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5D, Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 L IS, ISO 100, 1/160, f6.3, 58mm, 580EXII in manual.
Flash used as fill light measured with Sekonic L-358 FLASH METER.
Taken at 12:20PM in bright sun light, P.S.Elements......what do you think? C&C more than welcome.
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I think the composition is a mess to be honest and the postprocessing to black&white with a touch or color is very (and I mean very very) dated and it will look even more dated a few years down the line. It cheapens the image if you ask me. It also draws my attention to the bouquet, where it should be drawn to the woman. It's a postprocessing 'trick' that doesn't add anything to the feel, emotion or content of the image.
ps: this, in no way, is meant in an offensive way.
I like the composition. Great use of fill flash, the exposure looks spot on. You can't tell that there's a harsh-noon sun. Also, the black & white really works for me...especially with the background. I actually like the black & white with a splash of color look as long as it's done in moderation. I would definitely provide both the color versions and plain black & white to the client so that they can decide what they like best.
For what it's worth, my wife (not a photographer) loved it :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madison
Madison,
If you did not want to be "offensive" then think how you should have worded your comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
English is not my native language so I have trouble sometimes.
I do not think words like 'mess' or 'dated' or 'cheapens the image' are that offensive to be honest. They may not be nice to hear but it is an honest opinion of somebody. A matter of taste, if you will. I stand by my words and have no other ways of expressing this critique. Sorry. If you submit images in this forum you can expect the best, and the worst. I have been very positive about some work, and sometimes, like now, I have to be honest and say the negative as well.
I will leave it at this.
The words seemed a little hash but I posted it for the feedback. I am a big guy and can take it. I would like to hear more comments.
Bob, what do you think?
Mark
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; color: black;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]Clemmb<o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; color: black;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]First, let’s talk about the objective of your photo, are the flowers the object or is the bride?<o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; color: black;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]If the flowers are then I would make this area larger, if not, then you need to separate the bride from the background – she needs to “pop out”.<o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; color: black;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]A way to do this (and there many), but separate the bride from the background via layers, for example, then make the background blurred or “washed it out”, or change the photo to a colored photo.<o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; color: black;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]This would help the bride to stand out more. Photoshop has these tools or you can use a “plug-in” to do a first class job.<o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; color: black;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]As the photo stands currently, the bride bends into the background.<o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; color: black;"]<o:p><span style="font-size: small;"]</o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; color: black;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]Your thoughts?<o:p></o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; color: black;"]<o:p><span style="font-size: small;"]</o:p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; color: black;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]Bob<span style="font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: black;"]<o:p></o:p>
I am by no means a professional but I have a friend that had a bridal photo treated like yours and it is awesome in print but in my novice eye maybe mute the flowers a bit so it doesnt pop so much the black and white in my opinion is timeless and should be a part of the optionspresented to your client and I agree with Bob in a little more subject background seperation via a subtle layer blur.....just my 2c.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
..or you shoot it properly at the right DOF to begin with? It saves you a lot of portprocessing and time.
I took the liberty of editing the image. Bare with me.
Even in total black & white, with a different contrast to see more of the bride's face, and with vignetting to steer the viewer away from the background which has too much going on,.. I still have trouble with this image. Let me explain:
In the postprocessed version, you cannot help but look at the flowers because they are the only spot of colour. Not only does this make the flowers the immediate point of attention, it also makes them more or less the main subject of the photo. In that case, I would have taken a shot where the flowers were more prominent as a subject, not a blotch of color without much detail and with too many distractions. When you shoot or postproces you have to know what you want to show people. In the case of the original photo: it is not the bride (because the flowers grab all the attention) nor is it the flowers (there is not enough information there to satisfy me as a viewer after you draw my attention to them by adding color). You know what I mean? (Again: I am having trouble desribing this in a language that is not my own).
That postprocessing choice is effects only. What does it really add? In my honest opinion, apart from color, not much. Is that enough? I vote no. This is a bride on one of the biggest days of her life. Adding stuff like this should be done with care and function and is often not even necessary if you ask me.
What is left when the effects are gone? Does that make the picture better? In my opinion that leaves us with a picture of somebody who is not making contact with the camera, in a staged position/mindframe that doesn't do much in terms of emotion. It's better though because (after some contrast tweaks) I am looking at the bride, who I think should be the subject of the picture instead of her colored flowers. However, even despite adding a mild vignette, she is still in surroundings that have loads and loads of lines that conflict with each other. That still gives this image something 'restless' (what I called messy). Read up on rules of thirds and lines and symmetry: you'll see what I mean. There's too much going on.
That is the bigger version of my critique.
Please note that I am just one person with one opinion and I mean this in the best possible way. Had I loved this picture I would have shouted it from the rooftops. I mean you no harm whatsoever. I was trained in art school, went on to become an art director and as such graded thousands of pictures of hundreds of photographers over the last few years. I may simply be overly critical.
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/534...f000107bwc.jpg
My first thought it that I would have moved her to the left a bit, so that her head was over the middle of the three doorways. Primary reason being color balance. The tone of her skin blends in a bit too much with the background. Or maybe if her veil had been spread out a bit to the right to provide some contrast.
Also, I probably would have gone with red roses, but that might have been a cusotmer preferance (and I suspect accurate to what she was really holding).
Those who things said I like it overall and, personally, I think using black and white may have worked better due to her skin tone (do you have a color version?).
Madison I see what you are saying now but hey dont critique any of my work you may make me sell my stuff and give it up...... I am just kidding...
Oh, quick comment about Madison...
The internet is a big place and us native english speakers have a tendancy to think everyone else speaks it fluently and understand the nuances of the language. We're being arrogant/ignorant.
People need to stop and consider the possibility that they are communicating with someone from the other side of the world. I 'speak' (i.e. internet communication) to people from other countries regluarly and, my little soap box post here aside, I make the mistake sometimes too, even with people from the UK. While they are obviously english speakers, even the differences in our languages can cause offence.
It'd be nice if, in forums, people posted their location and native language tho. Would help stop the misunderstandings.
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Originally Posted by RBarrz
Well: I say these things to make people more aware. Wanted to have a blurry background? Shoot it that way, don't do it in postprocessing. Wanted to photograph flowers? Take a shot where they are more prominent and in detail. Wanted to photograph the bride? Make sure we are looking at the bride and not a little blotch of color, and also make sure we see enough detail in the face of the bride (see the difference in the two pictures). It's about choices when shooting. This is what makes a photographer/an image good or not (in my opinion).
BUT, like I said, I am just one person with one opinion and it does all boil down to taste so there are bound to be a lot of people who will love the image: seriously! So read my critique, and discard it if you don't agree. Or speak up and tell me I am wrong. Everybody should express their opinion. That's cool.
Also: think from your clients perspective. Photographers (or former designer and art directors) can be very critical of images, where as the average clients look at them in a different way. I am sure the woman in thic picture likes it. Because she doesn't have the same way of looking at it as photographers do.
So please never get discouraged when I say something like this. Don't sell your stuff and give up. Read it, agree or disagree, and keep it up. 100 photographers will take 100 different approaches and everyone should shoot it the way they feel is right. But my critique (see the larger post) about this image remains.
Thanks for the good discussion. I posted this because I knew it would draw much of the criticism that it did. I see a lot of the C&C on this website in critique of the backgrounds being too busy or not blurred enough. Now I like a good background blur as much as the next photographer but sometimes the customer wants the background. This location is an old Spanish mission in Goliad, Texas. Lots of history here. The walls behind her are the ruins from the original mission and the building to the back is a reproduction of one of the original buildings. About 95% of our brides prefer their bridals to be on this location. This is probably one of the busiest backgrounds on the mission grounds and not my favorite but seems to be a favorite of our customers. I usually only present this shot in color but we have had a drought and there was no green so I converted it to B&W to keep it from looking dead. The bride wanted the flowers in color. As a matter of fact about 50% of our brides ask for B&W with flowers in color. Must not be too dated in south Texas. Just old fashion country folks I guess. Also about 50% of our brides get a 16x20 enlargement of this same spot with this messy compasition. Most in color but some in B&W. This particular bride got this in a 24x30 and people were standing around it at the reception raving about how beautiful it is. I think some of her brides maids are wanting us for their weddings. There are of course photographers with many different styles and customers choose the photographer that fits the style they like. At a bridal shoot like this I take close to 200 shots many of which fit what many of you suggest. Business is good and we are turning down potential customers because we have as much as we can handle. Here is another example of a bridal portrait from the same location. As a matter of fact the wall here is the building in the background of the photo above.
Mark
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I totally agree with you if you want a shot to capture a subject a specific way you definitely should shoot it as such. I am not selling I was just joking I like to see how others shoot and the many different opinions that may arise in discussions. I love this hobby and as you state and wish to gain greater knowledge of what makes a good pic when working for a client. I have the habit of over-post processing my pics right now. Maybe its just a phase or maybe I spent too much on CS3 and want to make artsy shots out of the ordinary. I will really appreciate whatever criticism from the trained and untrained eye. Sorry to go off topic but now that I have a better rig and alot of ops here in Japan I will be posting alot more images. Nice shot clemmb..... I wish i had more pics when I was in texas alot of great locations to shoot! Tremendous history there.
Well, I think the best bridal shot is what the bride likes the best. Her day, her choice.
If you're interested in what I like, which doesn't matter more than any weight you choose,
In the original, I like the composition of the bride herself. I like how she's standing. I don't mind that she's not looking at the camera, and I like how she's looking to be looked at, but just a little self-conscious. I agree with the consensus about the background. I don't really care about the flowers. If they're in color and she's not, I think, for me, it's a little distracting, and more of a novelty, but something of interest too perhaps. i'm kind of on the fence about it. It's fine, butif I was going that route, I probably would have gotten closer and lower and put the flowers in more prominent perspective.
In terms of the background, I'm on the side of the scale of distracting. If you could do shallower depth of field, that might be good. If you could simply overpower it by using very bright close flashes, to put the background more in the dark, I think that'd be good too.
But, again, as others have said, my comments are only reflecting what I would have liked. The bride rules.