Right on Mark, +100!!!
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Right on Mark, +100!!!
No one on this forum can match you for passion and caring Denise, this is what your client sees.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt0725
Keep it simple, keep it personal, your client and you will have a blast, with you behind the lens.
Right on Steve, +100!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve U
Hope you don't mind my pladgerism :rolleyes:
Um no ...I don't have a clue what a TLR is! I'm not saying I'm too young to remember (although I'd like to use that excuse) but I really didn't know anything about cameras or photography at all until I picked up my rebel 2 years ago. Other than that, I only owned a Kodak that shot the picture out the front and a p&s that I have now. I live a very sheltered life!Quote:
Originally Posted by clemmb
I don't remember sending my camera in because of a problem. I only sent my camera in when I had Canon calibrate my lenses to it when I was having a couple lenses I used to own looked at, the camera went along for the ride.
EDIT: Oops, hit "return" before I was done! I do think I need more cards though because I know I have a tendency to get trigger happy. But I did nix the idea of a better lens, I just hope my Siggys don't let me down!
Have you used reflectors much for weddings? I know my daughter would be happier if I didn't buy them probably but I wonder how much help they will provide.
Thanks Steve (and Mark)! I just want this day to turn out perfect for them (and me)! I can't mess this up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve U
That statement is why you will do well. You want them to walk away with something special, and you will work hard to make that happen. It is kind of a midwestern trait where you want to be helpful and maybe even get a in a little over your head, which just makes you work harder to make sure you do not leave anyone disipointed. I can not see you not working hard to make your client happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt0725
I was late to seeing this thread, so I thought I would stay out of the discussion because you needed the good advise of Wedding profesionals, and I did not want to muddy the waters. But I just could not hold back throwing in my support also. You have a lot people who think you can do this... you just need to believe in yourself.
Pat
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by clemmb
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by clemmb
Here is what My TLR(Twin Lens Reflex) looks likeQuote:
Originally Posted by ddt0725
Attachment 1307
I think that is what I am remembering, when you sent it in for calibration. I guess you don't still have your Rebel?
When I started with a Rebel I was using a Sigma 24-70 f2.8. I later swapped it for the Tamron 17-50. Your Siggys I am sure will be fine.
I have never used reflectors at weddings. I rarely use them during any shoot. In south Texas the sun is so bright it usually makes people squint more.
The birde-to-be just sent me a quick email. Her fiance and future mother-in-law are ok with having me as the photographer! They do need to stick to a budget of $400 and want package options! I haven't put together any package options on my website (haven't had a need) so I will have to look into what other photographers offer for packages in this price range. Suggestions always welcomed ...hint ...hint!:) Only other thing she mentioned is they primarily want the ceremony photographed highlighting the key moments and that we will discuss further when we meet.
$400 which will include your $65 an hour fee? I know you will get good advice here on picking a printing and pricing structure. It sounds like she will not be getting many prints, and perhaps the disk.
Back to one of the comments I gave you early on, you might end up making minimum wage. But your reward will be you get to do your first wedding. If you do this bride a good job, give her some beautiful pictures and the files that if she wants to print off high quality prints ten years from now when she can afford it, you both win. One of two things can happen here, you get a little wedding business going or you find out this isn't your cup of tea. Either way you win. A few dollars one way or the other won't matter in the long run. :)
Since I am a part time photographer my prices are low. My price structure is different than any other I have seen. When I started years ago I put together packages that had print and album options. Every bride without fail wanted to adjust the packages and I would have to re-price them. Since I work full time as an engineer and part time as photographer this was too much so my package prices are for the services and a proof CD. They can build up from there. Add prints, albums, books, etc... I think the most a bride has spent with me has been around $4,000 total. My wedding only package is $475. I have no time limit on reprints. Many brides come back for other products pretty quick. Some come back a year later when they have more money. It works well for those on a very tight budget. Make sure you obtain a non-refundable deposit. For my wedding only package I charge $175 deposit. The day of the wedding they owe the remaining $300. You need to do this so if for some reason the wedding is off after you rent a camera you are not out $$s. I have only had this happen twice. As part of the contract the deposit guaranties them that I am holding their date for them. If you are giving them a DVD of full files I would not include any prints for this price but let them come back to you at any time for professional prints at a reasonable price.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt0725
To expand on this idea a little: Get the brides permision (in the contract) to use her photos for advertising for future business. Then you can use these photos on your web site to kick of that side of your business. If they balk, then remind them that your not making money off them, and this is one way to off set your reduced wage. To have actual pictures on your web site is worth a lot more than a bunch of verbage (the old Cliché, "a picture is worth a thousand words").Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNitehawk
If you are not doing any pre-ceremony shots, group shots afterwards or the reception I wouldn't rent any gear. I would simply charge them $400 as your fee and offer the disk of processed images and/or just a few prints. At that price you don't have any room for more expenses IMHO. You have to remember too that you're gonna spend quite alot of post processing time. They will not be able to get anywhere near beating that price.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt0725
I completely agree with the above. If you can borrow something then go for it but don't put any money into this venture (that means no reflectors!). Also, a wedding is not a place to try out new gear/new techniques. Only do what you are proficient with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Eade
I think I got paid like $250 for my 1st wedding so $400 isn't too bad :-) Don't worry about packages. At $400 there's really no room. Give them a disc of JEPGS (processed of course) and let them know that they can have professionaly made prints off of your website. My general rule of thumb is:
1 hour behind the camera = 2 hours behind the computer. HDNitehawk is right, if you look closely you'll find out that you are making minimum wage :-( Oh well, next time you can charge $1k :-)
Yes, that would include my $65/hr. fee which $10/hr goes to my assistant.
I did get her permission (verbally) to use the photos for advertising, etc. I will have it written in the contract also.
Nope, there won't be any pre-ceremony photos!
Even though I will be spending a great deal of time going through and editing the photos, it's not like I'm doing anything else. So, I guess that part doesn't bother me so much.
I'm starting to think this could not be a better gig for a first time out their by myself. Even with only a few hours of shooting, I won't walk away with much $ wise but from this thread and doing it, I will walk away with plenty of knowledge and experience that I didn't walk into it with. If it gets me a few more gigs, then that is the icing on the cake. Or, if after it is all said and done, I find out it is not for me, then I keep it just as a hobby that I am passionate about.
So, here is where I'm at ...rental is definiitely out and I go with what I will have available.
Here is what I have for one package ...
$125.00 for a DVD of all edited photos (unwatermarked)
$195.00 for 3 hours of shooting @ $65/hr.
$320.00
$ 56.45 + shipping on my website gets (1) framed 10x13 & (2) 8x10's (small watermark in corner)
$376.45
Contract Price: $400
I would still have a full gallery of the photos on my website for them or family and friends to purchase at a later date.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Am I on the right track with this?
Denise
I think it sounds great Denise. The bride gets a few prints and saves money, she can always get more later. You get this experience. The bride probably doesn’t want pre-ceremony photos or anything like that because she couldn’t afford it. You might offer to do it for free for the experience if you wanted, or not.
Add the 3 hours @ $10/hr for your assistant and you get $406.45Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt0725
No, the $10/hr. isn't an additional charge to them. It comes out of the $65/hr. they are paying me . I told her I would give her that if she would help me. She's pretty introverted, so I thought it would help her too. A mom's mind works in mysterious ways! ;)
I am hoping I will make some extra sales afterwards from family and friends of theirs from what I post in the gallery. Fingers crossed!Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw
One thing that I was thinking that hasn't been mentioned, if I am using both flashes on camera I will need at least one flip flash bracket to go from landscape to portrait & keep the flash on top?
Can anyone recommend a good inexpensive flip flash bracket for a 7d (without grip) that can be used easily handheld?
I have an L bracket on my camera but if I use my camera on a tripod in portrait orientation, I won't be able to use on-camera flash! I may have to take all shots in landscape.
If your daughter is going to operate a camera on tripod, grudgingly, she probably will not be willing to flip it to portrait so you will not be needing a flash bracket.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt0725
Flipping a flash on a bracket while on a tripod is why I like a http://www.newtoncamerabrackets.com/ but these are expensive but this one works in a similar way but much less expensive, http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...h_Bracket.html. A friend of mine has this one and he likes it.
On another note you said something about some shots she was not interested in or someone said something about shooting other people that are not on the list of shots. Digital is free and you cannot sell a shot you did not take so take shots of her guest. They may see them and want to buy copies too:cool:
Thanks, Mark! Yes, I am hoping my daughter can catch a great deal of those shots of the people not on the "high priority" list while I do my best to capture everyone that is at the top of the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by clemmb
Hi Denise!
I haven't been on here in a while, but just looked today and wanted to say that I agree with some of the others. Your photography is much better than many wedding photographers out there. Here's how I have prepared to shoot weddings and would suggest the same for you:
APPRENTICE with a GOOD-QUALITY, full-time (or at least full-time during wedding season) photographer in your area. Do maybe three weddings as their assistant. Preferably for a little pay, but even just to be AT a wedding and learn the flow. That's the hardest part. You know the gear, you know the editing. The only thing is: If you aren't in the right spot at JUST the right time, you won't get the shot.
After you get maybe three second-shooter weddings under your belt, THEN I'd definitely try to get a wedding every now and then and just go from there. I think you'll do much better than you think! Also, yeah rent a 5DMkII or a MarkIII preferably, as it's a better camera and it's more similar to your 7D. Hell after a few maybe you can afford to upgrade to the MarkIII :)
So you'll only be charging $65 and hour, of which $10 of it goes to an assistant? Hmm.. I was thinking 90-100 per hour. $400 is very very reasonable, in fact perhaps too reasonable. I'm actually shooting a wedding TODAY for $750, and I only gave them that discount because they referred a client to me that I made some good money from, so I agreed to a lower-price as a thank you. I have to spend $100 to rent a car to drive the 45 min south to shoot it for the day, plus $150 to rent a 5DMk3, of which I already own (just need it as a backup camera!) I'll leave in a few hours to shoot it. I'm only making $500 but it's ALL profit. Granted I've shot a few weddings before, I'm still not a "wedding photographer" yet... hmm... are YOU comfortable with the $400 price? I think that's the question!
- Jordan
www.freshphotoblog.com
Thanks for the advice, Jordan and good luck on your wedding today!! Hopefully, after I have done more than zero of these, I will be able to walk away with a profit that I am proud of! In the meantime, this is the only offer I have to gain any experience at the moment. It is 3-5 minutes from my house, it's small and I am not renting any equipment. I will be putting myself through a great deal of stress I know but I will walk away with some experience in wedding photography, contracts and pricing, post-processing, spending time on an assignment with my daughter and allowing a couple to have some lasting memories from their big day that they obviously would not have been able to do otherwise. IMO, all of this priceless!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan
So, yeah I am ok with it! Would I like to be making more $ from it, sure! But it is what it is and since I am not doing anything else, the most I am giving up is chilling on here with you guys (sigh :() on the evening of September 29th and I will be editing their photos instead of my own afterwards of which I can use for my own benefit in the future.
As much as I could use more of a financial benefit from doing this, sometimes you just have to look at the non-monetary value of something.
Errr ...I could kick myself! I didn't realize that the latest 3-day live seminar on Creative Live was "Wedding Photography with Joe Buissink"! I just caught part of the last episode that was on contracts. It would have been so beneficial to see it from the beginning! Thursday he discussed his unique approach to client pitch meetings, lighting techniques and the benefits of compact camera gear! Perfect for me to have seen! Yesterday he went on-location at a local church where he held a live shoot.
Did anyone catch any of the seminar? I'm not going to purchase it for $99 but it sure would have been great to see it for free!! Today, I did learn a couple things about contracts that I didn't know before but it was hard to remember all of the paragraph wording that he recommended should be included in a contract.
They are doing another re-watch now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt0725
OMG! And I went to bed earlier than usual! I just tuned in now and it is at the last 2 minutes of the final episode that I already saw!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayson
On again Denise.
I'm on it!! Thanks, Jayson! I don't know how far it is into it but I didn't see this part yet!
It's pretty much right at the beginning of what he covers if anyone else wants to tune in! I can't wait until he goes on the live shoot!
Six hours later I am still watching this seminar! Talk about being packed with information!! WOW!
The main thing I am getting from this is ...WHAT the heck did I get myself into!!
BTW - This guy makes over $7k a wedding and shoots in "P" mode a large part of the time! :)
Must be a professional if he uses P mode:)Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt0725
I never use P mode. I use Av for available light. M for the rest.
Just practice and find what works best for you:cool:
The Journey of a Lifetime Begins With a Single Step.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt0725
That's exactly what I thought :).Quote:
Originally Posted by clemmb
He did sort of sell me with the "P" mode. I hav never used it before but if it's good enough for him and the weddings he did for JLo, Leann Rimes & Steven Spielberg ...it might be good enough for me! He uses "P" mode when he is using AE lock button and then has to turn and focus on something else in less than a second for example.
Another point, in the seminar he reads a paragraph (really fast) that Steven Spielberg's attorney had him put in his contracts that really makes sense. If a person buys the video they get a copy of the contract that his attorney wrote. I wish I still knew how to take shorthand because it would have been nice to get it down. It pretty much states that the client needs to keep in mind that photography is an art, the photographers vision of that individuals wedding and that the photographs they receive may not look exactly like what they envisioned they would look like and they will not match exactly to other photos on the photographers website. Of course it was worded so much better than what I am putting here but when he read it and explained why it was so important, it really sounded good! He also explained the difference between using different wording in contracts. Such as, using the word retainer and not deposit. He gave many good examples of different scenerios of issues that could come up.
One thing I was thinking I may include in my contract is that the client is aware that this is my first wedding assignment and that with my being the sole photographer, that although I will do everything to catch the most important moments, there is a chance that some moments will be missed. I have to think about the wording of it but that way if they end up not being happy with the photos in the end, they cannot come back and say they did not know I was inexperienced. Thoughts?
Goes to show you the focus is not on equipment so much as your skills, imagination and vision to make the most of the situation in front of you. Also your creativity in post processing will be a huge asset. That is why he can get $7K.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt0725
The 7K was just for him and his time at the wedding. It didn't count prints or albums, that's done after the fact. I was interested in the contracts, but couldn't stay up. I was interested to hear about his version of Copyright and wonder if it applies the same here as it does in California.
I apologize for beating a dead horse with what has turned into a VERY lengthy thread here but I thank you guys for putting up with me! Even my daughter said she doesn't want to talk to me if I am going to talk weddings ...LOL! And it's still a month and a half from the big day!!
First off, I haven't heard from the B-T-B since I sent her three days ago few questions to gain more insight of the wedding and sent her a couple options showing what could be available to her that are within her budget.
Presuming that she has been too busy to respond, I do have a few main concerns now that I have watched the day-long seminar.
#1 - Is the f/2.8 of my Siggy zooms really going to be enough?? Bumping the ISO to like 3000, 4000 on a 7d doesn't sound very appealing to me since I usually toss most of the photos I take if they are higher than 1000! Should I go with my Canon primes for the wedding and use the 50mm 1.8 II and 135L 2.0 and lose IS which may also cause more leg work and possibly cropping? Mr. B stated that you really shouldn't shoot people with wider than 50mm anyway.
#2 - This is sort of tied to #1 above. How close is ok to get to the ceremony without being too intrusive and where is best for me to be. Obviously, I can't cover everything! So, facing the back of the room and getting shots of the bridesmaids etc. & her coming down to the aisle, getting the back of her and his expression when he sees her, being close enough when the father hands her over to the groom ..."I Dream of Jeannie" & "Bewitched" comes to mind! The most I may have my daughter covering from the sidelines is stills of sitting guests and the wedding party during the ceremony. I don't think I have the skills that Mr. B has of slinging two cameras on me and switching back and forth as needed! Plus, he actually walks down on the side of the aisle with his assistant and uses her white shirt to continuously bounce flash off of! :eek:
He went over that so quickly that I didn't really get much out of that part of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayson
I didn't watch the video / show Denise, but was he talking 50mm on a FF body or a Crop Body?Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt0725