Black and White Photography

[iND]

I would like to start a discussion on Black and White photography.
I just got back from Paris and have a renewed interest in Black and White.
I was especially inspired with the photos of Henri Cartier - Bresson ( you can google some of his works).

I have used various techniques to convert to B&W and although I am a fan of Silver Effects Pro but I do not find that it satisfies all my desires.
Simple Raw contrast, black, clarity and saturation adjustments sometimes are more pleasing.

Each of these examples I posted was post processed with a different technique, software or workflow.

What little I know about B&W needs to be expanded on.
I often wonder how the masters perfected their photos with no photoshop, but when I look at them deeper (exhibit at the British Museum) I found that they were not perfect and that was a part of the attraction. Some were more simple than I would have thought of and some were much wider angle than I would have though of and some were much closer than I would have thought of.

An early piece of advice I got on B&W processing is that in every B&W photo something must be white and something must be black.
And the mindful reflection that a color photograph captures an image of a person while a B&W captures the soul.

I am looking forward to a discussion on B&W photography that goes beyond software and post processing and into the art of the subject.

Thank you.

1900
1901
1902
1903

1904

[btaylor]

I love black and white photography. I find that some black and white shots tell so much more of a story than a colour one. I actually wrote a blog post about Paris with just black and white shots of the city. You can see it here:

http://methodicallymuddled.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/paris-the-city-of-boulangeries-patisseries-and-criminal-dazzlery/ (http://methodicallymuddled.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/paris-the-city-of-boulangeries-patisseries-and-criminal-dazzlery/)

There's a bunch of black and white street stuff in a post about New York in there somewhere too if you're interested.

I use a bunch of lightroom presets by VSCO for my black and white conversions. They have a heap of film filters and I really like the inky blacks that the black and white films give you. Might be worth a look: http://vsco.co I like the ilford delta filters the best.

Ben

[btaylor]

Ah that's right. I did a whole post on Black and White in New York. http://methodicallymuddled.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/greyscale-gorilla-playground/

BT

[Lars]

I hope that this thread will be a popular one. I have a summer (and autumn) project that is to do more black and white photography. I don't have lightroom, but found the B/W converter in photoshop nice to work with.

I am sure I will find inspiration and tips from this thread. The reason why I want to do more B/W is to remove distracting colours from the image, and draw attention towards what I want to depict in the photograph.

Lars

[Steve U]

I'm a big fan of B&W.
I think contrast is one of the main factors that influence me to do a B&W conversion. Where I live we have a beautiful river and the city revolves around it. But it is just brown water. Clean, but brown. So B&W is a really good alternative for water shots.
I like the effects that Nik help me create and love the grainy, darker feel to some images. I tend to use a vignette a little more as I try and create a "feel" or elicit some form of emotive response to my images.
I just love it, blown highlights, fuzzy edges, shadows on faces, funny crops, I feel I have a lot more room to be creative with my B&W's.
There are of course a lot of images in the "official" B&W thread on this site, but here are a few that illustrate what I like about B&W.
Some may think I ruined perfectly fine colour shots, but to me that's not what I was looking for.

I stopped this girl on the waterfront and asked her if she minded if I took her photo.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7020/6711528553_680203b60f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/steves_life/6711528553/)
Girl at Wello Pt. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/steves_life/6711528553/) by Steve's Life (http://www.flickr.com/people/steves_life/), on Flickr

My father-in-law.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7168/6580308491_d688ca6761_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/steves_life/6580308491/)
Nev (http://www.flickr.com/photos/steves_life/6580308491/) by Steve's Life (http://www.flickr.com/people/steves_life/), on Flickr

Thanks for viewing and post more B&W.

[Steve U]

Have always enjoyed B&W myself and keep finding that people who see my photos also have an appreciation for it as well. One caveat to add to that of course is that many of the photos I convert also have the contrast and compositional strength to stand very well, and may be better, without the distraction of colour from the lines and shapes. As far as the 'need' for a true black and white in every photo I am not convinced. Have seen many, and taken a few, that are mid-tones only. Foggy landscapes are one item that stands out in this category of lower dynamic range. It all depends on the subject and how it is desired to portray it. A wide dynamic range just doesn't always convey the same mood that went with taking the photo in the first place.

Well said. Sums it up.
I like the foggy landscapes as well.

[iND]

Grain and contrast are a recurring theme with my black and whites.
I tried to set the black and white ends of the histogram but found it too restricting and often darkened the scene too much.
I am not really a fan of selecting too many areas individually for adjustment as this is definately in the ability of Silver Effects Pro.
I do use the burn and didge tools very selectively.
What am do more is plan my natural light for contrasts that are not too sharp, a good natural light situation beats any postprocessing.

[ogrec]

dont overedit
imo, if its taking more then 15mins to edit a photo, you,re doing somethin wrong
heres a couple of my favorite photos
http://i.imgur.com/Ra9nf0s.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/a3OfP0C.jpg

an inversion of a b/w selfportrait done u der bad lighting
http://i.imgur.com/0dpZc5a.jpg

i like b/w, but i like pictures with a little bit of color better. this is offtopic so skip this part if youre not interested.
i often desaturate parts of image where colors would draw viewers attention away from what i consider to be more important part of the photo
walls and ground have green-yellow moss color in original photos, but desaturating them helped out a lot here imo and kept focus on light or valve which with everything else in b/w pop out a lot more, but at the same time they dont look like overused effect of i dunno red rose and everything else b/w for example
http://i.imgur.com/OqGBa1c.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZNRPEKE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uTn2D7N.jpg

heres another one, i removed strong yellow car light color (i left just a little bit so it would look like the image was not too edited) and blue night color
http://i.imgur.com/5vZonHl.jpg

and another one in which i felt after b/w conversion it looks a lot cooler if i keep parts of lightbulb in color (color intensity was around quater of original if i remember correctly)
http://i.imgur.com/qbs3Auu.jpg

[btaylor]

Makes 15min of editing sound like a breeze. I used to get into the darkroom during art class quite a lot during high school, it was a lot of fun but not exactly convenient.

[iND]

Things that make a good B&W.

To say a that a good black and white ideally covers a spectrum (histogram) of black to white and that I try to have at least one thing absolute white and one absolute black is perhaps an over simplification but it does help start the discussion.

In truth most of my better B&W reach to if not touch both ends of the histogram (black....white)

But the vast majority of my good B&W cover a good stretch of the gray spectrum, which despite a recent book title has more than 50 shades.

I try to plan a B&W before I shoot, it is rarely an after thought in post processing.
So I look for things like texture and lighting that is not too sharp.
I dont mind grain and this allows higher ISOs, which is very liberating.
But most of all I look for the right colors.

Here is an example.
Take an average color chart1908


Apply two techniques to convert it to B&W

simple RAW desaturation1909

Then a B&W preset in Color Effects Pro
1910


Two points here:
Desaturation by itself results in a much narrower range of grays.
While Color Effects Pro and Silver Effects Pro can considerably increase the spectrum.
Second when I see blue and green I think left histogram (black end) and when I see yellow and green I think right side of the histogram (white) and I see red as mid grays.
I use this minds eye to decide preshutter snap if I am going to have a good gray spectrum that usually results in a better B&W

[Raid]

iND

I must ask, while you were in Paris, did you get a chance to look through the Albert Kahn Museum? That houses one of the best collections of early BW photography.

[Busted Knuckles]

Just found myself with a bit of time to add some more to this thread. ........

How quickly we forget. Well said.

Having "been there, done that" there was a different feeling of accomplishment with pulling off a really good image. Sort of reminds of when I had to walk to school, uphill, both ways, with newspaper for shoes.... :)

[iND]

The museums I did visit other than the Louvre included:

Henri Cartier-Bresson Gallery (not the Foundation)
2 Impasse Lebouis, 75014 Paris, France ‎

Européenne de La Photographie‎
5-7 Rue de Fourcy
75004 Paris, France\




Centre National d'Art et de Culture George Pompidou

19 Rue Beaubourg, 75004 Paris, France



The Albert Kahn Museum was outside the city but is on the list for the next visit, now that I have the subway system figured out

[Dr Croubie]

Well, this thread is certainly appropriate for what I've been doing lately, seems all that I do is shoot B+W these days, all on film.
So to celebrate, I'll share this picture. It has been a long long long time coming.

I took it in March, down the Great Ocean Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_ocean_road). Mamiya 645AF, 45mm f/2.8, CPL, Efke KB25.
First problem, Efke has a nasty habit of sticking to everything when you develop it, like the rollers of the machine at the lab that processed it, half the backing plastic came of in chunks (this was the main reason I've started developing all my own B+W at home now).
I bought a printer (Epson R3000) a few months ago, I tried getting it working on a virtual Windows on my main PC, after a week of headaches, I gave up and formatted my old laptop. It worked enough for printing, but copying to USB each was just annoying, and laptop screen is not as nice as my U2711.
A few weeks ago, I gave VirtualBox a try. Worked straight off, no headaches at all, now I've got windows running in the background on my desktop (I could do with some more RAM though)
I've had my Epson V750 for about a year now, using linux-drivers. I tried installing the Silverfast that came with it, was still registered to the last guy. A year later, I finally got around to getting them to transfer the rego to me. So I've installed it on my virtual machine last week.
I tried forever to get some Kami Scanning fluid into Australia. Too explosive, Aztek won't ship outside the US. Said I could get some from the factory in Germany. €50 only. Oh yeah, and €400 for shipping. Again more headaches. Came across Scan-Science selling Lumina fluid. Ordered straight away. 6 weeks later nothing, I asked for a tracking number (which only said 'has left canadia'). Another 2 months after that, I was about to call shenanigans on the whole thing, grab a broom and ask for my money back, when it finally rocked up.

So this weekend, it all finally came together. Wetmounted scanning with Lumina Fluid on Betterscanning holder. Calibrated focus with scanning target. Calibrated colour with IT8 target. Scanned to 4800dpi (about 30MB jpeg). Cloned the hell out of all the specks of missing film-backing. Printed a test on 5x7 Ilford Galerie Smooth Gloss (I shouldn't get attached to this paper, seeing as they're about to go bust), and it just looks amazing. The digital file on my screen does not do it justice. And I just realised I haven't even USMed it, just a few tone curves and that's it (so it probably looks a bit less sharp than it should, I might fix it tonight and re-upload).
Tonight I'll try printing some more tests on that pack of sample papers I ordered ages ago (I really like the texture of Moab Rag).

So this weekend it's finally, finally, all come together to produce something.
Congratulations, I've just GASed myself out of any possible remaining excuses to produce crap photos. From now on, I have nothing to blame but my own lack of skill.

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-tkDpX73/0/L/11w48grcs2800x2000-L.jpg (http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/30397696_tksKF3#!i=2619064366&k=tkDpX73&lb=1&s=A)

[Steve U]

Looks pretty good to me Doc.

I have learnt a lot reading this thread. To me with B&W, I either like the image or not, there are intangible factors that make me keep looking at an image, something that draws me in.

With the image above the footprints in the sand add a human touch to the almost alien presence of the rock formations. Compositionally I find it intriguing and a very good B&W.

I don't have a technical handle at all on the whys and wherefores of a great B&W, but for me it's an emotive thing that I either connect with or I don't and I either appreciate the photographers vision to process in B&W or I don't.

I would love to see more people processing this way and more examples posted on this site.

[conropl]

Thank you for starting this discussion. B&W is something I find myself drawn to more and more.

When I started photography, I did not see the reason for B&W; and I tended to over saturate (I still find myself doing that now and then). But then I started noticing there are times when B&W allowed me to convey what I was trying to show better than I could with color. In fact, I find myself converting to B&W more and more. I am fairly new at this... so these are some of my simplistic reasons for B&W (and the list keeps getting bigger).

For my own personal tast, there a few situations that seem to drive me towards B&W:


Low contrast / low color situation. Winter scenes and overcast days seem to work well in B&W because you can get more texture out of the snow or clouds by adding contrast without getting the effect of to much noise like you would get pushing the contrast on color photos. This is a exaple of what I am talking about...


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8188/8419449039_8780ca002c_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60479608@N05/8419449039/)
Manistee Lighthouse B&W-4176 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60479608@N05/8419449039/) by westmichigan (http://www.flickr.com/people/60479608@N05/), on Flickr


When you want something to to have a vintage look (look old). I like old things, and like talking pictures of them; but the color photos just look wrong. As an example, every year I go to and Old Engine Show - it is a big event where people from all over the midwest bring their old steam traction engines (old steam tractors), old trucks, and they have working steam engine trains. Here is an example of a steam engine (I actually like another version that I have where the blue sky was turned dark to get the clouds to show up better):


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8295/7805458960_3277e4d7c0_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60479608@N05/7805458960/)
Train - Steam Engine-8064 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60479608@N05/7805458960/) by westmichigan (http://www.flickr.com/people/60479608@N05/), on Flickr


Portraits to make skin problems go away. I suck at portraits, and I found it difficult to remove acne without making the skin look fake... I have family members with severe acne issues, and it is difficult to deal with. B&W also helps to take care of some of shadows due to pour lighting (another failing of mine). This is not a great reason to use B&W, but it does help. Here is one I like... it was not an acne issue, but the texture of the skin was a little off, and I just liked the look of the B&W version.


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7193/6933145099_8aca3d4ba3_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60479608@N05/6933145099/)
A Mothers Love-9409 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60479608@N05/6933145099/) by westmichigan (http://www.flickr.com/people/60479608@N05/), on Flickr


Reduce distractions and just enjoy the form. I have found that nature has a way producing some very beautiful forms, and sometimes it is just nice to enjoy the form in a way that eliminates all the distractions so you can enjoy the pure form. As an example, I love the look of roses and how the peddles come together in the center. I took so many pictures of roses, but it was always about the color and not the form. So I turned it to B&W, and reduced the sharpness to create a soft form. This has turned into my favorite rose.


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8344/8173133575_ce4f0e7fa1_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60479608@N05/8173133575/)
Rose-2839 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60479608@N05/8173133575/) by westmichigan (http://www.flickr.com/people/60479608@N05/), on Flickr

These are only my own musings. I find myself converting to B&W more and more, and I find myself looking for subjects for B&W compositions. I am not trying to suggest these are good reasons or the only reasons for B&W, but I would like to hear more peoples motivation for B&W... be it artistic, or to solve a photographic/compositional need.

[iND]

This is a technique for B&W conversion is one that I use in Photoshop
It uses Channel Mixer

I chose this photo outside the Pompidou in Paris because it covers a yellow red green blue spectrum
and has a good chance of covering a wide gray scale when converted.

1912

Hopefully you can click on this and enlarge it.
Notice the wide range of color.

For this conversion I am using Photoshop.
I skipped RAW editing for simplicity.
Opened the photo and created an adjustment layer
Layer/Adjustment Layer/Channel mixer/OK

Choose monochrome on the pop up
then adjust BLUE/GREEN/RED SLIDERS.
Notice how the Blues end up being the blacks,
Yellows and Reds are white
Greens are midtones grays.

1913


I did two additional adjustments
Layers/Adjustment Layer/Levels
and
Layers/Adjustment Layer/Curves

The resulting histogram reaches the left black and the right white end of the spectrum
and the middle portion of the histogram is rather flat.
Thus this photo no has a wide spectrum of the gray scale.
Is this the best result? Not necessarily
But it does illustrate one of the many methods of B&W conversion available (at least in Photoshop)
and it again points out that blues go to black, greens to midtones, and reds/yell to white
Hope this helps in your B&W shot selection.

[rlriii13]

My wife took this one and I tried to do the post on it. I think the face/hair/head offer good contrast for a B&W, but I don't like how midtone the shirt appears. On the other hand, perhaps this will help draw the eye to the face. Suggestions?

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5323/9231426799_b48ac83275_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rlriii13/9231426799/)
130602-0060-JAR.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rlriii13/9231426799/) by rlriii13 (http://www.flickr.com/people/rlriii13/), on Flickr

[conropl]

My wife took this one and I tried to do the post on it. I think the face/hair/head offer good contrast for a B&W, but I don't like how midtone the shirt appears. On the other hand, perhaps this will help draw the eye to the face. Suggestions?

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5323/9231426799_b48ac83275_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rlriii13/9231426799/)
130602-0060-JAR.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rlriii13/9231426799/) by rlriii13 (http://www.flickr.com/people/rlriii13/), on Flickr

What color is the shirt and stripes? Take the sliders for those colors and increase/decrease the intensity of the colors. Even Lightroom will allow you to do so.

[rlriii13]

Thanks for the tip. I'll try that out.

But, seeing as this thread contains discussion about B&W philosophies in practice, I suppose I'd like to ask, "Should I?" Should I adjust the shirt, or would more contrast draw attention away from the face? Is it ok to leave something that fills up one quarter of the frame so grey? How would my TDP folks handle this B&W situation?

[conropl]

Personally... I would leave the shirt alone for the reasons you already gave, but I would see what it would look like to darken the bow on the collar (it is a detail that seems a little lost).

[iND]

I am of the opinion that the shirt makes up 30-50 % of the pixels and my eye IS drawn away from the face to the shirt.
I like the contrast in the face and the backgound with its bokeh.
The shirt probably some light greens, to yellows, and some light reds.
A shirt with some blue would have provided some pixels for contrast, but we usually can't pick such things.
You could crop if that suited you or since the shirt has some nice texture try a light burn tool to increase contrast.

[Steve U]

I think the main distraction in this shot is the dark background just to the left. The mottled background on the right gives a more pleasant transition to the face. And it is the darker greater contrast of the background on the left that accentuates the lightness of the shirt. I think the shirt and the face contrast well together in a pleasing balance.

[Dave Throgmartin]

I don't have any hard rules applied towards B&Ws, but more approach it on a case by case basis. A couple of mine before and after over the past few months:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8253/8645783326_b08aeaa5fe_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68255851@N05/8645783326/)
2013_04_07_0254_upd_bw (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68255851@N05/8645783326/) by dthrog00 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68255851@N05/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8394/8644684355_2474a6e8f5_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68255851@N05/8644684355/)
2013_04_07_0254_upd (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68255851@N05/8644684355/) by dthrog00 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68255851@N05/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7296/9205898310_fef3ef5550_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68255851@N05/9205898310/)
2013_05_29_1953-1_bw_upd (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68255851@N05/9205898310/) by dthrog00 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68255851@N05/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5444/9203114051_33e8937ef7_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68255851@N05/9203114051/)
2013_05_29_1953-1_upd (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68255851@N05/9203114051/) by dthrog00 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68255851@N05/), on Flickr

I usually prefer my B&W images punchy. I usually start with one of the PSE 10 presets and then tweak levels to give it bite. The classics for B&W I think are geometric shapes or patterns and vintage scenes as was mentioned previously.

Thanks for viewing.
Dave

[rlriii13]

I agree with you Steve. I wish that wasn't part of the background as well. Maybe one day I'll take the time to come back to this image and try to remove that distraction.

Thanks for all the opinions. I spent another 5 minutes with it tonight and here's what I got. I certainly like this better than the original. I feared that it would pull your eyes away from the face, and after my initial adjustment of the shirt, it was too dark, and I did catch myself distracted. So, I backed it off some and here's the result:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5323/9231426799_be917ed0d6.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rlriii13/9231426799/)
130602-0060-JAR.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rlriii13/9231426799/) by rlriii13 (http://www.flickr.com/people/rlriii13/), on Flickr

[rlriii13]

Dave, your waterfall conversion is interesting because the first things I noticed in the color version were the streaks of brown-orange in the falls. In the black and white, that's a lost detail. Perhaps you wanted it gone.

[Dave Throgmartin]

I could see a case easy way for the color of the water. I think I like the B&W better mostly due to the appearance of the clouds and maybe a bit more depth.

I like your updated edit with the presence the bow now has.

Dave