Mirrorless

[iND]

What is Canon's current thinking in the mirrorless market.
My thought is a camera or system to complement my 5DIII system as a
smaller nonintrusive journalistic tool.

Thanks

[Busted Knuckles]

I just saw an article that indicated that they might be bringing the M-2 to the U.S. after first declining to do so.

I was just at the local best bugs and saw the sony a-7. it is really small.

With dual pixel perhaps speeding up autofocus, perhaps the day of the mirror are numbered.

[neuroanatomist]

I think the biggest impediment is that the quality of EVFs isn't yet where it needs to be, to supplant the OVF.

[Haydn1971]

Whilst the M has is big faults and annoyances, the great plus is being able to slap any EF lens on it with the adaptor and it works

[Haydn1971]

Although... I look at the Fuji range of amazing fast lenses and kick myself sometimes ;-)

[iND]

Have you put your hands on a Fuji mirrorless?

[neuroanatomist]

Whilst the M has is big faults and annoyances, the great plus is being able to slap any EF lens on it with the adaptor and it works



Although... I look at the Fuji range of amazing fast lenses and kick myself sometimes ;-)

At this point, it depends on your intent. If you want a mirrorless *system*, Canon isn't the best choice (at least for now - that will change if they continue to develop the line, but they're really just entering the market).

But, if you want a small camera for occasional use that *integrates* with the system you currently use (assuming that's Canon), then the EOS M is a great choice. A large sensor in a small body (very compact with the 22/2 pancake), functions as a very portable backup body, great for occasional use.

[Kayaker72]

What is Canon's current thinking in the mirrorless market.
My thought is a camera or system to complement my 5DIII system as a
smaller nonintrusive journalistic tool.

Thanks

My guess is that they are wondering if there is enough of a market to justify the expenditures/R&D and still make enough of a profit.

The EOS-M takes a lot of heat, but I like mine. It does exactly what I wanted it too do. It replaces my P&S camera for when I want something small and gives me much better IQ performance in the process. I would consider the IQ with the EF-M lenses on par with the 7D and the EFS 15-85. Times that I have used it include parties, dinners out, and having a wider angle option on a "second body" when I have the 100-400L mounted on my 5DIII. This includes some kayak trips and some birding trips. I am also glad to have it for trips as my back up body if something were to ever happen to the 5DIII. That said, I don't often find myself using it. Maybe a 6-8 times since last summer. But it works well. The AF is faster than my P&S, so I am happy enough with it.

A few examples of shots from the EOS-M:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3811/10009210364_21ed4c8a39_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kayaker72/10009210364/)
small-3332 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kayaker72/10009210364/) by kayaker72 (http://www.flickr.com/people/kayaker72/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/9455823719_e1d553aefe_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kayaker72/9455823719/)
small-2860 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kayaker72/9455823719/) by kayaker72 (http://www.flickr.com/people/kayaker72/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7364/9469891866_3a0b1e56f3_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kayaker72/9469891866/)
small-2903 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kayaker72/9469891866/) by kayaker72 (http://www.flickr.com/people/kayaker72/), on Flickr

But I agree with others, there are better "systems" out there. And one of the Sony FF cameras that can take EF lenses with adaptors would be awefully tempting (they weren't available when I bought the EOS-M). They are also more expensive. So the M works for me and I am happy to have it.

[Jayson]

I agree that there are other systems out there. I enjoy my M very much. Instead of trekking all over the place with my DSLR, I prefer to take my M where I can. I pretty much have it with me at all times. With the zoom, you can have it in a very tiny bag. 22mm, you can even put it in your pocket. The noise levels are better than that on my 7D. My needs might be different than yours, but the M is the ideal camera to take for my vacations. I have 3 kids to keep track of and toting a big camera and lens just isn't feasible.

[Sean Setters]

I'm really happy with my EOS M too. And for the $300.00 I paid for it & the EF-M 22mm STM, I think it was a bargain. I use it as a point-and-shoot replacement. IQ is much better than my phone, and it's much more capable in low-light. It's great for dinner parties because it doesn't intimidate guests like my 5D III or 7D would.

[iND]

The IQ of those photos is impressive.
I will have to go do my homework.
I assume it will accept most of my canon lenses.
Any comment on AF speed, Shutter noise, and write speed?

[Kayaker72]

AF speed: In normal light, even low light, I'd say I typically get lock in 0.5 to 1 seconds. I do have the AF beam enabled, so in very low light or low contrast, it may take longer without the beam. I have found it to be much faster than live view, so if that is what you are thinking it is much faster.

Shutter noise: There is a beeping sound when you have AF lock that can be disabled. There is a clicking sound each time you take a shot. It is pretty quiet.

Write speed: It is going to an SD card. I just did a test and only got 4-5 RAW shots before it slowed. But it never really slowed shooting large JPG shots.

Hope that helps.

[iND]

Kayaker, Sean, and Others

How much post processing did you do on those photos.
Are you shooting in RAW
Did you consider or research any other mirrorless products?
What lenses have you used with the M.
Have you used a pancake style to keep the profile small?(part of the purpose of going mirrorless)
Sean you state you use the 22mm, how is the IQ and how is the AF speed. Are you getting 0.5-1 sec that Kayaker reports?
Do you find that AF speed limiting?

[Sean Setters]

Sean you state you use the 22mm, how is the IQ and how is the AF speed. Are you getting 0.5-1 sec that Kayaker reports?
Do you find that AF speed limiting?

I have a third party EF-M to EF adapter (which works just fine), but I typically only use the 22mm STM (and the 90EX flash every so often). Image quality using the 22mm lens is quite good. I couldn't tell you how fast the AF is exactly, but it's more than fast enough for my purposes. The firmware update where Canon increased the AF speed helped tremendously, from what I hear (but mine came with the new firmware pre-installed). And no, I don't find the AF limiting.

[neuroanatomist]

I shoot RAW, DxO has profiles for the EF-M lenses. I shoot mainly with the 22mm f/2 pancake. A big part of my reason for getting the EOS M was for use as a backup camera for travel.

[Kayaker72]

I shoot RAW. LR also has the conversions for the EF-M lenses. I own both the 22 mm f/2 pancake and the EF-M 18-55. I tend to shoot with the EF-M 18-55 more than the 22 mm pancake, when I do use the M. It is still a very small camera even with the EF-M 18-55 mounted. A bit more awkward than with the 22 mm. But the IQ with both lenses is very impressive.

I've looked at other mirrorless systems. There are two primary reasons I went with the M over other systems:

Price. I missed the $299 deal, but got a deal for $400 kit including the M, EF-M 18-55 and EX 90 flash. Other systems I looked at (Oly/Fuji) were about twice as expensive, or more.
EF Adapter. I am not so concerned about actually using my EF lenses with the M on a regular basis, that would negate its size benefit and really the two lenses are very nice. This is more that the EOS-M can serve as a back up camera while traveling. That is huge for me and is the concept that put me over the edge for buying the M.


There are so many different systems out there right now. I bet most of us have considered the Sony a7R with an EF adapter (Metabones etc). But you are looking at $2,750 and I am not to the point where that is the best place to spend my money. Not sure it ever will be, actually. But it is fun to think about.

[Jayson]

I shoot RAW. LR also has the conversions for the EF-M lenses. I own both the 22 mm f/2 pancake and the EF-M 18-55. I tend to shoot with the EF-M 18-55 more than the 22 mm pancake, when I do use the M. It is still a very small camera even with the EF-M 18-55 mounted. A bit more awkward than with the 22 mm. But the IQ with both lenses is very impressive.

I've looked at other mirrorless systems. There are two primary reasons I went with the M over other systems:

Price. I missed the $299 deal, but got a deal for $400 kit including the M, EF-M 18-55 and EX 90 flash. Other systems I looked at (Oly/Fuji) were about twice as expensive, or more.
EF Adapter. I am not so concerned about actually using my EF lenses with the M on a regular basis, that would negate its size benefit and really the two lenses are very nice. This is more that the EOS-M can serve as a back up camera while traveling. That is huge for me and is the concept that put me over the edge for buying the M.



Same reason I went with the M. However, I wasn't going to spend much on mine since I was basically going to use it as a stay in the car camera and vacation camera. I purchased mine in the kit with the kit zoom. Now I use the thing all of the time where I am not going to be tracking moving objects. The new firmware they came out with made the focus much faster if you are using it in one shot mode. I don't even attempt anything other than that. I still shoot my movies manual zooming because I can't stand the implementation of the auto focus during movie mode. Now if they somehow do release the M2 in the US and it has dual pixel whatever, then I wouldn't hesitate. I don't have the pancake, but use it with my EF 35mm f/2 (old one) all the time. I use a 3rd party adapter from fotodiox and have basically used every lens I own with that thing. I went with the fotodiox because it was the cheapest of the bunch and I wasn't sure I was going to keep the camera. I don't regret either decision.

I shoot in RAW also and use LR5 for my conversions. I didn't upgrade to CS6 or the cloud so I have to make everything into another format if I intend to do any work on them in photoshop which is a pain. I strapped a couple of TC with the adapter to a 300mm f/4L IS for this. Looks pretty good.

http://www.alderimages.com/img/s8/v80/p1740371147-4.jpg (http://www.alderimages.com/nature/e67bbf4cb)

on used the kit zoom on a roller coaster ride for this shot.

http://www.alderimages.com/img/s9/v87/p1634071788-4.jpg (http://www.alderimages.com/landscape/e6165f4ec)

I mainly use it for pictures of my family and kids so I don't post much that I do with it. Overall I really like my M and wouldn't give it up (unless someone gave me the M2).

[iND]

Jayson

How much post did you do with the coaster photo?
Was that with a 22mm
If the M has a pano capability, have you used it?

Thanks

[Jayson]

I am generally a minimalist in my post processing. I did some shadow and highlight stuff in LR5, but tried the trial for NIK software and did their sunlight filter which gave it the orange glow on the coasters. I liked it so I kept it as is. I shot the photo with the kit zoom at 18mm (I haven't purchased the 22mm yet). I can't see the metadata since I have moved it to the external drive and my jpegs only get the copyright and contact, but I believe it was around ISO 400 at f5.6 or f/8. I tried to HDR it at first but moving on the coaster track didn't make that workout. The M doesn't have any fancy stuff like in camera HDR or pano capability. It basically is like the t4i, I believe, with it's features. You have to use it like the older cameras. Take 5 to 10 photos and stitch in post. We had a thread with shots from the M here (http://community.the-digital-picture.com/showthread.php?t=7394). I know there is one of FM also I have participated in. It is a little longer.

It's a great little image making machine for not much money.

[M_Six]

I like my EOS-M, but this new FujiFilm X-T1 (http://goo.gl/Q4J1d2) looks ready to set the mirrorless market on its ear. Gotta like built-in focus peaking. I love the top dials for control and this is the only camera on the market that can make use of the new UHS-II SD cards that can write at 250Mb/s. It says this will shoot at 8fps continuously. I wonder if that's RAW or JPEG.

I'm looking forward to some reviews on this one.

[neuroanatomist]

Going on a family vacation next week, I just ordered the EF-M 18-55 for the trip (I have the 22/2 pancake already). I ordered the Lowepro Dashpoint 30 for the combo thanks to Bryan's review (I have the Dashpoint 20, ideal for the M+22).

I'm also bringing the 1D X, 24-70/2.8 II, 16-35/2.8L II (might be its last use before I swap it for the new 16-35/4L IS), and 70-300L. But...we've got young kids and thus mostly daytime activities, I expect the little EOS M will see a lot of use.

[Kayaker72]

It's a great lens and combination. I hope you enjoy it. I prefer it to the 22 f/2.

The fit in the Dashpoint 30 is tight side to side, especially with a filter attached, but face down works pretty well. Have a great vacation.

[Haydn1971]

After lugging my 6D, 16-35, 24-70, 70-300 and accessories including tripod to Majorca a few weeks back through the airport for a few holiday snaps, I'll be seriously reconsidering my options over the next few months - 6D and full kit great when I have the car, but also following the new flight checks introduced in the UK this week, I'm dreading unpacking my full kit in the airport scanning area :-/

I've been waiting on a "better" option than the 18-55 to go with my 22, like a pancake zoom or a longer reach but given I'm seeing 18-55's for £80 on eBay (used) and £100 on Amazon (new) - it's time to stop waiting... Right, where's my card

[neuroanatomist]

The fit in the Dashpoint 30 is tight side to side, especially with a filter attached, but face down works pretty well. Have a great vacation.

Thanks! The fit as a 'mini Toploader' is fine, even with the EW-54 hood mounted in the 'in-use' position.

[Busted Knuckles]

So now I am member of the "M" club. Bit on the $250 w/ 22 f2.0 special.

Was able to play a little today and suffice to say quite impressed. Focus is fast enough for tourist pics, etc, certainly not a sports camera (Duh). The 22/f2 is a very nice lens.

I played w/ the Tamzooka (you know I had to), the Sigma 50 A (actually pretty easy just to hold the lens and drive lightly w/ the right hand) and the 22mm

Really a ton of imaging quality for what amounts to $120 for the body. Also runs Magic Lantern so I think this is going to be my timelapse camera.

Link to the test pics on flickr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77760916@N05/

[Busted Knuckles]

Bumping the thread for the link.

The "M" is a fun camera. There is a vast difference between the M and what would be considered the "Pro" level of the Micro 4/3 market or the Sony from a feature set - BUT when worked within its feature envelop - which for other than sports seems to be pretty large. It has the same sensor as anything other than the 70D or 7DII.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77760916@N05/

[conropl]

So now I am member of the "M" club. Bit on the $250 w/ 22 f2.0 special.


I thought seriously about getting one when saw the latest sale with the 22mm. But hardly have enough time to shot what I have lately.

Pat

Sent via taptalk

[Busted Knuckles]

now that the weather in FL is getting barely civil I will start shooting more on the weekends. I plan to take the M w/ me on my business travels. I have been traversing Northern GA and S.C. the last couple of months and there are some pretty nice rivers, etc that I have had to pass on as taking the "big gear" is simply just too much.

This is soooo small that w/ the 22 and the 40 (with adapter) likely to sit in a bag next to the door and may be with me a big percentage of the time... I hope

[iND]

First of all I must say I have a small fortune invested in canon lenses, bodies, flashes and triggers for my professional photography.

But for travel I want something less obtrusive.
So I invested in mirrorless.

On a recent travel to Greece and the Islands I did take my canon gear but brought a mirrorless for walk around.

This was a very nice experience.
I was no longer a photographer.
I was a tourist, I was a street photographer, I was stealth.

Now home in post processing I am very pleased.
I have to look at the data screen to see which shots were with which camera system.

I love the retro look, I love the range finder, I love the no noise.
I love not sticking out.
I love not having to choose a lens and concentrate on the composition and the exposure settings.

I did not invest in the Canon M,
I traveled with a Fuji X100S with a fixed lens.

This will not take the place of my canon system for work, but will be my new walk around.
I have no plans to get into the Fuji interchangable lens systems.
With the Canon 5DIII and the Fuji X100S I feel I have two of the best cameras in the world.
They just are for different assignments.

I have images I would never had been able to take with the Canon.

This has really changed things.

Try it.

I may been kicked off the site for talking Fuji praises, but this is real.
I have lost all interest in looking at a Leica system after this experience.
.

[Kayaker72]

I did not invest in the Canon M,
I traveled with a Fuji X100S with a fixed lens.

I may been kicked off the site for talking Fuji praises, but this is real.
I have lost all interest in looking at a Leica system after this experience.
.

I've heard good things about the Fuji. Glad to hear it has worked out for you.