Used and Refurbished Lenses and Cameras

Hey all,


This is mostly for my information once I get around to having money again (just bought my first 'big boy' lens and wont be working till august since I'm at college and then in Russia for 2 months) but I've been looking around at the next few upgrades I want, a few new L lenses, new body etc. What I wanted to know what sort of quality/reliability are you getting with the average used or refurbished gear?


What it comes down to if I'm still spending thousands of dollars on equipment either way I'd be more comfortable spending the extra few hundred or a thousand bucks for something that I know will work for quite some time.


~Jordan

I've never bought refurbished, but most of my lenses I've bought used. Why? Because lenses retain their value remarkably well unlike most other consumer goods like cars and computers etc. But like a new car off the lot, lenses do lose 10-15% of their value immediately. I don't like the idea of losing that much right away. I trust in Canon's quality and product.


Here is my process: I generally decide what lens I want. Decide on a price range, then hunt buy/sell forums for a few days (sometimes weeks) looking for a lens from an a) reputable seller with feedback, b) that is relatively new like less than 1 year old, c) that has been photographed well by the seller and shows no wear, d) that includes all the packaging materials, e) that may come with a few freebies like hoods and filter, f) when less than a year old I ask for the sales receipt and warranty card and the word of the seller that if the lens should have troubles he or she will help me with the warranty information, g) that has only had one owner. That's a lot I know, but I find that sellers who are conscientious enough to be able to provide all those things are remarkably good at taking care of their gear and honest people who want to maintain their investment and help another hobbiest like myself.

One other thing, in case you hadn't noticed, this process takes some time. I however enjoy it. You may not enjoy hunting and find that your time is worth 10-15%, as well as the peace of mind you get with a full 1 year warranty. For me it allows me to communicate with sellers about what it is they used the lens for and what they feel the strengths and weaknsesses of the lens are. But, again, that may be just me.

I bought a new 70-200 F2.8 IS lens, found it wasn't sharp and sold it. I then purchased a refurbished 70-200 F2.8 non IS from Adorama, and it was perfect in every respect. Saved some dough too. Thoroughly recommended.

<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS';"]Thank you for the recommendation for buying refurbished from Adorama Camera - very much appreciated.<o:p></o:p>


<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Sincerely<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS';"]<o:p></o:p>


<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Helen Oster
Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador<o:p></o:p>


<st1:personname w:st="on"]<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com</st1:personname><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o:p></o:p>


<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]www.adoramacamera.com<o:p></o:p>

KEH, Adorama are good choices. Both will also buy your gear and offer trade-ins.

Helen,


I just bought a new 1D Mark III from Adorama, recieved it 2 days ago. The camera is wonderful, thank you for your price and service. I have had nothing but good experiences over the years with Adorama.


Kyle

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Originally Posted by Justin Stone

But like a new car off the lot, lenses do lose 10-15% of their value immediately.
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Not always. A friend recently bought an 85/1.2 for his wife's 40th birthday. He was struggling with what to get, since the market had been going south, but he said "we may not have a house, but at least we'll have great pictures of our kids, etc." I told him if things got bad, he could sell that lens for nearly what he paid, as LensRentals was selling 1 or 2 of their 85/1.2 lenses at the time for $1675. That's 7% down from new, and AFTER 40 weeks of rental.

Another vote in favor of Adorama's refurbs...I bought my 40D as a refurb from Adorama in October, and am very happy with it. It was about $200 cheaper than the price of a new one at the time, and the camera was indistinguisable from a new one. I wouldn't recommend it for professionals because of the warranty on new bodies, but if you, like me, are a serious amateur who upgrades to last year's model every year or so, it's a great route to go to save some money that would be better spent on glass.

Another happy Adorama refurbished buyer. Bought a 100-400L last year for like $200 less and it was almost as good as brand new.

I've been toying with the idea of upgrading from my 40D and adding a lens or two....checking out refurbs vs used vs new. Having talked to a number of smart people and looked at craigslist and the various forum listings a couple of times a week for the past few months, I've developed sort of a checklist with the main pros and cons of each option:


TOP CHOICES


- Buying used from a friend. This has a lot of advantages...first, you probably already have an idea about the person's character/honesty, how they treat their equipment, maybe even why they're selling it. Second, you can almost always borrow the equipment to see if you really like it before buying. Third, you know the item's history. And fourth, when you're dealing with a friend, the price may be very good, because the seller doesn't have to go through the hassle of listing or shipping the item, and he/she knows you're unlikely to pull a fast one, etc.


- Buying new. You get the advantage of a warranty and a retailer who (almost always, especially if you're detailing with a reputable one) will help you out if there's a problem.


ALMOST-AS-GOOD CHOICES


- Buying refurb/"blems"/open box. I've found that this is great for stuff like flashes, bags and tripods. I haven't tried it with a body or lens yet because I can't shake the sneaking feeling that there's some pesky problem that will return. "Cosmetic flaws" are a great way to save money--really, who cares if there's a small scratch on a monopod? That's going to happen soon enough with use anyway.


- Buying through forums. Obviously, this is a popular option. People want to protect their reputation, and many of the forum users seem like the kind of photographers who take very good care of their equipment. If they're selling, it's usually because they want to upgrade, or because they're not using the item very much. Most are very forthcoming about the condition and history of the item. The biggest disadvantage is that you usually can't try before you buy (regional/local forums excepted).


MIGHT BE FINE, BUT CAUTION ADVISED


- Craigslist. After scanning the listings for a little while, you start to get a sense for which ones to avoid. Confidence-builders include a good description of the item and decent photos. Warning signs are brand-new items without a box or receipts, items with multiple owners, sellers who won't answer questions about serial numbers or shutter counts, etc., and the countless listings that just sound fishy ("I bought this 1DS Mark III for my girlfriend and it's too much camera for her so I'm selling it for $2,000 for a quick sale"). Personal annoyance: Sellers who copy and paste descriptions of their gear from The-Digital-Picture.com and try to pass off Bryan's reviews as their own thoughts.


WATCH OUT


- EBay. Sure, you can find tons of decent stuff from reputable sellers, but it's still easy to get burned. And who wants the hassle of having to fight with someone over a problem? I bought a lens a few years ago that was described as "clean and optically perfect." The seller had lots of positive feedback. The lens arrived and there was a chip in the multicoating. The seller claimed that he was talking about the glassbeing optically perfect, not the coating, and when I looked back at the photos from the listing, the chip turned out to be visible (but the seller had managed to make it look like a reflection). Ebay wouldn't back me up because the item was as listed and pictured.I think a lot of Ebay sellers cruise garage sales looking for gear they can buy for pocket change to re-sell...in which case they probably know little about photography, and you're never going to find out the item's history. I also bought a power tool that was described as "starts right up and runs great." What the seller didn't say was that it would grind to a halt after 2 minutes of use, once the motor warmed up. I wouldn't buy anything used on Ebay unless I knew the seller. Well, maybe a lens cap.


Sorry for the long post...hope it's helpful!


Jeff

I am a reliability engineer by profession (though new to the field), and in terms of the reliability of electronics, there are usually a certain number of units of a product that come off the manufacturing line with weaknesses that can cause failure in the first 90 days. In some ways, a used or moreso, a refurbished lens will probably be less likely to have these weaknesses. This depends a lot on the manufacturing process and whether Canon stress tests its units before sending them out the door (I don't know about this). Once an item is found defective and is refurbished by the manufacturer, it is very unlikely that it will have the same defect again. Lightning striking twice and all...

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Originally Posted by Stephen Probert

I am a reliability engineer by profession (though new to the field), and in terms of the reliability of electronics, there are usually a certain number of units of a product that come off the manufacturing line with weaknesses that can cause failure in the first 90 days. In some ways, a used or moreso, a refurbished lens will probably be less likely to have these weaknesses. This depends a lot on the manufacturing process and whether Canon stress tests its units before sending them out the door (I don't know about this). Once an item is found defective and is refurbished by the manufacturer, it is very unlikely that it will have the same defect again. Lightning striking twice and all...

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Wow, I didn't know that. That's very interesting and it definitely gives me a new perspective on refurbished items. Thanks for the insight!

<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS';"]Stephen's post certainly reflects the feedback we receive concerning refurbished items. <o:p></o:p>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS';"]Items that come off a production line can only be sampled at random for potential problems, whereas a 'refurbished by Canon camer'a, has, of course, been attended to individually, by hand<o:p></o:p>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS';"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Sincerely<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS';"]<o:p></o:p>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Helen Oster
Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador<o:p></o:p>


<st1:personname w:st="on"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com</st1:personname><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o:p></o:p>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]www.adoramacamera.com<o:p></o:p>
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So with refurbished gear I've noticed that sometimes there is a difference in price between the same product. Is that caused by the cost of refurbs or the quality of what wasn't fixed?

I love Adorama's refurbed list. It's the homepage on one of my tabs. I attempted a few times to get an EF 50mm f/1.4 USM. Someone always beat me to it. They (Adorama) seemed to have caught on to how quick it was moving and raised the price on that item. So, Isettling for,a refurbed EF 50mm f1.8 II, which I've enjoyed.Later I got a refurbed 430EX to go with it. As far as I can tell the only physical difference from new merchandise is the Small "Refurb" sticker. I know the warranty is the only real difference but in my experience, limited though it may be in photography, with other electronics I've found that if it works fine from the start and first few hours of useit will, with almost no exception, outlast the factory warranty anyway.

I'm a huge fan of Adorama's refurbished list as well. They have even called after I ordered something and told me they checked it before shipping and it just wasn't up to their standards, so they were refunding my money. I have bought a body, a lens and a flash from them and i I have recommended them to at least 20 firends who have bought lens.

Thank you so much for your feedback, which is very much appreciated.


However, don't forget that I am always available for direct contact regarding queries concerning an order from Adorama Camera or AdoramaPix.





Sincerely


Helen Oster


Adorama Camera customer Service Ambassador


helen.oster@adoramacamera.com


www.adorama.com

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Originally Posted by Ozimax

I bought a new 70-200 F2.8 IS lens, found it wasn't sharp and sold it. I then purchased a refurbished 70-200 F2.8 non IS from Adorama, and it was perfect in every respect. Saved some dough too. Thoroughly recommended.
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<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]Many thanks for the recommendation for Adorama - very much appreciated.
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<o:p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]</o:p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]I do hope we can continue to offer you great service - but do let us know if there is anything we at Adorama Camera or at AdoramaPix could do to make your shopping experience even better!
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<o:p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]</o:p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]Sincerely
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<o:p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]</o:p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]Helen Oster
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<st1:personname w:st="on"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com</st1:personname>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]www.adorama.com
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<o:p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]</o:p>

I've purchased both my bodies used.


My 20D I got when it was still quite new, from the local camera store. This one I was able to see, hear the story, etc.
My 1DmkII I just purchsed off eBay. It had a very thorough description and lots of pictures and turned out just as good as expected.


As far as lenses, I usually browse the forums for stuff, but so far have ended up buying new, usually on Canon's rebate list. In this way the prices sometimes are so close to what they sell for used that it's just not worth it in my mind to buy a used one.


But, I did just pick up a refurb 50 1.8 from Adorama, it's currently in transit. I generally wouldnt be afraid ofa refurb product as like mentioned, they are quality tested before being re-sold.


Heck, the laptop that I'm using is a Dell factory refurb, works like new, looks like new, saved big $$.

Very useful thread for me. I have to admit that I been wary of used lenses and it is good to see all the votes of confidence about Adorama and their refurbished lenses. I had not considered the whole thing about extra look/time spent on refurbished lenses and that makes sense to me.


Lots of very sound suggestions too about what to consider when buying used.


Thanks,


Rick

Helen,


Do the refurbs come with the full Canon warranty or a limited type warranty? I've also seen other stores sell "white box" lenses, does Adorama have the same type of offerings?


Thanks,
Luis

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<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<o:p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]</o:p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]Dear Luis
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]All the Canon cameras sold by Adorama are refurbished by Canon, and come with a standard3 monthbase warranty - versus 1 year on new&hellip;&hellip;... however, many customers purchase a MACK warranty, which brings the warranty to 3 years, so you actually have a longer warranty than with a new one - and a Refurb item will have been checked by the manufacturer by hand, very thoroughly. So, it could actually turn out to be more dependable than a new item - which will only have been checked by a process of systematic quality control protocol!
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]I don't actually know the answer about white box lenses - I'll have to check and come back to you.
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<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]Sincerely
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]Helen Oster
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador

I've pretty much bought exclusively from Adorama's refurbished section. All you miss is the box, but everything else is perfect. You save a lot and it's not as much risk as a used item.

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Originally Posted by Ozimax

I bought a new 70-200 F2.8 IS lens, found it wasn't sharp and sold it. I then purchased a refurbished 70-200 F2.8 non IS from Adorama, and it was perfect in every respect. Saved some dough too. Thoroughly recommended.
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Thanks so much for posting about your recent excellent experience purchasing refurbished (recertified) from Adorama Camera.


At Adorama we aim to provide competive pricing andthe highest qualityproducts alongside excellence in customer service; nevertheless,it is really appreciated when our customers can spare the time to let us (and others) know that we are getting it right!





<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Sincerely


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Helen <span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Oster
<span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]www.adorama.com