Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

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06-04-2010, 12:32 PM
Chris White

Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?
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<p class="MsoNormal"]Here is a debate I have not seen yet. I realize these are
two different cameras and are more complementary than similar. I know there are
many 5D shooters in the forums; I do not know how many of you use the 1D Mark
IV.
<p class="MsoNormal"]My body now is a 50D, which I will be retaining for the foreseeable
future. My main subjects are my moving children and their sports, which the 50D
does well with and I know the 1D Mark IV will excel at. I have been saving
towards one since I first read Bryan’s review. I am looking for better low
light performance for things like my daughter’s dance recital.
<p class="MsoNormal"]Where I am running into a tempting detour is at the 5D Mark
II. I have enough to order it today with the current rebate being offered as
the gentle push. Moreover, I have seen the advice in the forums, and generally
agree with it, that the best equipment is that which is in your hands.
- <span style="font-family: Symbol;"]<span> Does anyone have an opinion on how the 1D Mark IV
  does in low light compared to the 5D Mark II?
- <span style="font-family: Symbol;"]<span><span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman';"]
  I know the 1D Mark IV has the better AF system
  in general, but how is it in low light?
- <span style="font-family: Symbol;"]<span><span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman';"]
  How do images from the 1.3 H sensor compare to
  the full frame, especially cropped?
<p class="MsoNormal"]I am getting by currently with the 50D, so I certainly could
wait to pull the trigger. I am looking for thoughts whether to get the 5D<span> Mark II, which would put me back to ground
zero towards the 1D Mark IV, or continue my original path and keep the 1D Mark
IV goal moving forward.
<p class="MsoNormal"]Thank you for your thoughts,
<p class="MsoNormal"]Chris
06-04-2010, 01:35 PM
Brendan7

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

If you needed a 1D Mark IV you wouldn't be asking this question.

Anyways, I suggest you buy the 7D and 5D2. The 7D does 95% of what the 1D4 does for $3000 less. Use that $3000 to buy the 5D2 and you have 2 great bodies -- a great action body and a superb portrait body. BTW, both ARE weather-sealed: I've used my 7D and a friend's 5D2 in snow and heavy rain. No problem.
06-04-2010, 01:53 PM
mikehillman89

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan7

If you needed a 1D Mark IV you wouldn't be asking this question.

Anyways, I suggest you buy the 7D and 5D2. The 7D does 95% of what the 1D4 does for $3000 less. Use that $3000 to buy the 5D2 and you have 2 great bodies -- a great action body and a superb portrait body. BTW, both ARE weather-sealed: I've used my 7D and a friend's 5D2 in snow and heavy rain. No problem.
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Seconded.
06-04-2010, 02:08 PM
Chris White

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Thanks for the opinions Brendan and Mike.

Need is best viewed in perspective. The argument could be made that I did not need the 50D. I did consider the 7D, but for me the upgrade was not worth the expense. I have the grip and extra batteries for the 50D. By the time I add those to a 7D it makes it more expensive in an apples-to-apples comparison. In my real world shooting, I do not feel that I would see enough of a difference to justify the cost of a minor upgrade to me. The 40D to 50D question some had when the 50D came out.

With that in mind, I looked at the 5D Mark II, as complementing the 50D, for studio work and darker, slower moving venues. I would be expanding my options more than duplicating them.

Chris
06-04-2010, 02:14 PM
Brendan7

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris White

but for me the upgrade was not worth the expense. I have the grip and extra batteries for the 50D. By the time I add those to a 7D it makes it more expensive in an apples-to-apples comparison. In my real world shooting, I do not feel that I would see enough of a difference to justify the cost of a minor upgrade to me.

I wouldn't call upgrading from a 50d to a 7d a minor upgrade. As peety3 said, "the 7d is light years ahead of the xxd bodies". Much better build, much better viewfinder, much better high ISO performance (1600 is actually USABLE!), much better AF, much better weather sealing, much better sharpness. Not a minor upgrade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris White

The 40D to 50D question some had when the 50D came out.

The 40D and 50D are almost the same camera. The 7D is nothing like the 40d or 50d. It's in a different class and costs $700 more for a reason.

However, I will notice you said it was a minor upgrade "for you" so I might think that you could sell your 50d and buy a 1D4. It might not be quite as good as a 5D2 at lowlight and high ISO photography, but it'll certainly handily outperform your 50d until a 5D2 (or 5D3) is a possible buy.

my 2¢
06-04-2010, 02:14 PM
mikehillman89

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Are you located in Canada?
06-04-2010, 02:15 PM
Brendan7

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

And BTW, the 7D DOES do 95% of what the 1D4 does. It's all about how important that 5% is to you (are you going to dump your camera in frozen seawater, do you need 10fps instead of 8fps, etc).
06-04-2010, 02:33 PM
Chris White

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikehillman89

Are you located in Canada?
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>

No, close though, Buffalo, NY
06-04-2010, 02:49 PM
Chris White

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan7

And BTW, the 7D DOES do 95% of what the 1D4 does. It's all about how important that 5% is to you (are you going to dump your camera in frozen seawater, do you need 10fps instead of 8fps, etc).
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>

Point taken Brendan. As nice as weather sealing is, I am either inside or out in good weather. In addition the 6+fps of my 50D was one of the things that was not worth the jump to the 7D, to me. I realize the difference to the 1D MkIV is $3000, and it is the 5% I am considering.

As it stands now I am always the father with the best camera. Sometimes, I have a better camera than the pro selling the photo package, like at my daughter's dance studio. I walked in to take some photos of the girls in their show costumes with my 50D/24-70 L and the hired-by-the-studio pro had a T1i/tamron. I realize good images can be made from this combination, but until I am using a 1 series I think the guy selling the photos should have gear at or better than mine. BTW, I made a quick photo shop image of my daughter and her friend with the group in between and printed a 8x10 for each of the girls and the quality of mine is better than his. And that is not just my opinion, it is my daughter's friends mother's.

Chris
06-04-2010, 03:00 PM
Brendan7

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris White

I realize the difference to the 1D MkIV is $3000, and it is the 5% I am considering.

That's a heck of a lot of premium for 2fps and a bulkier body. Also remember, you could buy some serious glass for $3000!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris White

As nice as weather sealing is, I am either inside or out in good weather. In addition the 6+fps of my 50D was one of the things that was not worth the jump to the 7D, to me.

I just mentioned weather sealing b/c many people buy 1D bodies for ruggedness. I just mentioned that the xD bodies share some of those qualities. If you want the 1D4, go for it! It's a superb camera and when you're debating between the 5D2, 1D4 and 7D you just can't go wrong. But I can tell you for a fact that the 7D is a major step up from the 50d. Nate upgraded his 40d to a 7D, maybe he could explain. Or peety3. Where are you??? (owns a 1D3, a 40d and several 7Ds).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris White

walked in to take some photos of the girls in their show costumes with my 50D/24-70 L and the hired-by-the-studio pro had a T1i/tamron.

Wow. That's never happened to me. We hired a pro before I got a DSLR and he brought two Nikon D3X bodies with adjoining expensive nikkor lenses.
06-04-2010, 04:07 PM
crosbyharbison

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

The quality of the 1D series isunsurpassed. The viewfinder, thecompact flashdoor, the battery, the grip, everything is amazing about it. I go for that. Besides, everyone has a 5d or 7d these days; don't you want to feel special?
06-04-2010, 04:10 PM
Keith B

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

I say get the 5DmkII and hang onto the 50D.

The 5DII will work really well, especially with that 24-70. It's AF isn't the greatest but once you are use to it's slight short comings you won't really notice them. The frames per second blow but that isn't what this camera is made for.

The upgrade from a 40D (probably the 50D too) to the 7D is huge. The AF system is way more sophisticated. If you shoot in Servo a lot I'd recommend the 7D even from the 50D. Even the jump from 6+ frames to 8 is huge. I didn't think it would be that big of a difference, but it is.
06-04-2010, 04:16 PM
Chris White

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan7

That's a heck of a lot of premium for 2fps and a bulkier body. Also remember, you could buy some serious glass for $3000!!!

What can I say, I like bulk. My grip never leaves the 50D. I do have some nice glass, but we all always want more...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan7

I just mentioned weather sealing b/c many people buy 1D bodies for ruggedness. I just mentioned that the xD bodies share some of those qualities. If you want the 1D4, go for it! It's a superb camera and when you're debating between the 5D2, 1D4 and 7D you just can't go wrong. But I can tell you for a fact that the 7D is a major step up from the 50d. Nate upgraded his 40d to a 7D, maybe he could explain. Or peety3. Where are you??? (owns a 1D3, a 40d and several 7Ds).

I must admit the ruggedness is one of the things that appeals to me. I further realize that I am sifting through some great camera bodies. I think that the 50D to the 7D is like the 40D to 50D upgrade, nice but not as great a step as the 40D to the 7D. The 7D takes the 50D and raises the bar still higher. I remember when I got my 50D there was question if the price justified the upgrade from the 40D. I am looking for their thoughts as well. It is a work day, I was just lucky enough to get off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan7

Wow. That's never happened to me. We hired a pro before I got a DSLR and he brought two Nikon D3X bodies with adjoining expensive nikkor lenses.

I was certainly surprised. This was not just a family friend, it was a legitimate business. Needless to say, I killed my order. And now that I have seen his pictures and mine -- 'good choice'. Which makes a point I may not have emphasized enough, I take great images with what I currently have. I am just mulling around if they could be better and at what cost. Photography has once again become my vice/addiction. It could be much worse. ;)

Chris
06-04-2010, 04:23 PM
Chris White

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

One other thought; this is in all honesty a "want" more than "need" situation. Similar to neuro's "wallet full of $100 bills" thread.

What can I say, the .02% intrest is less compelling than new gear.
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06-04-2010, 04:27 PM
Keith B

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Want is an awful thing. You should just get what you want then. Otherwise you will never really be happy with what you settle for. You will always have that itch in the back of your mind.
06-04-2010, 04:37 PM
Chris White

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith B

Want is an awful thing.

That is true, Kieth. I am still sorting though mine. Another option is to continue saving towards the 1D Mark IV and by the time I get there I can get the 5D Mark III and sell the 50D. By the time I can afford both, there could be a 5D III, not that I am waiting for one. I do realize that the best gear is what you have now.

Chris
06-04-2010, 04:40 PM
Chris White

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosbyharbison

don't you want to feel special?

Who doesn't?

I know these are both great options, that is why I am looking for experienced advice. I doubt anyone with either body regrets having purchased it.

Chris
06-04-2010, 04:59 PM
Brendan7

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris White

I think that the 50D to the 7D is like the 40D to 50D upgrade, nice but not as great a step as the 40D to the 7D.

That's wrong. The 40d and 50d are "sister cameras". Upgrading from 40d to 50d is like upgrading from a 2009 Honda Civic to a 2010 Honda Civic. Upgrading from a 50d to a 7D is like upgrading from a 2009 Honda Civic to a 2010 V8 Shelby GT500. I guess that would make the 1D4 a BMW 7 series.

The 7D is part of a whole different dang line. It is far and away better than the 50d. I'll explain why:

1. ISO 1600 on the 7D looks like ISO 800 on the 50D.

2. 6fps vs 8fps. 7D has larger buffer of larger images.

3. Weather-sealed, better ergonomics.

4. AF is SO MUCH BETTER! the 19pt crosstype really does work excellently.

5. Video mode.

6. The 7D is considered by some to be Canon's best wildlife body.

7. Where's peety3 to tell us just how good it really is?

I agree with you Chris that it isn't based on need. same old same old [|-)]

I think that buying a 5D2 and 7D not only gives you better overall picture quality, you have two superb bodies that complement each other very well. You will NEVER be limited by your gear with those two bad boys. And don't forget the benefit of having two bodies!!! I'd say that'd be the best way to go -- if you have the $.
06-04-2010, 05:14 PM
Keith B

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan7

[I think that buying a 5D2 and 7D not only gives you better overall picture quality, you have two superb bodies that complement each other very well. You will NEVER be limited by your gear with those two bad boys. And don't forget the benefit of having two bodies!!! I'd say that'd be the best way to go -- if you have the $.

5DmkII to 7D: "You complete me."

7D to 5DmkII: "You had me at hello."

Canon said: "Show Me the Money!"
06-04-2010, 05:43 PM
Mark Elberson

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith B

5DmkII to 7D: "You complete me."

7D to 5DmkII: "You had me at hello."

Canon said: "Show Me the Money!"

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!
06-04-2010, 05:45 PM
Chris White

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Brendan, please do not think I am selling the 7D short. to quote Bryan the 7D is:

"best APS-C sensor-sized DSLR Canon has ever produced"

Although I may come to embrace it, video is not a priority for me. I get very usable images at 1600 ISO, so an improvement -- which all three will do -- would be an asset. I cannot speak to the ergonomics, other than to say I am very pleased with my gripped 50D. I am one who wants the grip, so my first purchase for the 7D (5D also) would be a grip and second battery, which chips a little into the $3000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan7

I agree with you Chris that it isn't based on need. same old same old [img]/emoticons/emotion-20.gif[/img]

The best take-away is that I can even entertain these thoughts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith B

5DmkII to 7D: "You complete me."

7D to 5DmkII: "You had me at hello."

Canon said: "Show Me the Money!"

How happy do you think the 5D Mark II and the 1D Mark IV would be together??

Just wondering...
06-04-2010, 05:58 PM
Keith B

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris White

How happy do you think the 5D Mark II and the 1D Mark IV would be together??

Just wondering...

I don't know never saw that movie. But I suspect pretty well. Of course Canon will expect you to show them a lot more money.

5DmkII and 7D playing in my Pelican case daily. Dinner (meat and potatoes) and a show.
06-04-2010, 06:04 PM
Chris White

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris White

How happy do you think the 5D Mark II and the 1D Mark IV would be together??

Just wondering...
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>

I don't know never saw that movie. But I suspect pretty well. Of course Canon will expect you to show them a lot more money.

5DmkII and 7D playing in my Pelican case daily. Dinner (meat and potatoes) and a show.
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>

Who does not want money from me these days?

Do you ever try to use your 5DmkII for slower action, such as a school play?
06-04-2010, 06:15 PM
Jon Ruyle

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Chris-

I faced a similar choice long ago- but it was between the 1DIIN and the 5D (original). There was no 7D option back then, of course.

I went with the 1DIIN, and while I'm not exactly sorry I got it (especially now that I have a 5DII and the 1DIIN compliments it far better than a 5D would), I don't think I made the correct choice. I wanted mostly to take macro pictures and pictures of the kids. I reasoned that the kids move quickly and that I needed the best autofocus I could get. In my case, however, it turned out that most of my best pictures were of still kids (portraits) rather than action photos. In addition, I took a lot of pictures in low light, and the 5DII would have given me better high ISO performance.

As to your specific questions:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris White

Does anyone have an opinion on how the 1D Mark IV
does in low light compared to the 5D Mark II?

Plenty of people do. Instead of an opinion, though, I'll give you some numbers. DXOMark gives the 5DII a score of 1815 and the 1DIV a score of 1320. Basically this means (if you believe the folks at DXOMark, and I haven't met anyone who doesn't) that the 5DII sensor at ISO1815 has about as much noise as the 1DIV sensor at ISO1320 (in other words, it will give you the same image in 2/3 the light). The 5DII probably has more pattern noise at very high ISO (or in very dark areas at moderately high ISO). 5DII pattern noise is an issue for some, but hasn't been a big deal for me under ISO 6400.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris White

<span style="font-family: Symbol;"]<span><span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman';"]
I know the 1D Mark IV has the better AF system
in general, but how is it in low light?

The 1DIV af will work better in low light. It is rated to work in 1/2 stop lower light, and has more af points (which makes it easier for one to lock on).

This said, I've been very happy with the 5DII af performance in low light (I was not happy with how the 1DIIN worked in low light... it is rated a full stop worse in this regard than the 1DIV, though, with the 5DII halfway between the two)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris White

<span style="font-family: Symbol;"]<span><span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman';"]
How do images from the 1.3 H sensor compare to
the full frame, especially cropped?

The effect of sensor size on image quality has been long and bitterly debated on this site and elsewhere (maybe not so bitterly, but it sounds dramatic so what the heck). My opinion based on experience using the 1DIIN and the 5DII is that the larger sensor gives significantly better image quality. Either will give better IQ than the 50D. We all know from experience how much impact cropping has on IQ. (Of course, it isn't quite that simple: there are other differences besides sensor size. For one thing, the 1DIV has a higher pixel density than the 5DII).

Basically, IMO, it just comes down to better low light performance and thinner DOF with the full frame camera, vs. a better tracking autofocus on the 1DIV. (You haven't mentioned desire for wide angle performance, but both the 7D and 5DII (and your 50D for that matter) have the edge here over the 1DIV)

I've never used the 1DIV, but I would definitely choose the 5DII for non-moving subjects. I would choose the 1DIV for sports or other photography involving fast moving objects.

In your position, I would buy a 5DII first, then a 7D (instead of a 1DIV). That way you get the absolute best canon has to offer for non moving subjects, and something very very good for moving subjects. And the combination is far more versatile than the 1DIV alone.

Best of luck.
06-04-2010, 06:20 PM
Keith B

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris White

Do you ever try to use your 5DmkII for slower action, such as a school play?

I use my 5DII for 90% of what I do. The 7D is a second/backup/sports camera. My new favorite thing with events (when I can move around freely anyway) is 5DII/35 1.4L and 7D/85 1.2L.

I've shot my son's Jazz band concerts with 5DII. That would be similar to school play it does really well, although the outer AF points will search a bit. Usually you are far enough away that the center point and recompose will work well enough.The 70-200 2.8 IS left a little something (faster aperture) to be desired. I wish I had got to shoot one with the 85 1.2II this year but I'll have to wait until next year.
06-04-2010, 07:00 PM
Alan

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikehillman89

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan7

If you needed a 1D Mark IV you wouldn't be asking this question.

Anyways, I suggest you buy the 7D and 5D2. The 7D does 95% of what the 1D4 does for $3000 less. Use that $3000 to buy the 5D2 and you have 2 great bodies -- a great action body and a superb portrait body. BTW, both ARE weather-sealed: I've used my 7D and a friend's 5D2 in snow and heavy rain. No problem.
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Seconded.
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>

I'm coming late to this party, but as an owner of the 7D and 5D2.....

Thirded...[:)]

Is there such a word?
06-04-2010, 09:43 PM
mikehillman89

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

I'm coming late to this party, but as an owner of the 7D and 5D2.....

Thirded...[img]/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]

Is there such a word?
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>

There is now apparently... Wow so my BB has been off the hook all day today! I'm gone for a few hours and all these posts happen that I want to reply to!!! For all you Canadian folks out there get a 7D now for only $1850 with a grip and extra battery!
06-05-2010, 12:33 AM
Chris White

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?
Alan thanks for thirding, according to the spell check it is not a word, but I will accept it.

Jon, thank you for your real world experience and your point by point reply.

I did not put a poll up but if I had I think the order of recommendation thus far would be:
1. 5DII
2. 7D
3. 1DIV
I thought the 1DIV would be higher. I do know that the people with 5DII's always rave about them. The 7D seems equally loved. I do see the logic in the 5DII and 7D combo. I could add grips and extra batteries and still have a good deposit towards another L lens for the 1DIV cost. And selling the 50D would pretty much close any remaining glass deficit. On the other hand, junior is already eying up the 50D.

I am going to monitor this thread through the weekend as I weigh the options. I am leaning towards the 5DII right now, which is what I was thinking when I started this thread. Right now the 5DII is $400 less than a year ago and even if a 5DIII came out next month, it would most likely be priced back at the original 5DII price or higher. Only Canon and the Good Lord know that plan. Moreover the 5DII would still be a great camera and I could have it in my hands in time to shoot my daughter's dance recital, not insignificant to me.

Chris
06-05-2010, 12:39 AM
Chris White

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Jon, also, what did you use for your butterfly photos in the what did you shoot this week forum? I am guessing the 5DII, but what lens? They are great! It is the kind of thing I am looking to do with my kids. When I look back at the images I have of them from my 50D, I have to say what ever I do going forward, that body is worth every nickel I paid for it.

Chris
06-05-2010, 01:29 AM
Jon Ruyle

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Correct, all three were shot with the 5DII. The first two were shot with the 100mm macro (non-IS), both at f/8 and
ISO800. The other was done with the 24-105 f/4, 105mm @ f/5, ISO 200.

I know how you feel about the 50D... it's a good feeling when a piece of equipment has been used enough that one thinks it is already worth the price. After that the rest is gravy :)
06-05-2010, 01:55 AM
Steven23

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Its not about the gear or glass, daddy just wants some nice fkin toys to play with, sell the kid(s), house, tell the wife a second job is needed, "I needz more toys" ^_-
06-05-2010, 02:22 AM
crosbyharbison

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

I would save up and wait for the 1Ds IV (probably september). It will be the best of everything... Your 50d is fine until then.
06-05-2010, 08:58 AM
Brendan7

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosbyharbison

I would save up and wait for the 1Ds IV (probably september). It will be the best of everything... Your 50d is fine until then.

A 1Ds body for action? I don't know 'bout that. Especially for $8000. And then he needs a bunch of new lenses!
06-05-2010, 12:27 PM
Jon Ruyle

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan7

A 1Ds body for action?

Oh, I don't know. It might do oaky. [;)]

But yeah, a 1Ds is not cheap.
06-05-2010, 01:05 PM
Keith B

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Ruyle

But yeah, a 1Ds is not cheap.

What does a kidney go for these days?
06-05-2010, 01:11 PM
crosbyharbison

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan7

A 1Ds body for action? I don't know 'bout that. Especially for $8000. And then he needs a bunch of new lenses!

Autofocus is the same as the 1D, 5fps isn't bad at all, much better than the 5D for action...
06-05-2010, 01:15 PM
HiFiGuy1

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

This is a very interesting thread to me. I have been thinking for a while that what I would like is basically a 7D built like a 1 series with the integrated grip. I have held/played with a 1D Mk. II, and really like it. All the Canon bodies I have held with grips attached, including a 5D, a 40D and I think a 30D, left something to be desired in the solidity and of-a-piece feeling departments. Even the shape of the combo in hand is much less agreeable than that of the 1 series.

I really like the FOV of my 40D because I love shooting wildlife/sports/airshows, etc., but I would also like to have the DOF and overall, undefinable "rightness" of the images I've seen shot with 5D, 5DII and 1DsIII bodies. I can't really explain how, but I can almost always pick those shots out of a group, and they just look, again, "right". So that leads me to wonder if the APS-H will be the best of both worlds, or a total compromise that doesn't excel at either. I have seen both comments before. The perspective could be that the APS-H improves available DOF over the APS-C and improves FOVCF over FF, or the argument could also be framed that APS-H has neither the FOVCF of APS-C nor the DOF of FF. Kind of a glass half full/half empty discussion, I guess.

It is a good question for Peety3, since I think he has used them all (FF, APS-H, APS-C) extensively. I see that he hasn't chimed in here yet. Oh Peety3, where are you?
06-05-2010, 01:23 PM
HiFiGuy1

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

The rub lies in the FOVCF. If you are doing action sports with an APS-C body, let's say a 7d, and using a 135mm/f2.0 for perfect framing, you'd need a 200mm/f2.0 on the 1DsIII or eventual 1DsIV for the same performance. So now you have spent roughly $13,000 to capture the similar shot as the APS-C combo which costs about $3000 including a grip.

I guess because of the DOF advantage, you could get away with a 200mm/f2.8 on the FF, which would reduce the expenditure on that combo to only about $9000. Much cheaper. [:P]
06-05-2010, 01:39 PM
Jon Ruyle

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiFiGuy1

I guess because of the DOF advantage, you could get away with a 200mm/f2.8 on the FF

Yes, if by performance you mean framing and DOF. But then, the 200mm f/2.8 has much better IQ wide open than the cropped 135 f/2. So with the 1DsIII you're getting a lens with better IQ for less money.

Once you have the body, that is. I'm not suggesting that one should buy a 1Ds to save $$$. Besides, if you sell one kidney to get the 1DsIII, you're kind of stuck when the 1DsIV comes out.
06-05-2010, 03:36 PM
HiFiGuy1

Re: Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

Just so we're clear, I was making the comparison between comparable effective FOVCF. In that case, the 135mm+APS-C = 216mm EFL and 200mm + FF = 200mm EFL. That is the closest I could come in an indoor/outdoor sports lens/body combo for the real world. So actually, you'd be slightly cropping the FF image, not the APS-C, in order to have the same framing with the same distance from subject. The uncropped 18MP 7D might even have a slight resolution advantage over the mildly cropped 21MP 1DsIII.

My assumption also was that the 135mm f/2 was an exceptional lens optically, and comparable to the 200/2.8 if not exactly as good as the supernatural 200/2.

Obviously if performance includes frame rate, the 7D leaves the 1Ds in the dust.

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