Sigma 85 f/1.4 Art

[Kayaker72]

First review (http://www.lenstip.com/491.1-Lens_review-Sigma_A_85_mm_f_1.4_DG_HSM_Introduction.html) has come in. It is big, it is heavy, it has an 86 mm front thread (like I want more filters) but this may be a thing of beauty....

from lenstip:

I imagine Zeiss must gnash their collective teeth quite strongly. They invented the Otus series which was supposed to prove that, for a quite astronomical price, you can produce an optically outstanding lens practically without any flaws. Meanwhile Sigma presented their 85 mm device which is not only able to win a duel with the Otus 1.4/85 in the most important categories but also breaks the resolution record of the Otus 1.4/28 on the sensor of the Canon EOS 5D Mark III. Mind you it is over three times cheaper. Nothing to add I suppose – a fully deserved the Lenstip Editor’s Choice award.

I love my 50A. I was very impressed with my 35A (since sold). I really wish this was somewhere between 100-135 mm. I probably would be unable to resist it. At 85 mm, it is awfully close to my 50 mm. But this is the most tempted I have been in awhile.....and my photography budget is in very good shape.

Tempting....

Of course, I will wait for other reviews, in particular Bryan's.....but the 24-70 II and 70-200 II are so good, primes really need to set themselves apart, IMO. This seems to do just that.

[Busted Knuckles]

Hang in there Brant!!! Fight the GAS, come on man you can do it!!!!

I agree that Primes have to be that special thing. I think it is at least aperture 50% and resolution might be 25% with the mystical bokeh the other 25%. 2 stops from yours and 3 from mine. That is a major expansion of the envelope.

No doubt Sigma has been putting pressure on the market.

[Kayaker72]

Haha!

Yeah, I'll be ok. I'll admit to checking out the page on B&H but never came close to clicking "buy" or "pre-order" in this case. My apparent GAS antidote is the pragmatic test.....for what I currently shoot, what shot will I be able to get with "x" that I cannot get with my current kit?

.....and...crickets.....:confused:

This is what has kept me on the sidelines for a lot of gear. M5 or G7X II...tempted, but really the M1 and iPhone (even though, I do not like the IQ whenever I take the time to really look at it) really do have me covered (still might get one this winter). Sigma 20A....if I did more astro, maybe. 100-400 II. Beautiful lens. Love all the stories about IQ and build quality. But not enough reach on one hand and size/weight compared to the 70-300 L (which has really impressed me) when I am traveling "light."

Maybe, but my guess is I will be on the sidelines. Would love seeing images if someone here does have a use for it.

[jamsus]

100-400 II is a masterpiece :)

I got more sharp images using it at 400mm cropped than with a 150-600 Tamron at 600mm

[Scott Stephen]

I hope Bryan gets a review of the 85 Art in time for Christmas. This lens is really tempting and the few reviews out so far seem promising. I personally look at Bryan's as one of the perhaps 2 "gold standard" reviews, though, so I am waiting to see. I think this lens is the one people have been waiting for since Sigma surprised everyone with the first 35mm Art lens. "When will they do an 85mm Art?" has been said a few million times I think.

[Sinh Nhut Nguyen]

What's going to happen to the Canon 85 f/1.2 L? The Sigma cost $600-700 less.

[DavidEccleston]

If it follows their response to the success of the Sigma Art 35mm, we'll see a new Canon in 6-12 months with improved optics, and autofocus, but the price difference will jump to $1000.

[Kayaker72]

The rumor is that Canon will be releasing a EF 85 f/1.4 L IS. I am sure there will be those that will hate losing the f/1.2 and then those that will love having IS. If it is optically similar to the EF 35 f/1.4 II, then it will be a real winner. Although I do agree with David, a real winner starting at ~$2,100.

I actually would love to see some more comparison examples of bokeh between the current 85 mm offerings against the Sigma. There is no doubt it is sharp (vs Canon (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=1085&Camera=979&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=397&CameraComp=979&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=1) vs Ziess (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=1085&Camera=453&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=957&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0)).

[Sinh Nhut Nguyen]

I don't know about you guys but to my eyes I can't differentiate between f/1.2 and f/1.4 on my 85 f/1.2. That being said I shoot that lens exclusively at f/1.2 and the results are spectacular (if I nail the focus) :)

Kayaker, 85 f/1.4 L IS, I like that idea, just hope that the AF is much faster than the 85 f/1.2 L II

[DavidEccleston]

Glad to see that both Brant and I were both wrong on the price of Canon's response! Between the two companies you now can choose a fantastic 85mm lens with or without IS.

I think the price difference is small enough that many people will choose to go for the Canon w/ IS, which is bad news for Sigma. Hopefully it doesn't discourage them from making more awesome and relatively affordable lenses.

[Sean Setters]

I think the price difference is small enough that many people will choose to go for the Canon w/ IS, which is bad news for Sigma. Hopefully, it doesn't discourage them from making more awesome and relatively affordable lenses.

Indeed, 4-stop IS + [an expected] more accurate AF system will more than justify the price difference for many. I'm generally a fan of Sigma's Art-series lenses (I still have 2 in my personal kit). But if I were shopping for an 85mm prime today, I'd pick up the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS USM in a heartbeat.

[Kayaker72]

Ha.....so if I was in the market for a 85 mm prime, I would definitely be interested in the EF 85 f/1.4 IS. And I am not appalled by the price point. But my original estimate of it being over $2k was contingent on optical quality being the same or better as the Sigma 85A and the recent Canon EF 35 II. I am not sure it is. At least looking at the MTF (which is theoretical), it is not.

Canon EF 85 f/1.4 IS

http://cweb.canon.jp/ef/lineup/standard/ef85-f14l/img/spec/mtf.png


Canon EF 85 f/1.2 II
http://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/lenses/sample/tele_ef85mm.jpg

http://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/lenses/sample/ef35_14l2u_mtf.gif

Canon EF 85 f/1.8
http://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/lenses/sample/ef_85_18mtf.gif



EF 70-200 f/2.8 II

http://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/lenses/sample/ef70-200lisiiu_wide_mtf.gif




I am not going to include Sigma's MTF as different manufacturers = different MTF, but it is somewhat similar if they are somehow comparable.

But, comparing Canon MTF to Canon MTF this is a good, sharp lens, but I will be pleasantly surprised if it hits the optical level of the EF 35 f/1.4 II or the Sigma 85A, especially wide open. But, still, with 4 stops IS, if I was to pick one, I might go with it.

EDIT...

BTW, I pulled the MTF chart from:

http://cweb.canon.jp/ef/lineup/standard/ef85-f14l/spec.html

[Joel Eade]

Are all those MTF charts at the same f-stop?

[Kayaker72]

Are all those MTF charts at the same f-stop?

Hi Joel,

The blue lines are f/8 and the black lines are wide open. So, of course, wide open will vary between the lenses. The thick lines are 10 line pairs/mm (indicator of contrast) and the thin lines are 30 lp/mm (indicator of resolution). Further up the chart, the better, the closer the solid to dashed line, typically the more uniform the bokeh.

A quick write up on it from Canon and luminous landscape:

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2013/reading_MTF_charts.shtml

https://luminous-landscape.com/mtf/

I would say that the new EF 85 f/1.4 IS is a bit better than the EF 85 f/1.8. So, the IQ you have at f/1.8 with older lens, you'll now have a bit better at f/1.4 with 4 stops IS with the new lens. And the 85 f/1.8 is plenty sharp (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=106&Camera=979&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=106&CameraComp=979&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5). So I expect the new lens to be great. But, it is just a little bit behind the EF 35 f/1.4 II:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=106&Camera=979&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=994&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

the Sigma 85A:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=106&Camera=979&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=1085&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

or the Zeiss Otus:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=106&Camera=453&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=957&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

At least that is my perception based on the MTFs.

As I thought about this, as a portrait lens, that is likely fine. Good bokeh/contrast is as important if not more so than straight up resolution. And looking at the MTF, 10 lp/mm is almost at 90% on the 85IS, so I expect good contrast. Resolution is down around 60% which is meh. The dashed and solid lines are reasonably close, so I expect fairly uniform bokeh. This should be a good portrait lens, but the MTFs are not indicating that it is a world beater in terms of resolution.

[Dave Throgmartin]

If you need a 85mm lens the Sigma Art looks awesome.

Dave

[Kayaker72]

BTW...I was playing with the Sigma 85A compared to the new lens yesterday. One thing that impressed me was how well (not perfect but ballpark) the Sigma MTF matched with what lensrentals observed:

85A Geometrical MTF

https://pull01-sigmaphoto.netdna-ssl.com/media/wysiwyg/85mm/geometricalMTF_85_14_dg_hsm.jpg

Sigma MTFs explained (v different from Canon)
https://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lens-resources/mtf-chart-guide


LensRentals measured MTF
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/media/2017/02/85mm-f1.4-DG-HSM-Art_MTF_Average-1.pngOlaf Optical Testing, 2017


So, comparing the two red lines (both 10 lp/mm wide open) and the two green lines (both 30 lp/mm wide open), some serious similarities. If anything, the lens tested better than the MTF would have indicated.

I checked out the 50A, and the same generally appeared to be true. Nice to see some MTFs validated.