Canon 5DIV

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08-18-2016, 01:52 PM
Kayaker72

Canon 5DIV
Rumored to be announced next week, but images and specs are popping up all over the place.

This list is taken from CR:
- 30.4mp
- 7fps
- Dual Pixel AF
- ever possible to no post-processing of the adjustment dual pixel RAW file (bad translation)
  - There has been lots of debate what Dual Pixel RAW actually means, so we’re going to wait until we see an official explanation from a Canon document.
- 61 point AF (Likely 41 crosstype)
- 150,000-pixel RGB + IR sensor
- Anti-flicker
- ISO 100-102400 (extended sensitivity)
- 24/30fps @ 4K
- 60fps @ 1080
- 120fps @ 720
- 4:2:2
- 8bit 500mbps MJPEG
- Touchscreen LCD
- Dust and weathersealed
- Still image capture from 4K video
- Time-lapse movie
- GPS built-in
- Wi-Fi
- NFC
- SD / SDHC / SDXC and CompactFlash TypeII
- USB 3.0 terminal, HDMI terminal
- Size X 116.4Mm X 150.7Mm 75.9Mm
- Weight 890g (1.96lbs)
I am also expecting new sensor tech demonstrated in the 80D and 1DXII to show up giving similar high ISO performance as the 5DIII but a couple of stops improvement at low ISO. If that statement holds, it is a pretty impressive accomplishment considering the bump to 30.4 MP. Thus, it is a slight to significant improvement over the 5DIII in just about every way, which is a major complement considering how good a camera I consider the 5DIII.

I'll wait for the final specs and reviews to come in. My guess is that I'll upgrade to the 5DIV at some point, but I am not in a rush. What could make me order quicker is if real world users start making claims about faster more accurate AF. The 5DIII is good, but I have definitely noticed that several 5DsR users have mentioned faster/better AF.
08-18-2016, 03:28 PM
HDNitehawk

IMO it has to have improved high ISO noise over the 5D III to even open a discussion of buying one. Otherwise I see no worthy benefit over the 5Ds R for my purposes. The frame rate isn't fast enough to make it interesting either.

The 5Ds R had a new mirror vibration control system, I am sure this is part of the improvement with the AF system. I can tell you the AF system of the 5Ds R has been on par with my 1D IV and is very accurate. But whether those improvements translate from the slow fps 5Ds R to the 5D IV remain to be seen.

As for focus speed the 5Ds R is not as fast as the 1D series, I doubt the 5D IV will be any faster. I think that is a power and battery issue.
08-18-2016, 06:19 PM
Kayaker72

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDNitehawk

IMO it has to have improved high ISO noise over the 5D III to even open a discussion of buying one. Otherwise I see no worthy benefit over the 5Ds R for my purposes.

While improvements in high ISO would be great, I am just not seeing it from the 80D vs 70D and the 1DXII vs the 1DX. Just working off DXO, but the crop sensor DR is essentially identical above ISO 800 and the FF sensor DR is essentially identical above ISO 3200. Below those values, there seems to be benefit of canon's new sensor technology. Likely the "blacker blacks" by decreasing the noise floor due to on chip A/D converters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDNitehawk

As for focus speed the 5Ds R is not as fast as the 1D series, I doubt the 5D IV will be any faster. I think that is a power and battery issue.

That has always been my assumption. But, for example Peety has said the 5DsR AF is far superior to the 5DIII. All I am saying is that I am reading and paying attention. If the 5DIV is generating similar buzz, that would be a big selling point to me. It may not be 1D level, but that is the type of improvement that I would absolutely gain something from.

In terms of performance, the 5DsR seems very similar to the 5DIII (again, just looking over the "measurements" in DXOMark). A bit better low ISO DR. My take has always been the 5DsR is about resolution. I could see making this upgrade some day. If I did, I'd likely keep the 5DIII for when I am going to be taking a ton of pics, and use the 5DsR a bit more sparingly when the resolution justifies the file size, etc.

Not perfect logic, but it is also hard to justify any move off a camera I am happy with.
08-18-2016, 07:38 PM
peety3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayaker72

That has always been my assumption. But, for example Peety has said the 5DsR AF is far superior to the 5DIII. All I am saying is that I am reading and paying attention. If the 5DIV is generating similar buzz, that would be a big selling point to me. It may not be 1D level, but that is the type of improvement that I would absolutely gain something from.

I "blame" that on CPU support. 5D3 is single Digic. 5DsR is dual Digic. 1Dx is two Digics solely for image processing, and a third (older model) Digic for exposure and AF. All three (AFAIK) share the exact same AF sensor.
08-19-2016, 02:14 PM
Busted Knuckles

Not going to be in a hurry.

I rented the R and didn't notice focus speed, but them again landscapes don't move all that much, and I didn't shoot birds with the R.

I am a believe that much of the 1 vs 5 speed is voltage. I recall the 1 is 14 v. Someone can/will correct me, and voltage increase into the same dc motor makes it more powerful and can move the mass more quickly.
08-19-2016, 05:07 PM
HDNitehawk

I have always heard a similar explanation.
The 5Ds R battery is 7.2v / 1865 mAh vs the 1Dx II at 10.8v / 2700 mAh.
I doubt the 5D IV will be any better than the previous 5D's or 7D II when it comes to speed, unless it arrives with a new type of battery.

I have timed the 7D II and 5D II against the 1D IV and both were slower when using a big white lens.
On normal lenses I doubt you would ever notice.
08-19-2016, 06:29 PM
DavidEccleston

They can solve this without a new battery type, I think, via the battery grip.

Make it so that when you're using the grip you can choose between two modes: Extended Life, or More Power. Extended Life, is how it works now. I'm not sure if both batteries are used in parallel, sipping power from each, or with the second used as a backup when the first one dies. The More Power mode would use both simultaneously, but rather than sipping, it would use the full power to drive faster AF.

Maybe the camera would decide on the mode on the fly, sipping from both, and then when doing AF it gulps from both. Perhaps the grip already does this, but Canon doesn't advertise it.
08-19-2016, 06:36 PM
Kayaker72

If all our theories and the current rumor (LP-E6N battery) hold, then the AF advantages of the 5DIV over the 5DIII will mostly be the f/8 point sensitivity, -3 EV (-4 in Liveview), etc. In terms of actual focus speed, perhaps the Digic 6+ will be better, but we'll have to see how it compared to the 5DsR's dual Digic 6 processors. I would also hope for larger spread of the AF points. I am fine with the 61, but wouldn't mind more spread.

BTW...as the rumored specs continue to be leaked, if they hold, I am very impressed. Pretty much across the board improvements. Nothing, except maybe the dual pixel post processing, really jumps out, but seems that everything is a bit better on an already very good product. Not talking myself into something here, but I do enjoy the gear aspect to photography and, as I said, I do expect to upgrade to something in another year or two.
08-19-2016, 07:21 PM
peety3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busted Knuckles

I rented the R and didn't notice focus speed, but them again landscapes don't move all that much, and I didn't shoot birds with the R.

I shot a rugby tournament with a 5DsR on a 100-400II and never felt it was slow whatsoever. If (and this is the big if) I kept the focus point on a human, the shots were (I think) 100% accurate every time.
08-19-2016, 07:23 PM
peety3

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidEccleston

Make it so that when you're using the grip you can choose between two modes: Extended Life, or More Power. Extended Life, is how it works now. I'm not sure if both batteries are used in parallel, sipping power from each, or with the second used as a backup when the first one dies. The More Power mode would use both simultaneously, but rather than sipping, it would use the full power to drive faster AF.

Maybe the camera would decide on the mode on the fly, sipping from both, and then when doing AF it gulps from both. Perhaps the grip already does this, but Canon doesn't advertise it.

If the grip has two batteries in it, the menus show how many shots were taken on each, so it definitely seems it's some sort of "use one battery at a time". The counts are rarely 1:1, so it has some sort of switching logic that perhaps waits for all card writes to finish before it switches, or something like that.