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Am I completely missing something or is Adobe gone gangster? Not that I need too, but I saw an update for Camera Raw recently and went to look at the download. Since they went to version 5 the minimum requirements are CS4, Elements 6.0, or Premiere 4.0. I own CS3. Does this mean that if I buy a new body in the next year that I will not be able to convert my raws with ACR unless I upgrade to CS4? They'll support ACR for Elements 6.0 but won't support it for CS3?
Simply unbelievable.
Chuck, yes, it's true. You need CS4. One option is to use another CR program, such as Digital Photo Professional, convert to a TIF, then you can use CS3.
This is the reason I went with Aperture. I have CS3 and they refused to update the RAW to support my 5DmkII.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Lee
Correct. The only workaround is to convert to DNG, then the old CS3 version will read it.
This is the problem I ran into myself recently after upgrading to 5D Mark II. Where exactly do you convert to DNG? I did not see that option in Digital Photo Professional that came with the camera.
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Originally Posted by Vlad Xp
It's not a Canon thing, it's an Adobe thing:
http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/
Click on the link under "DOWNLOADS" to get the free Adobe DNG Converter. (It is updated regularly with support for new cameras.)
Thanks for the link. I just tried it, and the DNG files work fine with ACR 4.6 (CS3)
they did the same thing from CS to CS2, and CS2 to CS3. I forget
which one wouldn't support the 40D RAW files, but I know I had to
upgrade or do the ol' .DNG conversion workaround.
Adobe is by
no means the worst offender at forcing proprietary changes on their
consumer base. There's really no alternative if you want to use their
products - from Apple to Microsoft to Adobe to ...etc. It's
an accepted practice for consumers to shell out hundreds of dollars every year or two so they can continue to use their original software with any degree of compatibility.
Imagine if your car simply stopped
working after 18 months if you didn't buy some new
type of filtration system. Or the electricity
in your home - every year it required a new converter to
supply current at your receptacles.
unreal. Office 2007 saves Word docs as .docx files instead of .doc, the file type they've used since the beginning. Microsoft has offered owners of previous Office suites a free downloadable utility program that will open the new files, but I wonder for how long...
I hate word 2007. I liked 2000 much better.
I wish they'd stop being fancy, and just be reliable. But, doesn't move software, does it?
The person saving the file has many backwards-compatibility options. He can save the file in Office 2003 .doc format.Quote:
Originally Posted by canoli
That totally rotts!! Shame on you Adobe!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
My dad is the same way. He actually just changed all the dialogue boxes on his windows desktop to be the retro boxes with sharp edges. They look like they're from Windows 98! But that's not reliability really I guess haha.
I like reliability too, but I'm not against the flashy, sleek looking designs haha.
Sorry, I got nothing constructive to add to the thread.
-Rodger
Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorTM
Of course you're right. The point is, you have to remember to do that every time - at least every time you'll be sharing that document with someone using pre-2007 software.
Not a huge deal, didn't stop me from buying Office 2007. But annoying nonetheless. Keeping track of who's using what is a pain...
The problem with the excellent idea is the latest DNG converter doesn't support my 7D CR2's and therefore my options are:
1) Wait until the new DNG converter supports my 7D. (At which time the converter will not support CS3)
2)Use Canon's DPP and save as 16bit TIFF and then use CS3 ( which won't save as jpeg ) and then re-open with DPP and then convert. If it wasn't for PS CS3 being such a powerful program....I would boycott.
I'm compelled to choose #2 and only shoot RAW when doing portraits. My live action sports simply is to labor intensive for all of this conversion steps.
Shame on you Adobe....I agree!
Cheers,
Jay Scott
weclickyoupick.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by weclickyoupick.com
Are you saying that DNG Converter 5.5 gives you an error message? When I use it, it converts 7D CR2 files just fine, and I am able to open them in ACR CS3.
Or are you referring to the fact that Adobe does not yet "officially" support the 7D? That is true, but it applies equally to DNG Converter as well as ACR CS4 (and Lightroom 2.5).
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Originally Posted by weclickyoupick.com
That is incorrect. DNG files created by the converter can be opened just fine in CS3, even after the next DNG Converter upgrade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weclickyoupick.com
I don't think any of that makes sense.
Thanx for the feedback Daniel....
Yes...I was assuming that when Adobe lists tons of cameras and my 7D isn't on there....that the DNG 5.5 wouldn't work. I could have sworn I read the the DNG 5.5 wouldn't work with CS3....but maybe I'm confusing with the latest edition of ACR.
I'll try to download the most recent DNG and try it with my 7D RAW's.
As far as not making sense per se.....I save the CR2 as a 16bit TIFF while in DPP. When I open this TIFF in CS3.....I can adjust....but CS3 won't let me save to jpeg from a 16bit TIFF. I have to go back to DPP to convert to jpeg.
Thanx again....I'll let you know if I have issues with the most recent DNG.
Cheers, Jeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by weclickyoupick.com
Yes it will. Adobe designed it so that you have to manually convert to 8-bits first:
- Image -> "Mode" -> "8 bits/channel"
There are many good Photoshop books and videos for beginners. I recommend that you check out Lynda.com.
Thanx for the "beginner's" tip. Lynda has been quite helpful!
When I discovered that you, indeed, cannot save to jpeg from a 16bit TIFF in CS3...I realized that I could drop down to 8bit.....but that's not saving to jpeg from a 16bit TIFF.
Here's why I wouldn't want to drop from 16bit TIFF to 8bit TIFF before saving to .jpeg:
"Digital images are made up of three channels of picture data: Red, Green, & Blue. In 8 bit there are 256 "steps" of information per channel from absolute black to absolute white. In 12 bit (which is what your camera actually is producing, Photoshop just rounds it up to 16 bit) you get 4,096 "steps" per channel for the same range of information. In true 16 bit mode, you get 65,536 steps of color for each channel from absolute black to absolute white, so you can see that as you use higher bit files each step is increasingly smaller. more and smaller steps means smoother color.
<p itxtvisited="1"]
<p itxtvisited="1"]The reason this makes a difference, is that any editing step you make with a digital darkroom software program, cost you some steps of info for each edit. Start with more and smaller steps and the loss is increasingly minute with less consequences to the image.
<p itxtvisited="1"]
<p itxtvisited="1"]Almost all output devices today are 24 bit (8 bits per R,G & B channel) the ideal is to be sendign the output device a "perfect 8 bit file"."
<p itxtvisited="1"]Thanks for the previous tip though concerning the lastest version of DNG....I had sucess downloading the DNG5.5 and was able to convert my 7D CR2's to DNG.
<p itxtvisited="1"]My only question now is.....how much do I lose in going from CR2 to DNG...as I noticed the files are smaller? I'll have to research that one!
<p itxtvisited="1"]Cheers,
<p itxtvisited="1"]Jeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by weclickyoupick.com
A JPEG file can't use more than 8 bit data. Whatever you're using to save as JPEG is doing the 16 to 8 bit conversion. As long as you've done all your work while in 16 bit mode, and ensured all the work is mixed (flatten layers), then you've got a very high quality 16 bit image to use for the final conversion step.
Workflow by numbers:
1. You load your TIFF.
2. Process it all while at 16 bit.
3. Next, optionally, you may save as PSD to keep a high quality 16 bit with layers, etc if you'd like.
4. Next, flatten to ensure the mixing occurs while still at 16 bit.
5. Once again, optionally, you can save a copy still at uncompressed 16 bit if you'd like.
6. Convert to 8 bit, and save to JPEG.
Thanx David,
Now that Daniel has helped me get from my CR2 to DNG....I can now save straight from DNG to JPEG in CS3. So I won't be using Canon's DPP for CR2 conversion. Am I losing anything by not going from CR2 to TIFF and then to JPEG in CS3? In other words....is DNG 8 or 16bit?
I appreciate your help.....both of you!
Jeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by weclickyoupick.com
Great! You're welcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weclickyoupick.com
David is right. There is no such thing as "saving to jpeg from a 16bit TIFF". It has to be converted to 8 bit first. Some software will do it for you automatically, others require you to manually do it (Photoshop).
Quote:
Originally Posted by weclickyoupick.com
You lose nothing. The files are smaller because they use smarter compression. (It's like the difference between LZW-compressed TIFF and ZIP-compressed TIFF.)
If you use sRAW, you will find that the DNG files are much larger. That's because DNG was not designed to contain sRAW as is, so it has to be converted to a larger file size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weclickyoupick.com
It's the same as whatever your raw file is. If your CR2 file is 14-bit, then the DNG is 14-bit.
I have Photoshop CS2. Is there any way to used and edit my CR2 files from a Canon Rebel T2i?
I can completely understand the frustration, but you need to also look at it from the business point of view.
They develop new versions of one software application to work with the new versions of the other primary software application! E.g, the Newer ACR is for the Newer PS. It's not a bait nor switch.
How Much does it cost to download, install and use ACR? Last I checked it didn't cost anything. Nothing extra anyways beyond what you already paid for Photoshop.
Should we expect continued support forever from Adobe for old outdated software? The reality of things is, No! Keep in mind, old outdated in Computer tech is 6 to 18 months.
Adobe is in the business of developing software, and just like any other company in this our favorite free market capitalist society, they are also in the business of making a profit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, is there? Why should Adobe or any other company be expected to continue developing software that is backward compatible with older outdated software. They wouldn't be in business very long if they had to keep supporting outdated software that is no longer on the market with new "Free" downloads. They are simply doing their best to keep us up to date at the same time keeping all their current software up to date working with each other. We would all lose out if they couldn't make any profit.
Computer technologies, (Hardware and Software) has been the same since it really started taking off for the home personal use in the 1980's. It is constantly evolving and frequently updated with the newer and better. Knowing this ahead of time we cannot honestly expect any company to continue supporting the old outdated just because there are still a few who might be using it.
Compared to the late 80's through the 90's the evolution of computer tech has slowed some. It used to be your computer and software were outdated almost as soon as you walked out the store with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cma6
Back on page one of this thread Daniel Browning posted a link to where you can Download the Adobe DNG Converter. DNG is essentially just another RAW file format. Convert your CR2 files to DNG and you should be able to open them with Photoshop.