerience of these two I would choose the Mac Book Pro over the Dell.

[Sheiky]

or, he could buy an external hard drive and just hook it up to the firewire.
That's a good point. Firewire, USB3 or Thunderbolt would give good results.


So you are losing speed any time you put the files off of the main drive to a second drive, whether a hdd drive would make up the lost speed or not i do not know.
Having your operating system, programs and photos all on the same hard drive would probably be even slower than using an external drive with your photos in combination with a fast primary SSD. You don't have to put all the files from camera to SSD to external hard drive. If you keep the Operatng system, programs and RAW-cache on the SSD and the files on the external drive you're probably good. Obviously if you're using the laptop daily for your photographs, this process might bug you in the long run.


The Macbook will have much better performance than the Dell, if your Dell is like mine always bogged down with adware, malware and viruses.
i am using the dell to type this, and from my personal exerience of these two i would choose the mac book pro over the dell.
Can I ask you this: what type of person are you? Are you the type that buys equipment and uses it as it is delivered. Or are you a person that likes to tweak the equipment for better performance? As I said before, annoying Dell apps and viruses tell more about a user than about a system. If you know how to "clean up" a factory laptop like Dell you chances are small that you experience the problems you're talking about. But if you don't or simply don't want to, you just have to face them(the Apps). The point of these factory system builds like Dell or HP is that they need to make commercial for their own good and invent all different types of Apps that keep you using the Apps with their name.
I don't mind to clean up my system and tweak it where I can(I build my own system so I don't have these annoying Apps anyway). Better yet I kind of like it to be in control for once ;) If you don't want to bother and all the rumors about Macs(no viruses, no speed loss over time, no maintenance) are true, then you're in the right spot with a Mac.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94M1BstxYEE

[HDNitehawk]

Having your operating system, programs and photos all on the same hard drive would probably be even slower than using an external drive with your photos in combination with a fast primary SSD. You don't have to put all the files from camera to SSD to external hard drive. If you keep the Operatng system, programs and RAW-cache on the SSD and the files on the external drive you're probably good. Obviously if you're using the laptop daily for your photographs, this process might bug you in the long run.


Can I ask you this: what type of person are you?


It is faster to keep the Raw files on the hard drive and storage on the other drives. Really where a slow down is noticable on the external or other drives is in load up time of the thumbs. Once I have a folder open I really never find myself thinking either the Mac Pro or the Mac Book Pro is to slow.

I got a good laugh out of the video by the way.

I have been the type of person that for 20 or so years has been cleaning up his friends and families computers once they get full of bugs or need updates. I have been tweaking and playing with them for as long as they have been making computers. Im the guy who in the mid 90's set on the phone with HP for 8 hours trying to install a modem, which in the end took 3 days to install and get it right. Im the guy who has owned several Dells, and the last one my laptop I have now, I had to send it back because they got it wrong. I spent two hours talking to someone on the other side of the earth in India to return it to a Dell center 12 miles from the house. Then when I get it back four weeks later, (a brand new laptop by the way) they had scared the casing. When I talked to the guy in India for another 2 hours, I finally ended the conversation with a few choice words we shouldn't post here and told him to send me a complete new one, they did. Three times in the last 3 year the IT guys have had to wipe the Dell, and I have a disdain for IT guys, each time I have to straighten the machine back out once they finish with it. If you need a windows machine, build it custom never buy off the shelf.

At this point in my life, I am the type of person that just wants to buy something and it works. After I went and bought an Apple computer, Apple router, Apple Television, Iphone and Ipad, brought them home and plugged them in and ....they just worked. I didn't even have to talk to the guy in India. It felt good.:p

But I will say this, I have two IMac's and the Mac Pro in the house. I loaded bootcamp on all three machines and they are the best Window's machines I have ever bought off the shelf. I use them for gaming, even though I am an old man by gaming standards I still play Lineage 2 occasionally. Honestly I think it was easier loading Windows with Bootcamp on an apple machine than it is loading Windows on a PC. Apple gives you all your drivers.

Edit: thinking about it a bit more, buying a Mac and using it as a Windows machine might be a very good idea. I haven't found any hidden Mac programs or bull on Bootcamp. Unlike buying a Dell or HP.

[Sheiky]

Haha your story sounds strangely familiar;) I am that guy right now.
Last week my sister came by our house with her new laptop. An HP super 17" laptop(don't know what type). She wanted me to install Microsoft Office. I pushed the power on button and to be fair, this has been the longest start-up time I've experienced in a long time. It had HP Apps for pretty much any stupid thing you can imagine. HP USB-port program(to make it faster?...why? did they make it slower?...), HP CD-Burner(W7 has it build-in), some sort of HP App store etc etc. Well you get my drift, like 10 of those useless programs that are installed to make it easier on you and make your laptop faster. Without my sisters knowledge I removed all those things from the start-up and it booted like a new laptop should be doing. :o It took me like half an hour and now it runs very smooth and I'm confident that it will do that for a long time.
Now that 17" laptop had quite the specs and cost about a 1000 dollars I believe. If you'd buy a Mac that was comparable spec'ed I'm sure you would pay much more for it. And it runs just as smooth. And no a Mac will not process your photos any better:rolleyes:It's just that you need to know the process to make it run smooth and then you're done. It's very easy.
I build a desktop for my 80-year old grandpa last year and that's still running smooth. He had some small issues, but that's mostly his own fault. Pressing wrong buttons or deleting short-cuts. Searching for menu-bars that are hidden and that sort of things.


If you need a windows machine, build it custom never buy off the shelf.
Definitely. I've build my own desktop and keep upgrading it from time to time. It keeps my system running fast and I get to be very flexible in what I can do with it. In the desktop segment there is no doubt that you can get more for less in building your own system.
Just an idea. You could also buy a Dell/HP thing. Download and burn the W7 from the Microsoft site. Clear your hard drives. Install W7 with the registration code on the laptop and you're off for a totally clean start.


At this point in my life, I am the type of person that just wants to buy something and it works. After I went and bought an Apple computer, Apple router, Apple Television, Iphone and Ipad, brought them home and plugged them in and ....they just worked. I didn't even have to talk to the guy in India. It felt good.:p
I hear you. It's nice if different product easily cooperate.
It's also interesting to see how you Americans are completely influenced by all the Apple gear. The competition looks to be better spread out here in the Netherlands.


Edit: thinking about it a bit more, buying a Mac and using it as a Windows machine might be a very good idea. I haven't found any hidden Mac programs or bull on Bootcamp. Unlike buying a Dell or HP.
If you care about a clean look(all), that doesn't sound so bad. It does sound like an expensive go around though :p


even though I am an old man by gaming standards I still play Lineage 2 occasionally
Wow you made me feel 15 years older in an instant. I still like to play Command and Conquer Generals from time to time;) Very occasionally to be fair, I hardly game at all.

[Daniel Browning]

I got a good laugh out of the video by the way.


You'll like this one then:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI

[Jarhead5811]

I wanted a media center/home server, so, I built a AMD six core system with 16GB of ram, 120GB SSD and twin 2TB HD mirrored, running Win7 Ultimate, about a year ago. It's the best Windows machine I've ever owned and yet it's still flakey enough at times that I hate I didn't get a Mac. Unless something amazing happens I will not have another Windows machine. All Apple from here on out.

[bigblue1ca]

I have been the type of person that for 20 or so years has been cleaning up his friends and families computers once they get full of bugs or need updates. I have been tweaking and playing with them for as long as they have been making computers.


Haha your story sounds strangely familiar;) I am that guy right now.

I see a correlation here, computers and cameras. I'm in the same boat with helping friends etc. I got my first PC in 90, built my next one, and then switched over to buying Dell's, both towers and laptops and knock on wood I've never had any problems. Granted, I do my best to wipe them systems clean when I get them so they don't have any apps I don't want, etc.

[Sheiky]

I wanted a media center/home server, so, I built a AMD six core system with 16GB of ram, 120GB SSD and twin 2TB HD mirrored, running Win7 Ultimate, about a year ago. It's the best Windows machine I've ever owned and yet it's still flakey enough at times that I hate I didn't get a Mac. Unless something amazing happens I will not have another Windows machine. All Apple from here on out.
Do you base that on personal problem-free experiences with Apple or just blaming your own system?


I see a correlation here, computers and cameras. I'm in the same boat with helping friends etc. I got my first PC in 90, built my next one, and then switched over to buying Dell's, both towers and laptops and knock on wood I've never had any problems. Granted, I do my best to wipe them systems clean when I get them so they don't have any apps I don't want, etc.
That's the way to go. These days you can also buy lose components and let a store assemble it for you. Name it a personalized "Dell". You can get the best out of both worlds if you don't like to install the system yourself.

[HDNitehawk]

Wow you made me feel 15 years older in an instant. I still like to play Command and Conquer Generals from time to time;) Very occasionally to be fair, I hardly game at all.

I am 51, the average age of gamers is increasing every year. I don't play as much as I used to. For a time I actually made money playing on line, 8 or 9 years ago I made a fair wage selling ingame assets on ebay. But as all good things go, companies in Asia moved in to the busness and there are kids making a few dollars a day now doing the same thing.

I play games less and less now, maybe if they come up with a simulated online multi player version of a wildlife hunting game where you are using a camera instead of a gun I might play more. I wonder what a ingame simulated 800mm F4 would sell for on ebay ;)

[DavidEccleston]

maybe if they come up with a simulated online multi player version of a wildlife hunting game where you are using a camera instead of a gun I might play more. I wonder what a ingame simulated 800mm F4 would sell for on ebay ;)

If you can accept single player, Sony has you covered. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrika_(video_game). The catch is that all your gear will be Sony Alpha related. Sony also has you covered if you wanted to take photos of cars, in Gran Turismo 5.

[HDNitehawk]

@David; Surely there is a cheat or a hack to bring in Canon gear. :p

[Jayson]

I ended up buying the upper model 13 inch pro. I probably should have purchased the lower end 15inch but didn't really think I needed that much since my old computer wasn't that much. I am going to get the extra 4 gb of ram in the future so I will have 8 when all is said and done. So now the question is, should I purchase the apple wireless external keyboard and mouse or do you think there is some third party brand that is better. I use the thunderbolt display for my monitor so I have a nice 27inch HD monitor, but am having trouble getting use to the tap pad on the pro and using it for selections and different stuff with photoshop. Thanks for your input everyone!

[neuroanatomist]

The external kb is nice. I'd use the trackpad for awhile to see if you prefer it to a mouse - I do, so I use the Magic Trackpad instead of the external mouse (although I have that, too, and you can sync both if you like).

[HDNitehawk]

I ended up buying the upper model 13 inch pro. I probably should have purchased the lower end 15inch but didn't really think I needed that much since my old computer wasn't that much. I am going to get the extra 4 gb of ram in the future so I will have 8 when all is said and done. So now the question is, should I purchase the apple wireless external keyboard and mouse or do you think there is some third party brand that is better. I use the thunderbolt display for my monitor so I have a nice 27inch HD monitor, but am having trouble getting use to the tap pad on the pro and using it for selections and different stuff with photoshop. Thanks for your input everyone!

I use the apple keyboard and it works fine, I like that it has the USB port on it to plug the mouse in to. I don't like apples mouse and I am typing right now on the wife's laptop and we have a Dell mouse plugged in to it. But you can get any keyboard/mouse combo you like.

[Jayson]

I am sure I will get use to the touchpad. I am already having trouble trying to go back to the old sony pad. I didn't realize it but used the wireless mouse I had for the sony and it worked great on the mac. Thanks for the tips! I am going to maybe buy the external keyboard and just use the old mouse I had and call it a day. Thanks again for your assistance in making this choice. So far I am very pleased!

Jayson

[Sheiky]

So far I am very pleased!Jayson
That's good news! Have fun with it:D
I don't remember with what it was exactly, but John(neuro) had an advantage using the multi-trackpad vs my normal mouse in some photo-editing moves. So I'd suggest to give the trackpad a chance to get used to it, it might turn out to be more helpful than you think now :o

[neuroanatomist]

I don't remember with what it was exactly, but John(neuro) had an advantage using the multi-trackpad vs my normal mouse in some photo-editing moves.

Yep - the trackpad supports thing like two-finger scrolling around your image, pinch-zoom, etc., depending on the software you're using.