portable lighting kit on a budget, sigma vs canon speedlites, pocket wizards etc...

[johnker]

I'm just getting back into photography and I'mbuildinga potable lighting kit to shoot portraits of bands while I am on the road. If you have ever seen "confessions of a professional photographer" on you tube, I am trying to emulate his set up. I'd like to have 2 remote flash units for lighting, so my question is... Should I buy high end canon flashes or can I get away with sigmas? And... what is the best way to wirelessly trigger my flashes, is there an alternative to pocket wizards? Being a musician/photographer means I'm on a seriously tight budget. I have done tons ofresearchon the internet, just looking for some human feedback and suggestions! Thanks!

[devsalvi]

I read Bryan's review on 580exII and decided to give it a try. It has worked great for me so far. I would not think of buying any other flash for canon cameras. I just ordered my second flash, another 580exII and the remote transmitter st-e2. Some of the things you buy from canon, you will not regret, like this flash or the L series lenses.





Cheers!


Dev

[Joel Bookhammer]

I would use the Canon flashes, they work great and they are built to last. I use Cactus V2s for the wireless flash setup. I think that there is a newer version of them now, they arenot as well built as the PW's but for a fraction of a cost they work for me.


thanks


joel

[johnker]

thanks for the tip! the cactus V2 looks amazing for the price, found a review and link to www.gadgetinfinity.com i'lldefinitelybe picking some of these up!

[jea lee]

i mount a 580ex2 on my 5d mk1 and sync it to two 430ex flashes. works great.

[peety3]

Start with two Canon 580EX II flashes. Use one on-camera and one off-camera. Either through the camera or on the master flash, you can control the remote flash either through E-TTL or manual power settings. See if you can become comfortable with manual flash in such a way that you wouldn't need to walk over to the remote flash(es) to adjust power. If so, many of the triggering tools out there would be great. If you're better off using E-TTL, consider a third Canon flash as your B remote. If manual flash is OK, various triggers that only signal "Flash now!" will be OK.

[Jayson]

Joel,


When you use the Cactus system, do you have to use your flash on manual mode or can you use it as normal? I have been looking at the PW but this might be a good alternative.


Thanks,


Jayson

[Sean Setters]

A flash is a flash. If you're using it off-camera, and can live with manually adjusting your power, then the only reason to get a 580EX II over a (much) cheaper flash is the power (guide number). With todays cameras shooting at ISO 200 with very little noise, the extra flash power isn't as necessary as it once was (in my opinion).


As far as triggering the flash, your budget will be the deciding factor in what range your triggers will have and how reliably they trigger.


On the low end, I'd suggest the CTR-301 ("http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=CTR-301&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_odkw=CTR-301p&_osacat=0) or the CTR-301p ("http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=CTR-301p&_sacat=See-All-Categories). They're relatively cheap, and don't require any extra wires because the flash simply slides into the trigger's hotshoe. I think the added PC sync port of the CTR-301p would be relatively useless to you at this stage, however, they're a slightly newer product and may be slightly better made than the original CTR-301 (I don't know, though). If you buy a set of these, you'll need to choose an umbrella swivel carefully because you'll want one with a threaded (1/4" if I remember) stud instead of a shoe connector.


For a good middle-of-the-road option, you can't beat CyberSyncs ("http://alienbees.com/remotes.html). The products you'd need are the CST ("http://alienbees.com/cybersync.html#cst) (transmitter) and the CSRB ("http://alienbees.com/cybersync.html#csrb) (receiver) units. They're made by Paul C. Bluff (of Alien Bees/White Lightning) in Nashville, TN. They're basically as reliable as PocketWizards, but don't have the same range (400-600' instead of the 1600' range of PocketWizards). If you need substantially more range than the length of a football field, then you need the PocketWizards. And if you need the PocketWizards, then you probably don't have any issues paying for them. You'll need a way to connect the receivers to the flash. The best option is to buy a hotshoe adapter ("http://www.flashzebra.com/hotshoes-shoes/index.shtml) from FlashZebra ("http://www.flashzebra.com/) (with the CyberSyncs, I'd personally suggest item #0128 ("http://www.flashzebra.com/products/0128/index.shtml)).


And on the high end, as you know, PocketWizards ("http://www.pocketwizard.com/). I'm not even going to go on about them because I think they're economically unreasonable for anyone who doesn't make a living doing photography. They are fantastic, but the price is steep.


And if you want to learn more about off-camera flash, check out the Strobist ("http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/) blog and specifically Lighting 101 ("http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html). They are invaluable resources. The blogger, David Hobby, recommends using PocketWizards because of their reliability. However, for most of us, one of the cheaper options above will do just fine.

[johnker]

sean thank you for the feedback! much appreciated, I have checked out all of the links

[Joel Bookhammer]

Hey John I use them in manual mode, I havent tried it in the other modes. I find them to be extremely reliable for the price.


thanks


joel

[Sean Setters]

To Jayson-


By and large, most radio flash triggering solutions only transmit one command, "FIRE!!" You have to adjust the flash power manually (either by adjusting the output of the flash, or by adjusting the distance of the flash to the subject). It takes some getting used to, but it works great once you get the hang of it.


The new PocketWizard Flex units will transmit ETTL data so that you can adjust your flash units from a master flash on your camera. That said, the earliest reports indicate that PocketWizards somewhat rushed the product to the market before fully testing them. The reliability and range of the units seem to be very "un-PocketWizards-like." The RadioPopper PX system transmits the ETTL data as well, and they have quite a loyal following. The only complaints with RadioPopper PX units usually focus on the mounting (the receiver units must be mounted to the flash in order to work properly). RadioPoppers are going to address that issue soon enough when they release a bracket mount that will make the standard issue velcro a thing of the past.


Now, the biggest problem with using the new PocketWizard Flex and RadioPopper PX units is that they require you to buy expensive flashes. For the price of one 580EX II, I can buy 3 cheaper flashes that don't have ETTL capabilities.

[Sean Setters]

To Jayson-


By and large, most radio flash triggering solutions only transmit one command, "FIRE!!" You have to adjust the flash power manually (either by adjusting the output of the flash, or by adjusting the distance of the flash to the subject). It takes some getting used to, but it works great once you get the hang of it.


The new PocketWizard Flex units will transmit ETTL data so that you can adjust your flash units from a master flash on your camera. That said, the earliest reports indicate that PocketWizards somewhat rushed the product to the market before fully testing them. The reliability and range of the units seem to be very "un-PocketWizards-like." The RadioPopper PX system transmits the ETTL data as well, and they have quite a loyal following. The only complaints with RadioPopper PX units usually focus on the mounting (the receiver units must be mounted to the flash in order to work properly). RadioPoppers are going to address that issue soon enough when they release a bracket mount that will make the standard issue velcro a thing of the past.


Now, the biggest problem with using the new PocketWizard Flex and RadioPopper PX units is that they require you to buy expensive flashes. For the price of one 580EX II, I can buy 3 cheaper flashes that don't have ETTL capabilities.

[Rodger]

I know almost nothing about remote flash photography and I don't mean to change the subject of this thread but what is the difference between TTL and ETTL flash capabilities?


From what I gather, ETTL allows you to change the flash settings like power, from the camera, while TTL does not.

[George Slusher]

Preliminary note: prices shown are from the B&H site where possible. You may be able to find the gear cheaper elsewhere, especially used gear on eBay, but using B&H gives a "standard" price.


You should check out the Strobist ("http://strobist.blogspot.com/) site, as it's all about this topic. (Look for the "Lighting 101 Archive" pop-up on the right side.) Their usual recommendations would not include any ETTL flash--Canon or Sigma, as they aren't all that well-suited for simple remote use, especially on a budget, unless your "budget" is well over $1000 (as much as $2000!) versus $400-500. With either the Canon 580EX II ("http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/486706-USA/Canon_1946B002_580EX_II_Flash.html) ($420) or the Sigma 530 DG Super ("http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/515353-REG/Sigma_169_101_EF_530_DG_Super_Flash.html) ($219)--do NOT get the "ST" version, you have three options:


1. Use Canon's "wireless" system (infrared). This can work IF

The flashes are fairly close to each other/

It's indoors. (They do not work very well outdoors, unless they are pretty close and directly face the transmitter.)

The flash sensors can see each other directly (line of sight)
You have compatible flashes.



If you want to use BOTH flashes off the camera, you'll also need the Canon ST-E2 transmitter ($220). The Sigma flashes will "work" with the ST-E2, but not fully: setting "ratios" from the ST-E2 may not work well.


Total cost: 2 @ $420 + $220 = $1060 (not including stands, umbrellas, etc.)


2. Use them with expensive TTL "relays" like the Radio Popper or the new Pocket Wizard devices. That gets rid of the line of sight issues at the expense of, well, EXPENSE. (Also, the Pocket Wizards, at least, may not work well with Sigma flashes.) The Pocket Wizards would cost $199 (MiniTT1 transmitter for the camera) + 2 @ $219 (FlexTT5 for the flashes) = $637 plus the two flashes ($840), or $1477. (You could get a new camera for that!) The RadioPoppers are more expensive--$249 for the transmitter and receivers, for $747 plus the two flashes ($840), or $1587.


3. Use them with off-camera triggers, whether the Cactus-type (or the even-cheaper systems you can find on eBay) or the more capable (much longer-range, more reliable) types like the Pocket Wizards. However, in that case, why would you use Canon flashes? You'll pay hundreds of dollars for the E-TTL capabilities, only to not use them. Sounds rather silly to me. (Side note: E-TTL is Canon's terminology for the system used by modern cameras, including almost all digital SLRs and top-end Point-and-Shoot cameras. E-TTL II is a further refinement. TTL referred to the system used by older film cameras.)


Cost (max), using Pocket Wizards: 2 @ $420 (Canon 580EX II) + 3 @ $159 (PWs--you need one for the camera) = $1317.


Cost using Sigma flashes & the Chinese triggers I bought: 2 @ $219 + $25 (transmitter + receiver) ("http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330282214855) + $18 (receiver ("http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330282214855)) = $481. (You might also want to get hot shoe adapters ("http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/89982-REG/Hama_HA_6952_Hot_Shoe_Adapter_2.html) for the umbrella brackets, rather than mounting the Sigma flashes on the receivers, which is NOT very sturdy. The Sigma flashes don't have PC connectors, I believe.)


Again, those costs don't include the hardware (stands, umbrellas, umbrella brackets, etc).


Instead, the "Strobist" methodology uses simple, inexpensive non-dedicated flashes that have variable output settings in a "manual" or "preset" mode. The usual suspect is the Vivitar 285HV ("http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/61441-REG/Vivitar_233965_285HV_Auto_Flash.html) ($89.95 at B&H, but you can get used flashes for less on eBay: I paid $64 & $71, including shipping), which has a guide number of 120 ft at 35mm & ISO 100 (vs 118 ft for the Canon 580EX II at 35mm--yes, you'll see it listed as 190 ft, but that is with the flash zoomed to 105mm, and 115 ft for the Sigma at 35mm). The 285HV zooms (28-105mm) but does not swivel. You don't need them to swivel, as you can turn the stands any way you need to.


Cost using 285HV flashes & the Chinese triggers I bought: 2 @ $90 + $25 (transmitter + receiver) ("http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330282214855) + $18 (receiver) = $223. (It would be $657 with Pocket Wizards.)


You can also use cables, rather than radio triggers, to connect the camera to the flashes--check the Strobist site for ideas. (The most useful is the "household" system that uses regular household extension cords.) That really doesn't save any money compared to the cheap radio triggers, but it is a lot more reliable, if less flexible.


You'll also need lightstands, umbrellas, and umbrella mounts (swivels), which can vary a great deal in cost. (I paid $42.50 + SH for a Giottos 8' Air-Cushioned stand ("http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/82713-REG/Giottos_LC244_Air_Cushioned_Light_Stand.html) (36" closed, 8 ft tall, max load 13.2 lbs). I bought it because it has a VERY wide "footprint"--over 50" vs 30-36" for most light stands, so it will be more stable outdoors, where I'll be using it.) If you want ultra-portable gear, you'll have to pay a bit more for the stands, like the Bogen/Manfrotto 001B "Nano" stand (19" closed, 6 ft tall, max load 4 lbs) for $56.50 or, if you can accept a bit longer but want a sturdier stand, the Bogen/Manfrotto 305B Mini-Stacker Light Stand (25.2" closed, 7 ft tall, max load 9 lbs) for $75. You'll also want the collapsible umbrellas by Westcott--prices vary by the size and type (white satin, silver, etc), plus umbrella swivels (the Impact bracket ("http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298709-REG/Impact_3117_Umbrella_Bracket.html) at B&H is pretty good for $14).


So, here's a sample set-up for you, if you want to go ultra-portable--batteries not included! It would all fit into many gym bags:

2 Vivitar 285HV flashes @ $90 = $180
2 Bogen/Manfrotto 001B Nano light stands @ $56.50 = $113
Chinese radio triggers as above @ $25 + $18 = $43
2 Impact umbrella brackets @ $14 = $28
2 Westcott collapsible umbrellas, white satin (shoot through or reflect) @ $19.50 = $39 (another option would be their white umbrella with removable black cover, which works a bit better as a reflector--these are $25 each)

2 Westcott collapsible umbrellas, soft silver @ $19.50 = $39



The total would be $442, plus shipping; with only the white umbrellas, it would be $403. Notice that's about what ONE Canon 580EX II flash costs. You can substitute the somewhat-more-expensive Cactus triggers, Pocket Wizards, etc., as you wish. (I would suggest mounting the flash directly on the umbrella bracket, rather than on the receiver, and using the cable that comes with the flash to connect to the PC connector on the receiver.)


Another source is Midwest Photo Exchange ("http://www.mpex.com/), which sells components and complete kits. For example, they have a "Starving Students" 2-light kit ("http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,12322.html) for $439 that includes:

2 LumoPro LP120 flash (a bit more expensive than the Vivitar 285HV, but it swivels and has more flash power options)
2 Interfit 7.5 ft air-cushioned light stands (27" folded, max load 8.5 lbs from B&H site)
2 LumoPro umbrella swivels
2 Westcott 43" collapsible umbrellas, white satin
Strobist Rosco Color Effects Gel Pack ("http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,11815.html) (put the gels over the flashes to get various color effects; there are other sources)

Strobist Rosco Color Correction Gel Pack ("http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,5881.html) (used to correct flashes to match ambient light that isn't daylight--tungsten, fluorescent, etc)
Bongo ties (you can also get longer "ball bungee cords" at WalMart, etc.)
Gaffer's tape (always useful to have around!)
Cactus V2s trigger set (transmitter & one receiver--you'll need another ("http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,11444.html) for $25)
Rosco DIY kit ("http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,5880.html) (see the site)



That's a good deal if ultra-portability isn't that important to you. (27" folded is still fairly small, less than many tripods with heads.)


Of course, you can get a lot more doo-dads and gadgets, but these will handle a lot of situations. If you do a lot of flash shooting, you might consider getting USED Quantum turbo batteries and the appropriate cables. (I said "USED" because they are gadawful expensive new--$400+, but under $200 on eBay. (If the cell needs to be replaced, Quantum can do it or you can buy a cell and replace it.) Lumedyne also makes external batteries.


OK, having gone through all that, I would recommend that you get ONE E-TTL flash, not for remote use, but for on-camera (or on a bracket with the Canon Off-Camera Cord 3 ("http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/498744-REG/Canon_1950B001_OC_E3_Off_Camera_Shoe.html) for $70--don't get the el cheapo cords). They are very convenient and versatile in that mode. I started with a Sigma 500 DG Super flash (earlier model), then the off-camera cord and brackets, then I got a 580EX (previous model)--all on eBay (Sigma = $168, 580EX = $285, cord = $68, including shipping). Then, get the Strobist kit (or equivalent) for about the same price as another 580EX II.

[johnker]

George, your post was much appreciated. Great insight for me as my goal was so hit around $500-$700 for the set up. Thanks to all who posted I have learned so much researching the links, now it's time to sit on eBay for a while. Kijiji is amazing too although I find they never have flashes.

[Sean Setters]

I'd suggest looking for used flashes on ebay...but I wouldn't necessarily recommend buying other items (like light stands/umbrellas/etc) off of ebay. Alot of accessories like that for sale on ebay are very cheaply made and don't hold up as well as the more well-known brands. MPEX's house brand, LumoPro, is a good choice for a budget brand. I probably have a dozen LumoPro items and have been happy with all of them. The LumoPro LP606 ("http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,4727.html) is probably the best lightstand you can get for the money. They sent me two of them by mistake (I had ordered the LP604), but I loved them so much I kept them. I ordered a third one a few months ago. They see much more use than my Manfrotto 5001b ("http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,4944.html) nano lightstand, which costs substantially more.

[George Slusher]

I'd suggest looking for used flashes on ebay...but I wouldn't necessarily recommend buying other items (like light stands/umbrellas/etc) off of ebay. Alot of accessories like that for sale on ebay are very cheaply made and don't hold up as well as the more well-known brands.
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I agree. I bought one umbrella on eBay, but it was a Westcott collapsible white satin. I bought another like it plus two Photoflex hot silver adjustable frame umbrellas ("http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/42515-REG/Photoflex_UM_ADH45_Umbrella_with_Adjustable_Frame_ 45_.html), plus one Giottos stand (I already had a Dynatran stand from Amvona--not as nice, but also heavy duty with a wide footprint) and umbrella brackets from B&amp;H. I got the Photoflex because I read some rather negative reviews of the Westcott soft silver umbrellas. I probably would have gotten Photoflex white umbrellas with removable covers ("http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/42505-REG/Photoflex_UM_RUT45_45_Inch_Convertible_Umbrella.ht ml) except that I already had that Westcott umbrella. Eventually, I may get the smaller/lighter stands and collapsible silver umbrellas.


I checked MPEX before I bought from B&amp;H. Their prices were about the same--maybe a little bit higher, but their shipping was much higher. Also, I couldn't get the information I needed about their light stands, i.e., footprint. My first major use of the stands will be to take photos of the top winners at our 4-H Fair Horse Show in July. That will be outdoors and the stands will probably be on pavement. (I'm going to go to the Strobist site and ask for advice on where I should place the remote strobes and about using on-camera flash with the remotes.) The wide footprint (plus sandbags!) will help keep the stands stable, though, if we get much wind, I can take the umbrellas off and use turn the flashes around to face the subject. It won't be as good, but should be better than on-camera flash, alone.

[devsalvi]

Thanks George. That confirms my recent buys :D





Dev

[George Slusher]

Thanks George. That confirms my recent buys :D


I'm not sure how, as it seems that you bought two 580EX II flashes and the ST-E2 transmitter. [:P] That's rather the antithesis of the "strobist" mode I was describing. However, I also have two ETTL flashes (580EX &amp; Sigma 500 DG Super) and the ST-E2, myself, so I'm no one to talk. [:$] I also recently "upgraded" from the Super-Duper DP-8 radio triggers from jiakgong to Pocket Wizard Plus II transceivers. (Well, I have one transceiver in hand; two more are on the way. I paid $150.50 (unopened box), 135.50 &amp; 130.50, including shipping, versus $159 each at B&amp;H.)


It will be interesting to hear how your setup works out. The 580EX II + ST-E2 system has a lot of advantages (a bit simpler to set up, for example--just turn on the "slave" mode on the flashes, essentially), if it works. The problem I have is that it doesn't work outdoors very well, if at all. Indoors, where the signal can bounce off walls, it purportedly works a lot better. The main problem with the Strobist mode is that the flashes are in manual mode, so, if you move a light stand, you may have to reset the power output of the flash (or use a neutral density filter). When using two lights, that can be challenging. (I have a simple Shepherd/Polaris SPD100 digital light meter ("http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/93222-REG/Shepherd_Polaris_SPD100_Polaris_Digital_Meter.html ) that reads flash, as well as incident and reflected light, which can help get the flashes in the right ballpark, at least. That was yet another eBay purchase--$112.50 vs $179.95.)


On the other hand, part of the strobist "credo" is to experiment. Sometimes, "mistakes" turn out to be better than our original intention. Many moons ago (about 1979), I took a photo of a friend riding her Morgan gelding. The riding arena was on top (literally!) of a good-sized hill south of Los Angeles. (Palos Verdes, specifically Portuguese Bend, for those who know the area.) From the "drop-off" side of arena, we could see Catalina Island. (I've also seen waterspouts!) I was on the other side, so she and the horse were against the bright sky. Not thinking, I just matched the needle with my Nikon FM (FM = manual everything!)--can't recall the lens I used, probably 50mm or so. Of course, as she was backlit, the sky appears bright but she and the horse were silhouetted. It looked pretty neat--so neat, in fact, that several other people had me do similar shots of them. (One was a rather gorgeous blond who wanted her hair blowing in the wind. It took a lot of trials, but I got the shot.)

[devsalvi]

1. Use Canon's "wireless" system (infrared). This can work IF

The flashes are fairly close to each other/

It's indoors. (They do not work very well outdoors, unless they are pretty close and directly face the transmitter.)

The flash sensors can see each other directly (line of sight)
You have compatible flashes.



If you want to use BOTH flashes off the camera, you'll also need the Canon ST-E2 transmitter ($220). The Sigma flashes will "work" with the ST-E2, but not fully: setting "ratios" from the ST-E2 may not work well.
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Hi George,


This is what i was referring to. I had started to think that i have wasted a lot of money and was actually feeling kinda stupid :) But i guess i can work with two 580exII. The setup i have in mind was to fire two external flashes from either side of the subject. But the more I think about it, the ST-E2 seems to be a mistake. I will see if i can make it work or i will be selling it soon on Ebay :) In my very own hasty way, i overlooked that i could use one of the 580s to trigger the other one. Its the urge to get "that thing" which has to be controlled! :)





Thanks,


Dev

[George Slusher]

The usual suspect is the Vivitar 285HV ("http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/61441-REG/Vivitar_233965_285HV_Auto_Flash.html)





One VERY IMPORTANT caution, especially if you're looking for flashes on eBay. Note the "HV" in the model name. That can be critical. The 285HV is an update to the original 285. It has a lower trigger voltage (about 12 volts) that may be compatible with digital cameras and modern film cameras. (I wrote may because Canon says that many of its cameras don't like trigger voltages over 6 volts, so even the 285HV might be a bit too much on the camera hot shoe.


The original 285 (and its less-capable sister, the 283) has a very high trigger voltage, well over 100 volts. Putting a 285 or 283 on your camera could easily fry some circuits. Some radio triggers can't handle that voltage, either. The Pocket Wizards can handle up to 200 volts, so they can "insulate" the camera from a flash, even if the flash is connected to the same Pocket Wizard. (E.g., the PW is on the camera's hot shoe and connected to a flash via a cable.) I don't know about the receivers I got from jiakgong--their listing doesn't mention trigger voltage, though, given the "rough" translation they use, it might be hidden somewhere. The instruction sheet was in Chinese, but the little beasties are very easy to figure out. I have an old Sunpak flash that does have a high trigger voltage--I used it with my FM and, later, Minolta 35mm bodies, but I'm not willing to potentially fry an $18 receiver. You can contact MPEX to ask about the Cactus triggers they sell.


So, stick with the Vivitar 285HV or other flash that you can confirm has a low trigger voltage. Don't take a chance with your camera or triggers! You can check the trigger voltage for many flashes here ("http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html). You can get "Safe-Sync ("http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/245292-REG/Wein_W990560_Safe_Sync_Hot_Shoe_to.html)" devices to protect ("http://www.weinproducts.com/safesyncs.htm) the camera, as well. My approach, however, is to use the Vivitar flashes only off the camera. As I have a 580EX and Sigma 500 DG Super, I don't need to use the less-sophisticated Vivitars on my 30D.

[George Slusher]

Hi George,


This is what i was referring to. I had started to think that i have wasted a lot of money and was actually feeling kinda stupid :) But i guess i can work with two 580exII. The setup i have in mind was to fire two external flashes from either side of the subject. But the more I think about it, the ST-E2 seems to be a mistake. I will see if i can make it work or i will be selling it soon on Ebay :) In my very own hasty way, i overlooked that i could use one of the 580s to trigger the other one. Its the urge to get "that thing" which has to be controlled! :)





Thanks,


Dev
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If you don't use the ST-E2, you'll have to have one of the 580EX II's on the camera (or use an off-camera cord, but that's only about 3' long). One advantage of fixed off-camera strobes is that the light doesn't depend upon the camera position. You can move around for various angles and the lighting stays the same. With an on-camera flash, the light will change when you move. You're also limited in the direction of the light, unless you bounce the light indoors. If you're going to use on-camera flash, consider a flash bracket that will elevate the flash above the usual position. That will help reduce redeye and shadows.

[George Slusher]

Yet another tip. The Vivitar 285HV has a battery holder that you slip into the flash, rather than load individual batteries, like the Canon and Sigma flashes. You can get inexpensive battery holders on eBay. (I paid $10.64 for 3 holders.) I carry a loaded extra holder for each flash. You can use alkaline or NiMH rechargeable batteries--they both have advantages and disadvantages. I prefer NiMH, but carry a bunch (at least 8) of AA &amp; AAA alkaline batteries in my car, as I have several devices that use them--flash(es), triggers, Canon S3 IS, flashlights, etc., plus I have spare oddball batteries (e.g., for the Canon ST-E2 and the Chinese trigger transmitter, which uses the same battery as my garage door opener transmitter). Even a spare cable or two for the triggers would be good, as it's easy to lose a 1 ft-long thin black cord.


For the 580EX II (and other Canon flashes), Canon makes an external battery pack ("http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/498738-REG/Canon_1947B001_Compact_Battery_Pack_CP_E4.html) that holds 8 AA batteries. It's not cheap ($150), but a Quantum Turbo battery is a lot more. You can find cheaper imitations on eBay--some hold 6 batteries, instead of 8. (I got an earlier model, CP-E3, for $95.) An external battery pack can enable you to take more shots without replacing batteries and the flash will recycle faster. Be careful, though: you can overheat a flash if you take a lot of shots quickly. Check your flash's manual for specifics.

[peety3]

So here's my (previous) point: start with two Canon 580EX II flashes (if they're in your budget) and see if one 580 on-camera can trigger one 580 off-camera in your typical scenario. Also, see if you're OK with manual power levels, or whether your style of shooting is better handled by ETTL (mine typically needs ETTL). That should guide you towards the solution, whether ST-E2 (if Canon triggering is OK for you and you want ETTL), 580EX II (i.e. a third, using one on-camera as trigger because you want more functionality than ST-E2), basic triggers (several to choose from), or ETTL triggers (at least two to choose from).