Shying away from used gear

[Ehcalum]

So why do people tend to shy away from used gear? I personally have never had a problem with used equipment. Ive only every bought maybe 3 items new, a couple of minolta lenses a the time.

[Sean Setters]

People shy away from used gear because they don't know the history/exact condition of the item before purchase. Personally, I'm adamant about protecting my equipment and taking care of it. I know that, should I decide to sell any of it, the next owner will be getting items that were properly cared for. However, the next owner will simply have to take my word on that until they get the item in their hands. While many lenses last for years (and years), today's lenses are almost like cars--there's alot more that can malfunction than there was 20 years ago.


That said, I just bought a used Canon 430EZ (with case) yesterday from KEH for $35. I've got no problem buying used, especially from a reputable dealer with a decent return policy (should something not work as described).

[Ehcalum]

I hear you with some people just not taking care of gear, which is why I never buy ebay. I swear by KEH and have found the best deals with the BGN ratings.


Only problem with KEH is they tend to jack up shipping prices, but I live in VA so from order to recieve at my door is generally 2 days.

[Garrett-Grimsley]

I've only bought one lens new, the 50mm f/1.8 because it was so cheap. And I got my body two years ago from a store, didn't start getting lenses for about 6 months, when I saw how much I could save buying from ebay. I knew the risks, and I accepted them.


The rest I got off ebay for dirt cheap compared to their retail price. All the glass was crystal clear and only my 85mm f/1.8 had a slight wear on the plastic.





Like I got the 85mm for about $260, a old-ish but great Sigma 15-30mm for $315 and a 430EX for $180. If I don't trust the seller, I won't even bother watching the item. ie misslabeled information, lack of detailed photos of item, low rating, ect.

[Keith B]

I shy away from used because, most of the time the prices are not that much lower than new. If I'm only going to save $100 on a lens that is normally $1500, I'd rather pay the extra $100 and get brand new.


I'm not opposed to it if it is a substantial savings and the condition is close enough to new.

[Mark Elberson]

I shy away from used because, most of the time the prices are not that much lower than new. If I'm only going to save $100 on a lens that is normally $1500, I'd rather pay the extra $100 and get brand new.


I'm not opposed to it if it is a substantial savings and the condition is close enough to new.
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I agree. Refurbished gear at Adorama on the other hand appears to be new, is substantially cheaper, and come with a warrenty/return policy.

[Keith B]

I shy away from used because, most of the time the prices are not that much lower than new. If I'm only going to save $100 on a lens that is normally $1500, I'd rather pay the extra $100 and get brand new.


I'm not opposed to it if it is a substantial savings and the condition is close enough to new.
<div style="CLEAR:both;"]</div>









I agree. Refurbished gear at Adorama on the other hand appears to be new, is substantially cheaper, and come with a warrenty/return policy.






Yes. I would definitely go the refurb route. In fact I have been talking myself out of the 1D III they have for $2999 for over a month now.

[TSEvanson]

I just wanted to put my plug in for Adorama refurbished. My entire initial kit (1 body, 2 lenses)was refurbished, and as far as I could tell it was brand new, not a single mark or scratch. I saved a considerable amount of money; the same equipment purchased brand new locally would have been at least $300-$400 more. My only complaint is their shipping prices to Canada, but I bought back when the Canadian dollar was good, so in the end it was well worth it.

[Dallasphotog]

I just wanted to put my plug in for Adorama refurbished. My entire initial kit (1 body, 2 lenses)was refurbished, and as far as I could tell it was brand new, not a single mark or scratch. I saved a considerable amount of money; the same equipment purchased brand new locally would have been at least $300-$400 more. My only complaint is their shipping prices to Canada, but I bought back when the Canadian dollar was good, so in the end it was well worth it.
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Same experience... Adorama's refurbished stuff is great. I built my daughter's whole kit (except the body) from Adorama refurbished gear. Her tear sheets cover most of the major newspapers and magazines in the area, so the gear must work OK. LOL

[Desslok]

You know, if I'm going to drop five hundred bones on a piece of equipment, I want to be the one that breaks the seals myself. Hell, it bugs me when friends get their fingers all over my toys first, let alone a stranger!





Just call it my OCD side. (:

[Benjamin]

I agree to the point that used gears (especially L lenses) are sold not too much lower than its new price. It's more like 80-90% of it's retail value. That's why I always spend that a litttle bit extra to get new gear - peace of mind + warantee + return policy are totally worth 10% to me.


I'm fairly nice to my equipments so I can make sure that they will go off my hand easily at least 70-80% of its value when eventually I'm going to upgrade. That way any new gear won't cost too much anymore - because my old gear is sold at a good price.


I don't refuse to buy used, only when there's a deal and I'm sure that I can resell it for almost the same price or even more.

[Skippy]

Today I bought a manual focus minolta lens from a local camera shop. When I got home and attached it to my camera and looked through the viewfinder, I saw it had two black dots. The lens was a refurb. I was surprised to see black dots/specks in the lens. I thought a refurb would be okay. Taking it back on Monday. [:(]

[Benjamin]

When I got home and attached it to my camera and looked through the
viewfinder, I saw it had two black dots. The lens was a refurb. I was
surprised to see black dots/specks in the lens.
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>





Seeing black dots in a lens through the viewfinder is unusual according to my limited experience. My 24-70L has a rather noticeable dust inside it but I don't realize anything at all in my viewfinder. It does not seem to show up in my images even at F11 or F16. However, I do see black dots in my viewfinder because my focusing screen inside the camera body has dust on it - that's 99% of the black dots I see through my viewfinder. They're rather easy to clean too.


You can have a simple check by unmount the lens and then look through the viewfinder under good lighting at a white wall. If the black dots are still there rather in focus while everything else are just white, it's the dust on the focusing screen not in the lens.

[Colin]

Yes, I get crap on my focusing screen that I can see easily. I'll never actually seen dots on a lens.

[Skippy]

When I got home and attached it to my camera and looked through the
viewfinder, I saw it had two black dots. The lens was a refurb. I was
surprised to see black dots/specks in the lens.






Seeing black dots in a lens through the viewfinder is unusual according to my limited experience. My 24-70L has a rather noticeable dust inside it but I don't realize anything at all in my viewfinder. It does not seem to show up in my images even at F11 or F16. However, I do see black dots in my viewfinder because my focusing screen inside the camera body has dust on it - that's 99% of the black dots I see through my viewfinder. They're rather easy to clean too.


You can have a simple check by unmount the lens and then look through the viewfinder under good lighting at a white wall. If the black dots are still there rather in focus while everything else are just white, it's the dust on the focusing screen not in the lens.






After reading this I attached one of my other lens and the black dots are in the same place. [:S] I have a 35mm film camera. How do I get the black dots off?

[Benjamin]

I have a 35mm film camera. How do I get the black dots off?
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>





Well, the easiest way is to unmount the lens, put the camera facing downwards and then use the BLOWER pointing to the focus screen to blow the dust off. Never try to use your month as liquid may be spread into the camera if you try hard. You can also use a sensor cleaning brush to clean the mirror as well as the focusing screen, but don't forget to blow the rest of dust off after you've done that.


You can also check by looking through the viewfinder WITHOUT a lens mounted at a white wall in decent lighting, see if any dust is still there. If it does, repeat the procedures above.


That's it.

[Cory]

The absolute #1 reason I do not buy used equipment: The lenses I want are rarely reduced enough in cost from the new ones that I'm willing to risk it. I'm not going to spend $430 to buy a used lens that I can buy new for $470 (most recent example). When there's a lens I want which runs $1500 ballpark the used one better be more then $200 less... are that is QUITE often not the case. So I buy new.

[Benjamin]

The absolute #1 reason I do not buy used equipment: The lenses I want are rarely reduced enough in cost from the new ones that I'm willing to risk it. I'm not going to spend $430 to buy a used lens that I can buy new for $470 (most recent example). When there's a lens I want which runs $1500 ballpark the used one better be more then $200 less... are that is QUITE often not the case. So I buy new.
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>





Absolutely. In Ontario we have 13% sale tax, and all current model used L lenses are almost all for sale at its retail price, which means that you only save 13% on tax - in this case I'll just go to the retailer and pay the tax and then bring my brand new lens w/warantee home.

[Stephen Probert]

I enjoy trying to get a steal on ebay, but you have to be careful and I am feeling good right now because I haven't been burned yet. Worst case was that I got a 24-70 that was promised with a US warranty card, but it didn't come with one. I guess it didn't matter too much since I didn't have the original receipt either.


Taking the risk gives a chance for a really good deal. A couple months ago I got a 5D markI, a 430 EXII and a 70-300 IS (all brand new) for $1600. I got a special discount by using Paypal (10% off) and sold the 70-300 for $450 which meant I got the 5D and the 430 EXII for $1000. Everything works great!


Just buying an item any old day on ebay doesn't save you a ton of money over buying new or buying used from Adorama, but if you watch for a month you can get a really good deal. Again, I haven't been burned yet.

[mkilgour]

As somebody just starting out in the SLR world I love used gear. I've gotten some pretty good deals from the used sections of Adorama &amp; B&amp;H. If you cruise them enough you can come up with some pretty good deals, especially for non-L lenses. I gave up trying to find a used 70-200 as they were usually only priced 40 or 50 bucks cheaper than new with rebates.

[LoneSierra]

Well, personally, I don't want to buy into someone else's problems. Granted, MOST people have good luck with used stuff, and MOST people are going to be honest enough. Another thing, people like me are just anal, and want untouched equipment. I like even ordering things online, because the place I usually order from (cameta.com by the way is an awesome place to go) sends a box out of storage, and nobody has been looking at it. haha I know that's a little anal but.....to each his own.

[Keith B]

What happens to all the lenses folks return because they aren't "sharp copies"? Do they throw them back in new stock? Sell them as opened box?Do they get sent back to factory? Do they get check and sold as new? Do they get refurbed and sold as?

[LoneSierra]

Keith


Not sure, but my first batch of equipment from Cameta Camera had a kit 50-250 that was blurry to the point that I believed it was defective, and they took it back no questions. Perhaps they put it back, but either way they didn't stick me with it! hah

[Colin]

I wouldn't know what any particular seller does, but based on my human experience, I would guess that they might check it out, and if nothing is obviously wrong (i.e, there's a good chance somebody else wouldn't notice the problem), they probably just rebox it and sell it to somebody else. Reality is, I suspect, that while everybody wants the 'good' stuff, most people wouldn't know what to look for. I suspect that's why most insist that everything is 'as new' for return (don't fill out the warranty card, all packing materials, etc.)


To be fair, many defects may in fact the user error, or simply product performance 'features' (like the 50mm f/1.2L unavoidable backfocus issues), and sending them back to Canon would be a real waste of time.

[Jarhead5811]

<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]Apparently plenty of people have absolutely no problem with used gear; otherwise the resale prices would drop. The high resale is what the market will bear.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] <o:p></o:p>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]My main two problems with used gear are: <o:p></o:p>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]1) Not much money to be saved due to the high resale.<o:p></o:p>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]2) I'm paranoid of dealing with individuals online, even or especially, on E-bay.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] <o:p></o:p>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]I&rsquo;d consider used in a heartbeat if I could see the item in person and the savings were fairly considerable, relative to the overall cost involved. <o:p></o:p>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]I buy from Adorama&rsquo;s refurbished list quite frequently and have considered their used gear but haven&rsquo;t taken that plunge yet.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] I&rsquo;d love to get one of <st1:city w:st="on"]<st1:place w:st="on"]Bryan</st1:place></st1:city>&rsquo;s used pieces but haven&rsquo;t been in the buying mood at the right time. <o:p></o:p>

[LoneSierra]

When I got home and attached it to my camera and looked through the
viewfinder, I saw it had two black dots. The lens was a refurb. I was
surprised to see black dots/specks in the lens.






Seeing black dots in a lens through the viewfinder is unusual according to my limited experience. My 24-70L has a rather noticeable dust inside it but I don't realize anything at all in my viewfinder. It does not seem to show up in my images even at F11 or F16. However, I do see black dots in my viewfinder because my focusing screen inside the camera body has dust on it - that's 99% of the black dots I see through my viewfinder. They're rather easy to clean too.


You can have a simple check by unmount the lens and then look through the viewfinder under good lighting at a white wall. If the black dots are still there rather in focus while everything else are just white, it's the dust on the focusing screen not in the lens.






After reading this I attached one of my other lens and the black dots are in the same place. /emoticons/emotion-7.gif I have a 35mm film camera. How do I get the black dots off?






I found a tiny black dot today, but I think it's just a piece of dirt. Also, something to try....take your lens off and look through the finder. Look towards a light, then pan away. There is a piece of glass or something, that has a texture to it. With the lens on, it can make it look like microscopic specs. At least, that's how it looks on mine.


Maybe that will help?

[Ehcalum]

I had this problem with my 40D after heavy dusty environ use. What happens is dust gets inside the mirror box and on the inside of the focus screen, this also happens with the automatic sensor cleaning.


Best way to fix: remove thefocus screen, use a blow gun and blow out themirror box andfocusscreen area. Wipe the screen itself with a microfibre cloth.

[LoneSierra]

<span style="font-size:9pt;color:black;font-family:Verdana;"]Apparently plenty of people have absolutely no problem with used gear; otherwise the resale prices would drop. The high resale is what the market will bear.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes;"]


<span style="font-size:9pt;color:black;font-family:Verdana;"]My main two problems with used gear are:


<span style="font-size:9pt;color:black;font-family:Verdana;"]1) Not much money to be saved due to the high resale.


<span style="font-size:9pt;color:black;font-family:Verdana;"]2) I'm paranoid of dealing with individuals online, even or especially, on E-bay.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes;"]


<span style="font-size:9pt;color:black;font-family:Verdana;"]I&rsquo;d consider used in a heartbeat if I could see the item in person and the savings were fairly considerable, relative to the overall cost involved.


<span style="font-size:9pt;color:black;font-family:Verdana;"]I buy from Adorama&rsquo;s refurbished list quite frequently and have considered their used gear but haven&rsquo;t taken that plunge yet.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes;"] I&rsquo;d love to get one of Bryan&rsquo;s used pieces but haven&rsquo;t been in the buying mood at the right time.












That's another good point. If I can buy a used lens for $850, and the new counterpart is $1000.....I'm just going to spend the extra buck fifty, and have something I KNOW has a warantee (thanks for that WHOLE YEAR Canon) and know has never been used. No worries.

[alexniedra]

<span>I&rsquo;d love to get one of Bryan&rsquo;s used pieces but haven&rsquo;t been in the buying mood at the right time.



Do you mean purchasing Bryan's used gear that he uses for testing and reviewing?

[Jarhead5811]

Yes, He places them up fro sale from time to time.

[alexniedra]

Could I ask where?

[Jarhead5811]

In the news ("http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-News/) area of the site.

[LoneSierra]

<span>I&rsquo;d love to get one of Bryan&rsquo;s used pieces but haven&rsquo;t been in the buying mood at the right time.



Do you mean purchasing Bryan's used gear that he uses for testing and reviewing?
<div style="CLEAR: both"]</div>






That was actually the other person saying that in the quote :)

[alexniedra]

That was actually the other person saying that in the quote :)


Yeah, oops [:)].

[HelenOster]

<p style="background: #efefef; margin: 0cm 0cm auto;" class="justify1"]
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]I can't speak for other retailers, but at Adorama, faulty items are returned to the manufacturer or distributor.
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]<o:p></o:p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]That doesn't mean that there aren't occasional problems; <span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]the manufacturers and distributors, who supply to Adorama, and of course, other retailers, do allow us to return equipment as new, because of over-stocks, exchanges etc. This can be a particular issue after the Christmas holiday when we all need to balance out our inventories.
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]<o:p></o:p>
<p style="background: #efefef; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]Even if we at Adorama are completely thorough when packaging up these items for return, there is no doubt that less scrupulous retailers could well be receiving returns, trusting the customer's explanation that they never opened the box - packaging them up for return to the manufacturer or distributor. These items then form part of the inventory for sending out to other retailers.<o:p></o:p>
<p style="background: #efefef; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]No retailer can inspect the contents of every packaged received into the warehouse. If the manufacturer doesn't check the equipment before sending it back out, from the customer's perspective it is the retailer who looks bad, even though it may well have not been their fault.
<p style="background: #efefef; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]
<p style="background: #efefef; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]At Adorama we do have liberal return policies and there is no doubt that on occasion this is taken advantage of - although this does not exempt us from more closely checking any and all returns, some retailers don't.
<p style="background: #efefef; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]<o:p></o:p>
<p style="background: #efefef; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]The problem is that we are all relying upon humans to carry out the required procedures at every point in the transaction, which can, and does, result in mistakes at any place along the line.<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]<o:p></o:p>
<p style="background: #efefef; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]<o:p></o:p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]<o:p></o:p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Sincerely
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o:p></o:p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Helen Oster
Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o:p></o:p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<st1:personname w:st="on"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com</st1:personname><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o:p></o:p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]www.adorama.com<o:p></o:p>

[Keith B]

Thanks Helen. That is the best a consumer could hope for.

[HelenOster]

There is a big difference between our refurbished and used departments. The used equipment we hold in stock has been purchased from members of the public. Refurbished items are delivered to us directly by the manufacturer who has carried out the refurbishment therefore they have all been restored to the exact manufacturer specifications.


In the past Adorama warranted Canon refurbished for 90 days; since 1st May, all Canon refurbished products from Adorama come with a 1 year return-to-Adorama warranty; 14 days from date of receipt for a full refund, and the balance for repair or replacement.


Refurbs may be ex-store demos, possibly used in field tests or sales displays, or are items that have been ordered in error and returned to the retailer (who can't then sell them as 'new' so they have to be sent back to the manufacturer for refurbishment). They can also have simply been pulled from the production line if something appears faulty, or which haven't passed the final inspection. Most of the time it is a very minor issue that needs correcting, nevertheless, once they are pulled from the normal flow of production, they get flagged as a refurbished model, so you may actually get a model straight from the factory that really has never been used!


A refurbished item will have been checked over by the manufacturer by hand, inspected very thoroughly, diagnosed, and calibrated by experienced technicians, and could therefore turn out to be more dependable than a new item - which will only have been checked by a process of systematic quality control protocol (ie by random sampling as they come off the conveyor belt).





Helen Oster


Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador





helen.oster@adoramacamera.com ("helen.oster@adoramacamera.com)


www.adorama.com ("http://www.adorama.com)

[Colin]

Given a choice, I'd rather have the refurbished...


However, sometimes you guys don't have it, and we have to buy new!