Suggestions for gear change?

I am interested in shooting weddings, portraits, landscapes, and sports.


I currently have: Canon 50D, Canon 7D, EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS USM, EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM, EF 50mm f/1.4 USM, Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8, EF-S 60mm f/2.8 USM Macro, EF 1.4x teleconverter, two 430EXII Speedlites.


My question is this: I really want to shoot weddings (and am currently trying to market that) and I LOVE landscape photos. I really want my photos to have the look of the full-frame cameras (larger pixels, less noise, less distortion, etc...) My 7D is an absolutely amazing camera, as is the 50D. I'm thinking of getting rid of one of them (probably the 50D) and also ditching all or most of my 1.6x crop lenses to get a full-frame camera. The 5D MKII is the obvious choice. I REALLY want the 50mm f/1.2, but I have a feeling the 1.4 that I own will be okay on a full-frame. Anyone have experience with that? Also, I want a super wide-angle, but my Tokina 11-16mm will only work (properly) on my cropped body. I think I should have all EF lenses, because then I'll have two different focal length ranges depending on which camera I mount them on. If I get rid of my 60mm Macro, my Tokina 11-16, and my EF-S 17-55, I could turn around and purchase the EF 16-35mm f/2.8 II L USM. Now I realize that it's not a Macro (I don't really need one anyhow) and it doesn't have the versatility of the 17-55, but really, for weddings especially, I just need a 16-35 and a 50mm right? My gf can use my 70-200mm for the long shots on her Rebel T1i (500D) and that should do it, no?


What do you all suggest? I don't really want to spend much more money on my gear right now, until I start getting jobs, but I feel like the gear I have is silly (especially the Macro - yes it takes great portraits, but so do almost all my other lenses). I feel like converting to EF only is the best (unless I keep the 17-55 as my only EF-S lens, but I'll have to use it with my cropped body only, and I'll make less money to put into purchasing something new). Less is more right? I don't need every focal length range under the sun. Just the ones that count. I LOVE my 50mm f/1.4, but on my cropped bodies, but it's tough to get a nice "standard"-looking shot. Portraits are great though! Ugh... I'm just rambling.... any ideas?? My dream would be a 5DMKII and an EF 50mm f/1.2 as my "main" camera, and then have a second camera with ______ on it... ugh I don't know! :(





- Jordan


www.freshphoto-du-sud.fr


www.freshphotohawaii.com

For zooms I like the 16-35, 24-70, and the 70-200 II


for primes I like the 35, 85, and 135


Sell the 50d and all your ef-s lenses and get a 5d II

if you do end up selling your ef-s lenses im interested in your 17-55mm

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Originally Posted by Jordan

I really want to shoot weddings (and am currently trying to market that) and I LOVE landscape photos. I really want my photos to have the look of the full-frame cameras (larger pixels, less noise, less distortion, etc...)

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Although I'm not exactly how you 'see' larger pixels [:P] I think you'd really benefit from a 5DII.


What you do with your lens collection is a thornier issue to tackle (and one I plan to deal with once the 5DIII comes out - I've been making my recent lens purchases accordingly, although the only two EF-S lenses I have are ones with no FF equivalents - the 10-22mm and 17-55mm IS).


Since you really like your Tokina 11-16mm, ultimately, you'll want a 16-35mm f/2.8L for FF. Yes, the 50mm f/1.4 will do well on FF (where it will be 'normal' and f/1.4 instead of 85mm f/2.2). But, you're likely going to want something a little longer than 50mm to pair with the 16-35mm.


Let me throw something out for consideration - sell the 50D, Tokina 11-16mm, and the EF-S 60mm macro, and buy a 5DII and 16-35mm L. Your 'wedding kit' would be the 5DII and the 7D (it's better to have two bodies so there's no missed shots while changing lenses, and so you have one as a backup just in case). You could use the 70-200mm on the 5DII for the ceremony itself (assuming you're shooting from the back), then give that lens to your gf for long shots at the reception. For group/individual shots before the ceremony and during the reception, you'd use the 5DII + 16-35mm and the 7D + 50mm (and maybe something like the BlackRapid double strap to carry them). As a side note, the 70-200mm f/2.8 IS has a pretty good max magnification, and would work well for shots of the couple's hands and rings, etc.


If you absolutely must, sell the 17-55mm. For me, I'd plan on keeping that lens even after getting a FF body, for outings where I would take only one camera, and that one camera should be the 7D (sports, wildlife) but I want the flexibility of a general purpose zoom as well.


Good luck with your decision!


--John

7D and 10-22: $2500


5D2 and 16-35II: $4200


You say you want super-wide-angle, but the Tokina 11-16 is only a bit narrower than a 16-35 on a FF body. Only think rectilinear wider is the 14/2.8 - a fantastic lens, but a lot of money.


You say you don't need a macro, but you say you want to shoot weddings. You need a macro to get ring shots.


You say your gear is silly - why? Are your pictures silly? If so, can you really say that it's your gear that's holding you back?


You say your dream is a 5D2 and a 50/1.2 - I say "are you nuts?" The 50/1.2 has focus shift between wide-open and f/5.6, so you'd better REALLY learn that lens before you make it your bread and butter. Ever heard of the Holy Trinity? 50mm isn't part of it. You also say that you should be OK with a 16-35 and a 50, and I disagree. 16-35 and 85, maybe, but stopping at 50 is awful short.


I say fix one thing at a time, by making smart long-term purchases. I'd say first thing is a 16-35 as a backup to your 17-55, maybe a 17-40 if you were OK with it. Next is either an 85/1.8 or a 70-200 for you. Then I'd possibly replace your EF-S 60 Macro with the new EF 100mm IS Macro. Now you've got a full line-up that'll work on FF, and you could trade your 50D for a 5D2. Then I'd follow with a 24-70, and primes to suit your bread-and-butter shots, likely the 35/1.4, 85/1.2, maybe the 14/2.8. Somewhere along the way add another FF body, and start getting to a point where you have enough bodies for your primes, so you can retire your zooms (your wife will appreciate the hand-me-downs, trust me I know...).


Every so often, I revisit my wishlist, and pretend that I just won the lottery. I can tell you right now what I'd get and in what order. My first FF body is currently sitting after ten lens purchases (I am, unfortunately, buying for two photographers, but I don't that pushes FF down that much further.)


Remember, it's not about the gear, it's about the person behind the gear.

Another option I hear experts repeatedly say is to rent the gear and as the jobs start rolling in, reflect that in your price to shoot the weddings so that your clients end up paying for your new gear. I've heard this from Martin Bailey, Scott Bourne, and the folks on TWIP.

I shoot weddings with:


5DII & 24-70 f/2.8
50D & 70-200 f/2.8 IS


75% of the shots I take are with the 5DII combo. I bring 4 other lenes with me but they don't see much use. Like peety3 said, sometimes I'll break out the macro for ring shots.


I've recently been shooting with a woman who uses Nikon equivalent gear and always says how she wants to just shoot with the 24-70 f/2.8. It's a bread and butter lens for a wedding photographer.

Thank you everyone - I appreciate all your comments so far. I encourage more as well.


First off, let me say that there are two things I should have included in my gear list. One, is I own Kenko extension tubes (that 3-piece set that works with EF and EF-S lenses). I know that's not as good as a Macro, but to have a $350 lens for use with only a COUPLE shots for an entire wedding seems silly. Maybe I can use a tube with the 70-200 or with the 50mm. Also, I do have the BlackRapid double-strap. I don't really like it though, I must say. I saw the video and thought it was AWESOME, but it doesn't blow my "skirt" up like I thought it would.


Moving on... thanks for those of you who really NAILED IT TO ME. You know who you are ;) I know that the gear I have isn't too bad for weddings. My real problem is not gear at all, it's marketing! But... I'm just thinking that I'd really love to make the full-frame switch, and just trying to talk-out the best way to go about it (if I should at all for that matter). I realize the 5DMKII & 16-35II combo is about $4k - but I figure that I don't need one of my bodies and my Tokina 11-16mm if I had that combo. So right there, I'm almost half-way to the other combo. Also, the EF lenses can be used on EITHER body with different focal-length ranges, as a result of the crop. A Macro is so nice to have, but I've used the EF 100mm L IS USM and I LOVE it. I'd prefer to buy that one later on and get rid of my 60mm, especially because I hear Canon might remake my lens, but with IS. Ugh... it will be hard to sell then. Also, the EF 24-70 2.8 L USM I know is a legendary wedding lens, but my 17-55mm is the same (in fact a tad longer) on my 7D or 50D. I have also used the EF 14 2.8 and 85 1.2 that were mentioned, and I love those lenses. The 14 f/2.8 is probably a lens I'd never buy.... no real reason to, though it's nice. The 85 1.2 is DEAD SEXY and I'd love to own that, but it's a bit pricey. I have no experience with the 35 1.4, but I know the 24 1.4 II quite well and really like it! I'm just thinking that for a wedding, I want a FAST prime, wide angle zoom or mid-range zoom, and a 70-200 2.8 IS. Those three should do it shouldn't they?


I know all about renting lenses... I have rented almost every L-series lens Canon makes (except the 35 f/1.4 and the 500 f/4 and up). Renting is nice, but renting a lens here in France is hard as there aren't really places to do that. There is ONE place but it's increments of 7 days only and mail-order. I was thinking of starting a lens-rental business actually. Not sure about that yet, still feeling out the need.


Bottom line is I NEED BETTER MARKETING. That I know. I just want to make sure that when the jobs come in, I have the gear. I KNOW that the gear I have now will do me alright, I'm just trying to keep an eye out for the future. I'd love to hold out until the 5KMKIII comes out, but who the heck knows when that will be.


What was that about the EF 50mm f/1.2 L USM? I have used that lens for a few days and am in love with it! You think on a FF camera it's too long? I know I need wider (ie the 16-35) but the 50 would do great for other shots. And yes I need longer too (longer than the 50 on a 1.6x body in fact) and that's where my 70-200 comes into play.


Looking forward to hearing more from you all, thanks!


- Jordan

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Originally Posted by Jordan

Bottom line is I NEED BETTER MARKETING. That I know. I just want to make sure that when the jobs come in, I have the gear. I KNOW that the gear I have now will do me alright, I'm just trying to keep an eye out for the future. I'd love to hold out until the 5KMKIII comes out, but who the heck knows when that will be.


What was that about the EF 50mm f/1.2 L USM? I have used that lens for a few days and am in love with it! You think on a FF camera it's too long? I know I need wider (ie the 16-35) but the 50 would do great for other shots. And yes I need longer too (longer than the 50 on a 1.6x body in fact) and that's where my 70-200 comes into play.

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Once your improved marketing takes effect, you just need to make sure that when the jobs come in, you know the gear that you have very, very well. It's not how good your gear is, it's how good you can use your gear.


As far as the 50/1.2, I don't think it's too long...I think it's too short next to a 16-35. I've done small shoots with 16-35 and 85 (on crop bodies!) and was very happy; 16-35 and 50 wouldn't have been too useful. I've done larger shoots with 16-35 (on 1.3 crop) and 70-200 (on 1.6 crop) and had too much of a hole in the middle, but I was wishing for a 24-70 to fill the hole, not a 50 prime. Although I've never used the 50/1.2 or the 50/1.4, I've heard reports that the 50/1.2 has focus shift, doesn't have a flat focus plane, and is best only within the range of f/1.2 - 2.8 (see Bryan's review). To me, carrying a 50/1.2 and a 50/1.4 just for two different aperture ranges seems nuts.


Every time I pack for a shoot, I take at least a little time to say "what if that failed?" as I point to various things in my bag. If you're going to do weddings, you need to do those exercises on a regular basis. Realize that "camera bag shoulder strap" could be the failure item, causing your bag to feel the effects of gravity and your gear to feel the effects of a sudden stop. Do keep that in mind as you plan your shopping, remembering that if your (one and only) FF camera quits, you need to survive on crop gear.

I just want to bestraight forward with you, your post is too long, I didn't have time to read all of it.


So here what I would do if I were you. I'd keep the 7D, the 70-200 f/2.8L IS, and the two flashes. I'd sell everything else and get the 5D mark II and the 24-70 f/2.8L (you might have to put some more money in). That should cover your basis for serious wedding photography. When you make enough money that's when you can start looking for specialty lenses.


5D II + 24-70 f/2.8L + 430EX


7D + 70-200 f/2.8L + 430EX + flash bracket (without the bracket you'll definitely get redeyes)

I am going to second everything that peety3 said. 100%.

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Originally Posted by Sinh Nhut Nguyen

5D II + 24-70 f/2.8L + 430EX


7D + 70-200 f/2.8L + 430EX + flash bracket (without the bracket you'll definitely get redeyes)

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Agree. How's that sound Jordan?

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Originally Posted by peety3

As far as the 50/1.2, I don't think it's too long...I think it's too short next to a 16-35. I've done small shoots with 16-35 and 85 (on crop bodies!) and was very happy; 16-35 and 50 wouldn't have been too useful. I've done larger shoots with 16-35 (on 1.3 crop) and 70-200 (on 1.6 crop) and had too much of a hole in the middle, but I was wishing for a 24-70 to fill the hole, not a 50 prime. Although I've never used the 50/1.2 or the 50/1.4, I've heard reports that the 50/1.2 has focus shift, doesn't have a flat focus plane, and is best only within the range of f/1.2 - 2.8 (see Bryan's review). To me, carrying a 50/1.2 and a 50/1.4 just for two different aperture ranges seems nuts.

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35 is too close to 50mm to invest $1500 to. That is the main reason I went with a prime 85. I had a prime 35 that I love and to get a 50 didn't make much sense to me. The 16-35 is a great lens although I rarely find myself shooting at 2.8 so I think 17-40 shouldn't be ruled out. The 24-70 is oh so golden. It's another reason I don't have a 50mm prime.

Hmmm... well you know, I'm extremely inexperienced with my flashes. I barely know how to use them. I can never get the right light with them. I bought a book on how to use the flashes well, but it hasn't arrived (yeah... European customs!)


What do you mean bracketing? Like exposure bracketing where it takes multiple photos? Hmm...


Yeah I like the 24-70 f/2.8, but I feel like a new one will come out sometime soon - plus my 17-55 2.8 is basically the same thing when mounted on my 7D. Perhaps I could mount the 70-200 on the 5DMKII :)


Yeah, I do think I want to get rid of all my EF-S-like lenses (the Tokina 11-16, the EF-S 60mm Macro for sure) except for MAYBE the 17-55... but really it would be nice to be without that too. I wouldn't want to have ONLY those two lenses for weddings... because I really would like to have a landscape lens. the 16-35 or the 11-16 is great for that... but the 16-35 is better and more versatile. Perhaps that's the thing to do? Get rid of my 50D, Macro, ultra-wide angle and buy a 5DMKII with that? then save for the 16-35 later on?

A flash bracket mounts your flash higher atop your camera so as to eliminate the red-eye effect. It has nothing to do with multiple pictures.

Ahhh okay thanks. Was thinking of bracketed exposures, haha! Yeah I have a lot to learn about the flash!


; ) Jordan

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Originally Posted by Jordan

Hmmm... well you know, I'm extremely inexperienced with my flashes. I barely know how to use them. I can never get the right light with them. I bought a book on how to use the flashes well, but it hasn't arrived (yeah... European customs!)

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What exposure mode are you in? In P, the camera doesn't care about the ambient - it just tries to get a non-blurry picture. Full-auto is as bad or worse. Tv is tricky - ISO is set, and shutter speed is set, so it figures the aperture necessary to get the ambient correct, then figures out the flash power needed to get the flash light correct. I prefer Av - ISO is set, and aperture is set (so you know depth of field), so the camera figures out shutter speed to get the ambient correct, and figures out the flash power needed to get the flash light correct. Exposure compensation changes the ambient in Tv and Av, and flash exposure compensation changes the flash. Manual exposure mode gives you whatever ambient you've dialed in - maybe too little, maybe too much.


Keep in mind that Tv might result in an "impossible" shutter speed (the ambient isn't bright enough to get a proper exposure with the ISO you've set and the widest aperture of your lens), and Av can result in very long shutter speeds leading to camera shake blur (so you'll have to manage ISO and aperture carefully).


Also, read the Strobist blog's page on gelling your flashes - long story short, buy the Strobist gel pack from B&H or your local shop, slap a CTO gel on your flash if you're underneath incandescent, or a 1/2CTO and 1/2 +green if you're underneath fluorescent. Set your white balance to match the ambient light source, and you'll have much more accurate color during flash-lit shots.

Hmm... well about 85% of the time I shoot, I'm in Av mode. Then about 10% I'm in Tv and about 5% in Manual.


This is when I'm not using the Speedlite. When I have it attached, which is almost never, right now I just keep it in P so that it gives me the "good shots" (even then they aren't as good as they could be). I never use full-auto and never use P either except when the flash is mounted. I really want to get good with the flash but I just don't know enough about it right now :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jordan

Yeah I like the 24-70 f/2.8, but I feel like a new one will come out sometime soon - plus my 17-55 2.8 is basically the same thing when mounted on my 7D. Perhaps I could mount the 70-200 on the 5DMKII :)


Yeah, I do think I want to get rid of all my EF-S-like lenses (the Tokina 11-16, the EF-S 60mm Macro for sure) except for MAYBE the 17-55... but really it would be nice to be without that too. I wouldn't want to have ONLY those two lenses for weddings... because I really would like to have a landscape lens. the 16-35 or the 11-16 is great for that... but the 16-35 is better and more versatile. Perhaps that's the thing to do? Get rid of my 50D, Macro, ultra-wide angle and buy a 5DMKII with that? then save for the 16-35 later on?
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"basically the same thing" doesn't do the 24-70 justice. It has magic air inside it, or something.


Pick your poison - "I want the 5D Mark II", or "I want a landscape lens". I don't think there's a middle ground here, at least without waiting, doing this the "one piece at a time" way I suggested earlier, or going with cheaper lenses now. Honestly, I have to say throughout all of this, what's so amazing about the 5D2? I've used a 5D1 before, and it's just so sluggish next to a 7D or even a 40D (50D should be similar). You'd be fine with the 24-70 and 70-200 at weddings. I've seen wedding photographers shoot a wedding with nothing more than a 24-70.

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Originally Posted by Jordan

I...use P...when the flash is mounted.

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[:O] [^o)] [:#]


What's 'P' anyway?


What's probably messing you up in Av mode is one of the C.Fn's (it's C.Fn. I-7 on the 7D) - Flash Sync Speed in Av Mode. The default '0' setting is Auto, and with that setting and a wide aperture, if there's some ambient light the shutter speed will generally not be enough to freeze subject motion. If you set it to 1/250 - 1/60, it will restrict shutter speeds to that range which is sufficient to stop (people) movement in 'social' situations, and you won't get the flash-frozen moment with ambient-lit people movements superimposed. You can also force it to use 1/250 to pretty much stop all motion. With either of the non-auto settings, flash power will be adjusted to account for the aperture you select. Personally, I pretty much always apply some negative flash exposure compensation (usually -2/3 or so).

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Originally Posted by Jordan

Hmm... well about 85% of the time I shoot, I'm in Av mode. Then about 10% I'm in Tv and about 5% in Manual.


This is when I'm not using the Speedlite. When I have it attached, which is almost never, right now I just keep it in P so that it gives me the "good shots" (even then they aren't as good as they could be). I never use full-auto and never use P either except when the flash is mounted. I really want to get good with the flash but I just don't know enough about it right now :(
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Try Av. It gives you consistency with 85% of your normal shots, and if you have the camera set up for ambient exposures you'll be in the right ballpark for flash work. You might have to boost ISO or open up your aperture to keep the shutter speed fast enough to avoid blur, but I think you'll be a lot happier than with P.