6D Announced (sort of)

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Originally Posted by trav.cunningham

Here are my thoughts:
1. Neither the 6D nor the D600 is impressive enough to make someone switch camps IMHO.
2. I think the the 7D mII will be focused on speed like the current model is. I'm guessing dual Digic 5+, better AF with more cross type points, and 10 FPS. Also, Better high speed video. I would be suprised if they increase video FPS honestly, but it would be nice. I also think it could be more expensive than the 6D. I would be seriously suprised if it did, the reason FF costs so much more is because the sensor costs a lot more to produce. The 7D II will almost cerntainly cost less than the 6D. I think the 7D and the 6D are going after different photographers.
3. I also think we could see the end of the xxD series and have a high level rebel take it's place and the EOS-M take the place of the low level rebels, but we will see. The Rebel type line won't be discontinued because they need a cheap lineup for people who don't want or need anything better (right now that is :)). The EOS-M is not a replacement for the Rebel line but a new niche for Canon, people who want something more like a PS but with great IQ.

Lastly, I think that the photographer is evolving. Cameras in phones are killing point-n-shoots, mirrorless will be purchased instead of entry level DSLRs, and that leaves only the series photographers to by the "expensive" cameras. There will be room left for a fully spec'ed rebel (like the T4i), an entry level FF (like the 6D), and entry level speed demon (like the 7D), a full featured FF (like the 5D mIII), and the ultimate Pro focused on speed (like the IDX). There is a niche for everything and right now they are filling in segments for photographers and not shifting up or down segments.

I may be totally off, but there are my predictions. Don't flame me too bad :) OK, I will just broil you....;)

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John.

The 6D was starting to make sense to me. I mean that -3 EV focusing might mean it's ridiculously good and doesn't need any stat busting numbers.

But then I read something about the sync speed of both this and the D600 being crippled massively. Is this to put off "professional" studio toggers from getting a cheaper full frame camera? Or a imitation technically of something else they've done to the camera?

given all the negative feedback (a lot of it seems deservedly given) I'm getting really excited about seeing the review on this site.
gosh, what an unimpressive camera.

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Originally Posted by ham

But then I read something about the sync speed of both this and the D600 being crippled massively. Is this to put off "professional" studio toggers from getting a cheaper full frame camera? Or a imitation technically of something else they've done to the camera?

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'Massively crippled' is hyperbole. The D600 X-sync is 1/200 s, same as the 5DII. The 6D is 1/180 s, which is a whopping 1/6 stop slower than the 5DII (although you might need to set 1/2-stop increments to get that - else, it might use 1/160 which is 1/3-stop slower, not sure how it'll behave).

It's slower for the 6D because the shutter is slower (only 4.5 fps) and cheaper (only 100K durability).

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Originally Posted by neuroanatomist

There was a recent patent for an updated 28-135mm, I wonder if that was intended as the kit lens (the current 28-135 is a little long in the tooth), but they couldn't get it ready in time, whereas there's a well-established production line for the 24-105L. Plus, it serves as a 'gateway' L-series lens.

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I see it as a form of marketing - they may well be planning a 28-135 kit. Here's how Mercedes-Benz introduces a car:

1) New E-class hits the market, released at first with premium engines: e.g. the E500 with five-litre V8. It picks up the early adopters excited by shiny-and-new, and establishes the car as aspirational for those with smaller budgets. A proportion of buyers may have opted for a smaller engine, but go for what's available.

2) Twelve months later, release the E350, with a V6. The engine, standard trim and features are not quite as good, but it picks up a different sector of buyers, including those excited by now being able to afford what, previously, they could only aspire to owning. Those who would have bought this in the first place seek solace in the fact that they've had a year's enjoyment out of it.

Now substitute '6D with 24-105L kit' for the E500, and '6D with 28-135 kit' for the E350. Give it twelve months, and they might just release it. This also gives them time to ramp up production of the 28-135, if there's an issue there.

@AndrewIC, I was speculating before I had seen that the kits were released with the 24x105mm L that they would be released with the 28x135mm. Now that we have seen some of the response to the D6 and that everyone is comparing it to D600 I can understand Canon's move. Paired with the 24x105mm the D6 is going to give you better IQ than the D600 with its kit lens. Had Canon paired it with the 28x135mm the edge the camera sold as a kit would have disappeared. It appears it was a wise move for Canon marketing.

Andrew might have something except the idea that the 5dIII is the 500 and the 6d is the 350.

I agree w/ John that the camera isn't bad, just oddly positioned in a product line strategy - AND there is no response for the d800. I am not sure why Canon is giving away that segment - perhaps it is small. I am still happy w/ the increment of $650 to jump from a 6d purchase to the 5dIII - I bet the price of the 5dIII settles at 2,750.

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Originally Posted by ham

I'm a 60D owner, and I see no reason at all to upgrade to the 6D. If I needed/wanted to upgrade now, I'd go to Nikon.

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Why do you say that? The main reason to upgrade to the 6D is not for resolution (if it was 18mp it would give much better IQ) but for the larger sensor. The D600 is more similar than different, if you were going to upgrade to the D600 the 6D is a very good candidate.

John.

I think there is a very curious product line strategy by Nikon & Canon.
7d vs D7000 (APC w/ closest FPS) Canon clear winnter
D600 vs 6d (FF w/ 2k ish price tag) Nikon appears to be better
D700 vs. 5DI ??? Who cares now
???? vs 5DII Who cares now
D800 vs 5dIII (I think aimed at slightly different audiences?) - Spliting an audience vs. combining?

Both the D800 and 5dIII are routinely available for 3k or a bit less on Flea bay - The D600 and 6d don't seem to have enough seperation from their "bigger brothers" price wise. 1st, I would have liked to see Canon position the 5DIII a bit lower price wise and "clean up" the $1,800 - $2,500 and then a "4d" something that would be a clear winner over the d800 in the $3,500-4,500 market vs. splitting these audiences. I was one of the 500 or so that picked up the 5dIII for $2,750 Adorama..... Would you pay $650 for the extra features over the 6d - maybe it is a measure of how enthusiastic is the entusiast? vs. "the pro".

I dont' think the 6d or the d600 is really a "pro" level camera? compared to the reaonably close by D800 and 5dIII.

Another product positioning question is "Would a pro save $650 and have a 6d backup or get a 2nd 5dIII?"

Let me say I am very happy w/ the price/value that I got w/ the 5dIII - I would have gone further i.e. another $1,000 or so if there was something there that was more "landscaper" oriented. Just like it isn't really about the number of pixels, neither do I think is it about FPS.

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Originally Posted by FastGass

Why do you say that? The main reason to upgrade to the 6D is not for resolution (if it was 18mp it would give much better IQ) but for the larger sensor. The D600 is more similar than different, if you were going to upgrade to the D600 the 6D is a very good candidate.

John.

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I've changed positions and now consider myself very likely to upgrade to the 6D once my tax return is back next year. I think it really does present a good value. the FF sensor is a huge step up, the high ISO is very helpful, and although the focusing system as a whole may not excite a lot of people -3 EV center point should be very valuable to me. Hopefully the price will drop a bit by that time next year too!

Dave

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Originally Posted by Dave Throgmartin

... the high ISO is very helpful...

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I know the spec's show the ISO range the same as the 5D III, but I think I am going to reserve judgment on this until I see some real results... I guess I am in "trust but verify" mode on this one. I would not think it would be wise for Canon to put out a spec for an ISO range that produced garbage at the high end (especially when they have proven capability with the 5D III and 1D X), but I think I would rather make them prove it rather than trust them. Unless I missed something, which is totally possible, I have not seen any results of their new sensor.

If the results are not as good as the 5D III, then I may opt to spend the extra $600 for the 5D III (based on the recent low cost offered on e-bay by Adorama).

I'm also in the trust but verify mode, but I really can't see Canon doing a whole lot of crippling on a single digit body. It would erase any level of trust their customer base had in them. Their next cameras may not see nearly as many pre-orders, until the pre-release image quality review start showing up.

I'd also assume the 6D will see discounts as quickly as the 5Dmk3, so the price difference will be higher than it seems. The price wars may even start sooner, as each store will want a piece of what has to be a larger market than the pro market.

Replying to Mark in another thread also reminded me of another reason many will look for the 6D. Size and weight. Or the lack there of.

I'm still waiting Ham....:confused:

Thanks,
John.