Hassled for taking pictures in the mall

Yesterday, I was taking some pictures of my wife and two boys in our local mall. Afterwards, I turned around and took some wide-angle shots of the mall interior itself. I'm huge on historical photography. I'll take pictures of seemingly nothing, just because I know that in 20-30 years, they will be retro.


At any rate, the mall security guard came over and started hassling me about taking pictures, saying it was against mall policy, that it's a security risk, and that the tenants get upset about it. He asked me to delete the pictures. Being that my wife and mother-in-law were with me, I didn't want to cause too much of a stink, so I deleted the wide-angle shots, but refused to delete the ones of my wife and children, which he was OK with.


What were my rights, and has anyone else encountered this? I am sensitive to not just taking a picture of random people when they walk by...I tried to do it when there was nobody in front of me. I really was just interested in the interior of the mall. I'm sure a mall qualifies as private property, but to me, I should not have had to delete any of my pictures, and if I would have been alone, I would have resisted to the nth degree.

See this:http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm


Basically, you're correct in that a shopping mall is private property, and it's within their right to prohibit photography on their premises. Not sure about the demand to delete the images. They could not have confiscated your film, I believe - no idea how that applies to digital.

That is a pity.


The same thing actually happened to me yesterday! I was walking out on a pier to get some shots of a breeding Brown Pelican, when a man in a suit in a hotel across the street yelled at me and claimed it was "private property". I just didn't need a fight (plus there were other pelicans) so I did leave. He didn't ask me to delete my images though (I wouldn't have anyway [6]).


brendan

Sometimes it's better to keep the peace and delete the files, then restore them when you get home [6]


It's relatively easy to restore deleted files on flash memory...you can pretty much use any data-recovery software, the one I've used is TestDisk:


http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Download


You might want to avoid taking any more pictures on the same card after you delete some, there are no guarantees on recovery if you do.

Ah what a shame!

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Originally Posted by davideglasgow

At any rate, the mall security guard came over and started hassling me about taking pictures, saying it was against mall policy, that it's a security risk, and that the tenants get upset about it. He asked me to delete the pictures.

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I think it wouldn't be any problem at all if you used your mobile phone or tiny point and shoot. Perhaps you could sell your DSLR and use one of them? [:P]


Nah just kidding! It's a pitty, but yea it's private property so they can set the rules.

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Originally Posted by davideglasgow

but to me, I should not have had to delete any of my pictures, and if I would have been alone, I would have resisted to the nth degree.

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Can understand that, but you might get more problems than you want. By the way security risk??? Hmmm paranoid people, you could use any camera, practically invisible, to do the same. Really for checking security you don't care about any distortion or chromatic abberations [:P] at least I never have [:#]


Jan


Ps: ever heard of shoot and run?? [A]

I ran into this problem in Bogota, Colombia, but I've never tried in the States. What I do know is, that if you want to take pictures of the mall and can get the same shot from the road that that is ok. I think as long as you're on public property when taking the picture, you're in the clear. I'm about 90% sure about that. Hope that helps.

I ran into this issueindirectlywhile travelling through Vietnam. I say indirectly because it was someone else getting into trouble and I'm bloody glad it was them and not me.


We were visiting Ho Chi Minh's mausoleum and some guy snuck a disposable camera in with him and took a pic while walking around old Uncle Ho. This is a place where you can't take ANYTHING in, and you go through metal detectors, get escorted though etc. You aren't even allowed to stop as you're walking around the sarcophagus (I stopped for about 2.5 secs and got jabbed in the ribs with a rifle [:|] ).


Anyway, this guy got held down at gun point, arrested and roughed up a bit. Who knows what happened from there.


I wonder if he got to keep his pictures [:P]
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When I was an MP in the Marine Corps, stationed on air bases,I had to seize film (digital wasn't around yet) taken on our flight lines.The funny thing is when I was stationed at MCAS Iwakuni,Japan there were always Japanese guys with really long white lenses just off the base taking pics of our aircraft and we couldn't do jack! I stopped one day and they started taking pics of me! I shot back with my old Rebel G...I'll try to find some of those pics.

I agree that it is sometimes easier to comply with silly requests, but I'm not sure you could have been legally compelled to delete your pictures.


If the mall permits anyone to enter and doesn't post signs stating photography is prohibited, they would have some difficulty prevailing in court. This would be especially difficult if they had to explain why every patron with a cell phone camera wasn't being stopped andasked to delete pictures. The mall is literally filled with cameras, the burden would be on the owner to explain why your pictures presented asecurity danger. Otherwise, the action against you was simply arbitrary.


If I had been in your position and the photo was newsworthy or presented some value to me, I wouldhave resisted.My first question in these circumstances is, "are you officially detaining me andon what legal grounds."

All they can do is tell you the policy and ask you to stop. You don't have to delete your pictures as they are your property now. If you continue shooting after that the rent-a-cop can tell you to leave and get in touch with the police for tresspassing issues.


I had some lady freak out on me when I was taking pictures of my daughter at a childrens event at a public playground park. Of course I had a 40D strapped around my neck while other people were shooting with small point and shoot cameras. She didn't freak out on them though. She started yelling at me about privacy law and drawing lots of attention to me. I was so ticked off and embarrased at the same time. I didn't want to make a scene so I put the camera away. I evenwarned another guy that strolled up with a DSLR andlet him know about the battleaxe that would likely get in his face too. So when I got home I started researching photography rights.


Basically if you are on public property and there isn't any posted signs about photographyyour free to shoot. If you are on private property and a representitive of that said place (ie. Security) asks you to stop then your done shooting even if there isn't any signs. If you are standing on public property and can see something on private property you want to shoot then you are able to do so.


I would also bet that if I was a women taking those same pics of my girl with the same camera setup that the old hag wouldn't have said anything either. Anyways thats my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Ghosthex

Basically if you are on public property and there isn't any posted signs about photographyyour free to shoot. If you are on private property and a representitive of that said place (ie. Security) asks you to stop then your done shooting even if there isn't any signs. If you are standing on public property and can see something on private property you want to shoot then you are able to do so.

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Clarification: your second sentence is a little misleading. If you are on private property and an appropriate representative asks you to stop, you only need to stop long enough to walk off their private property (and ideally onto public property), at which point you're free to resume.


Also, regarding the lady who freaked out on you, you should have said tactfully and directly that you're on public property and have the right to take pictures. Any effort to interfere with that is coercion, and the police will be called if you continue.

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Originally Posted by peety3

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Originally Posted by Ghosthex

Basically if you are on public property and there isn't any posted signs about photographyyour free to shoot. If you are on private property and a representitive of that said place (ie. Security) asks you to stop then your done shooting even if there isn't any signs. If you are standing on public property and can see something on private property you want to shoot then you are able to do so.

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Clarification: your second sentence is a little misleading. If you are on private property and an appropriate representative asks you to stop, you only need to stop long enough to walk off their private property (and ideally onto public property), at which point you're free to resume.


Also, regarding the lady who freaked out on you, you should have said tactfully and directly that you're on public property and have the right to take pictures. Any effort to interfere with that is coercion, and the police will be called if you continue.
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As long as you are on public property you can take pictures of anything you can see. If the item you want to shoothappens to be on private property and you can view it from the public side of the fence so to speak then there is nothing stopping you from taking the picture. Thats why themovie stars build the huge fences to keep the photographers from taking pics of them. They know they cannot stop you from taking pictures from the public side. All they can do is try and block your view of them with big walls and fences.


As for the freaking out lady I wasn't armed with this information yet. It was this incident with her that lead me to look into the matter. She was totally wrong but as a father I totally understand her concern. Also if I kept taking pictures what would she do? Would I be rolling around on the ground with a 60 yr old woman in front of 500 parents and children. It would have become a lose/lose situation for me. I would been within my rights and yet the onus would have been on me to call the cops and likely have her charged with assault. The second she grabbed me or my camera and stopped me from going about my daily business the incident would now become personnal assault. If during an altercation with her my camera or lenses get wrecked I would have to mount a civil case to sue her for damages which could take considerable time to recoup the money and replace equipment.If she chose to stand there and simply continue to yell at me and draw more attention there would be nothing I could do. If she started using profanity it would be once again up to me or others there to call the cops and haveher charged with public profanity. When it came down to it the few pics I would have taken weren't worth the hassle.