When do you remove noise?

[Bill W]

My PP is done in CS3, starting w/Bridge. While in Bridge I follow the Basic Image procedures; i.e. starting left to right and while in these catagories, use the sliders top to bottom (if I feel it is necessary).


Ex. high ISO photo; I will use the luminance and color noise reduction sliders and then move to the Gray scale and use a specific color under the luminance category for further smoothing.


When in PS, I make the adjustments I feel are necessary and then use the Unsharpen filter and then Noise reduction as the last step before converting.


Thoughts on workflow?


Also, do any or you use plug-ins such as Noise Ninja and do you feel it's better than CS3 noise removal?


Thank you for any input.


Bill

[40Doodle]

Bill,


I do the noise reduction last too (for photos that need it). The filter that I use is made by Topaz (their "DeNoise" product). I also have their "Adjust" product/filter for Photoshop. They have 30 day fully functional trial-ware available to get an idea of what their products will do for you and tutorial videos on the site.


Topaz site ("http://www.topazlabs.com/denoise/)


Rick

[Dann Thombs]

For high noise removal, I usually create a three layer file in photoshop.


The bottom has a low noise pass, maybe around 2/10 with no sharpening etc.


The middle layer is a maxed out noise and chroma noise removal.


The top layer is gausian blur set to 50 pixels or so.


Then I set the middle layer mask to reveal all, and paint in (subtract in essense) the detail from the bottom layer as needed. Since noise hides in the detail better, it leaves the flat areas noise-free. Then for backgrounds, I apply a hide-all mask to the top layer and paint in large out of focus areas which is very smooth. Sometimes for the top layer, I'll paint a solid color if I can get away with it. See these photos taken at ISO1600 on a 40D


http://www.flickr.com/photos/goshzilla/3307301864/ ("http://www.flickr.com/photos/goshzilla/3307301864/)


http://www.flickr.com/photos/goshzilla/2828271796/ ("http://www.flickr.com/photos/goshzilla/2828271796/)

[Madison]

I remove noise as a first step. Everything you do afterwards in postprocessing (especially sharpening) will be influenced by the amount of noise in an image.I recommend the following, based on my workflow, and some common sense.





1. Presharpening (minor *minor* sharpening, and only if you shoot raw. Don't sharpen jpg because they have already been sharpened in camera: sharpen those for output when you are done, as a last step, to control side effects such as halos that sometimes pop up if you do it incorrectly).


2. Noise reduction. You can use photoshop or lightroom or dedicated software, I recommend Noiseware Pro. It's better than Adobe's noise algorhythms. But opinions differ.


3. Then: Global (and if necessary local) color correction (incl. white balance, exposure, toning etc). (local for example with Viveza).


4. Local postprocessing such as retouching blotches or working on skin etc. Where you edit the content of the image rather than the colors etc: moving pixels etc. Masking etc. That kind of stuff belongs in step four.


5. Sharpen for output. Depending on your output sharpening settings are very different. Use Lightroom, or Photoshop or dedicated software. I have gotten reasonably good results with Lightroom when I mask stuff myself, better results when we used Focalblade at the office I used to work with, but it wasnt very user friendly.








My two cents.

[Sinh Nhut Nguyen]

yeah noise reduction should be the last step, after you remove noise, use the brush or whatever tool your softwar has to bring back the detail on the subject.

[Madison]

Funny how opinions are so different. In art school, in 15+ years of working as a graphic designer, in Photo school and during an internship of one of my friends at a world renowned studio, noise reduction was always after presharpening and NEVER last hahaha. And here everybody seems to agree it should be used later on or even last in postprocessing. I disagree but maybe it's a US/Europe/Asia/Pro/Prosumer/Consumer thing. Could be entire groups of people are doing it differently. So cool to see all these ways of doing it [:)]

[Oren]

Or could be that someone got it wrong and now everybody just do it wrong as the first guy who started it.


Anyhow, I did not read the previous posts, but here is some point to think of:


Any current noise reduction algorithm of any kind involves some loss of sharpness, so it seems like a good idea to sharpen the image after noise reduction.

[Oren]

Or could be that someone got it wrong and now everybody just do it wrong as the first guy who started it.


Anyhow, I did not read the previous posts, but here is some point to think of:


Any current noise reduction algorithm of any kind involves some loss of sharpness, so it seems like a good idea to sharpen the image after noise reduction.

[Bill W]

Since posting this question I have found these links, the following is a primer link;


http://www.luminous-landscape.com/techniques/process.shtml


The 2nd paragraph in the primer says it all. But when he moves into PS, NR is an initial step.


A more detailed tutorial;


http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/workflow1.shtml


Thanks for the input


Bill


P.S. what's the trick to get your link to become a link? [:$]

[Oren]

P.S. what's the trick to get your link to become a link? /emoticons/emotion-10.gif
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>





Mark it with your mouse and then click on the "link" icon above.

[Sinh Nhut Nguyen]

I sharpen the entire image first.


Remove noise in Noise Ninja.


Then use the brush tool to bring back the detail on the subject. I find using this tool a lot easier and faster than using the magic wand in CS 2 toselectively sharpen part of my image. I really don't need my background to be sharp.


http://www.pscvn.org/members/308/5-18-2009_8-28-12_PM.jpg

[Madison]

Then you are, in fact, sharpening the noise, making it worse. (along with sharpening other details). You end up with a grainier image (albeit a bit sharper as well) and THEN you remove noise? This way you remove extra noise you created and you lose sharpness that you could have kept had you removed noise first, sharpened afterwards.





Just a well meant tip.

[Colin]

I just use DPP, so i don't have the ability to selectively sharpen or fiter, but that would be really cool. A reason to pay for some software.


I sharpen on the RAW tab to maximize image detail usually not past 2 or 3, but sometimes up to 5, but back off just before I get the single pixel crunch. I may sharpen in the RGB tab if I think it could use some sharpness pop. If the image has some noise I want to deal with, or I just want a little bit of general smoothing, I'll apply luma and chorma filtering in the third tab, as best addresses the issue, keeping an eye on the detail I just sharpened to see how much it softens it. If the softening is too much, I go back and forth either increasing the sharpening or decreasing the filtering, until I feel that I've got a good balance.


The way you guys talk, you make me want to pull my calibrated monitor out, buy Photoshop and/or other stuff, and take a class! OTOH, I'm lazy [:)]

[Madison]

Slightly off topic, about local adjustments (sharpening/noise removal)


Lightroom can do local sharpening via the adjustment brush (which is still slow and tedious if you ask me). NIK Software makes a sharpening plugin (as well as a noise removal one) that has VERY clever ways of doing local adjustments via handles you place in the image. It works very intuitive after you just read the manual for a few minutes. I tried their demo and was amazed by the software and how much better it handles sharpening and noise removal than Photoshop's own algorhythms (or those of Lightroom).