Portrait Photography - My Frustration Level is Peaking!

Hi All -

All I wanted to do was take some nice photos of family members and friends! I didn't expect anything major professional looking to come out of it, just somenice head shots and some group shots of the grandkids! Some definite keepers!

So far, my main practice subject has been my daughter (bless her heart for her patience with me). We don't get to do this often so mostly when we do, I feel like I'm starting from scratch on the learning curve! My photos are horrendous! Too much light, not enough light, too much shadow!One light fires, all lights fire ...no lights fire! ERRRR!! I haven't even attempted photos of the grandkids yet ...by the time I get things going in the right direction, they'd be ready for a nap!

I am going to try another attempt at this possibly tonight and hopefully this upcoming weekend. I have to be making this much harder than it needs to be!

My question is ...if I cannot get any decent shots at this possible final attempt, how much would someone here charge for assisting me thru emails to get me somewhat on the right track with this? Anyone interested?? If so, please PM me.


Otherwise, all portrait taking gear listed on my profile will be going up for sale soon. [:(] I know one of my main problems is very cramped quarters to do this in but I'm also getting ready to accept that I'm just not cut out for this!

Denise

Hey Denise

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Originally Posted by ddt0725

All I wanted to do was take some nice photos of family members and friends!

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Try it at a level you do understand. If I'm not mistaken and if I read your post correctly I get the feeling that the major issue is with the multiple flash set-up? In other words: studio portraits or strobism stuff?


Well you know who the guys are that know all about this sort of stuff. However they don't teach you experience which I believe to be the major factor in this sort of stuff.


If I were you (and I absolutely suck in any shot with flashes involved) I would try to start from the basics. Learn how to use 1 on-camera flash properly. See what bouncing does etc etc. At least that's what I'm going to do when my grey cards and flash gels arrive tomorrow [;)] I'm going to make a fresh start.


If you insist on having a studio set-up, you might have a spare room? Where you can set-up something and try some shots there while you further adjust your set-up.


If you're also looking to do portraits without using a flash, I think I can be of some help...but I'm not cheap[:P]

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Originally Posted by ddt0725

My question is ...if I cannot get any decent shots at this possible final attempt, how much would someone here charge for assisting me thru emails to get me somewhat on the right track with this? Anyone interested?? If so, please PM me.

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If you tell me what you want to achieve, I could join the learning experience and share experience with you? I have a ring flash and a 430 flash so I could do some off-camera flashing. Let me know what you think. We could work free of charge together.

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Originally Posted by ddt0725

Otherwise, all portrait taking gear listed on my profile will be going up for sale soon. [img]/emoticons/emotion-6.gif[/img] I know one of my main problems is very cramped quarters to do this in but I'm also getting ready to accept that I'm just not cut out for this!

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Don't give up too soon, I know you can do it! This might lead us to some very interesting portrait photography lessons [A]

Oh and keeping a log with all settings and distances(perhaps situation-sketches) might help if you had one good shot and you'd want to duplicate it in another setting at another time.


Or if you'd like to continue working on a set-up you had to remove for other reasons.


Anyway: I'm in for some learning! (At least the free of charge part [;)])

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Originally Posted by Sheiky

If I were you (and I absolutely suck in any shot with flashes involved) I would try to start from the basics. Learn how to use 1 on-camera flash properly.

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I think that is what I need to do ...start over SLOWLY and build from there!

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Originally Posted by Sheiky

If you tell me what you want to achieve, I could join the learning experience and share experience with you? I have a ring flash and a 430 flash so I could do some off-camera flashing. Let me know what you think. We could work free of charge together.

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That would be great! I will see how things turn out over the weekend and see if we can compare notes :)

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Originally Posted by Sheiky

Don't give up too soon, I know you can do it! This might lead us to some very interesting portrait photography lessons

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Thanks, Jan! Much appreciated! I won't throw in the towel (or softbox) just yet ...but we'll see!

Denise

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Originally Posted by Sheiky

Oh and keeping a log with all settings and distances(perhaps situation-sketches) might help if you had one good shot and you'd want to duplicate it in another setting at another time.

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You think just like my daughter ...she has been taking some notes for me and some photos with her point and shoot of the various set-ups!

Iwas working on turning my semi finished basement from an movie viewing/entertainment room to a mini studio so I can leave things set-up rather than packing up all the time. But stopped once I saw how badly this was all going!

Denise

Well I'll offer my take.


I went through a several different setups but I won't bore you with all that. The best thing you can do is find a (keep it) simple light that makes you happy and stick with it. It sounds like for what you are shooting you want a nice soft flattering light. Large umbrellas are simple, easy to use and just a nice light. Get two, one for a key and one for a fill. Get them as close to you subjects as you can with out them being in the frame so use them powered down. Figure out the ratios that you like best between the Key and Fill(2to1, 3to1 etc.). That should only take you a few shots and stick with it. If you use E-TTL you can set the ratios and the camera will figure out the specifics. Try to emulate natural light get your key light up high and angle downward like sunlight or room lights usually are (this will help get light on the hair to reduce the need for a hair light) and your fill light a little lower and from the direction of the camera. If you are using an on camera flash as master, that will work perfect as a fill. When you set ratios make sure the first number is one and the second is higher.

Jan had some terrific advice. Start with what you know. If you need to capture the moment then use on-camear E-TTL with bounce. At least you'll likely get what you need that way. I understand that you want to learn how to use off-camera flash. Like Jan said, start with one flash. See what it can and cannot do. Each light in a setup has a specific task (Key, Fill, Separation, Background, etc). I know the temptation is to use them all but sometimes one or two will do. Try using one umbrella/softbox and see what it does for you. Move it around and see how that affects the light and shadows. Also, the way you light one person may not, and probably will not, light two or more people equally well. Often times in order to evenly light more than one person you'll need to move the lights back a bit so that the falloff is not so extreme.


People hate waiting to have their picture taken. Get everything setup and ready and then tell your subject(s) that you are ready to go. If you can't get a test subject to tweak your settings use a stuffed animal or even a chair. Use anything to get at least close. Here's the hard part. If you are close but not right on you need to know what to change to get it right. The best way (if not the only way) to do that is through experience. Shoot, shoot, shoot and shoot some more.


If this were easy then everyone would take studio quality pictures of their family instead of snapshots. Be patent and you'll get there. It just takes time. Learn from your mistakes and embrace your sucesses :-)

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Originally Posted by Keith B

Try to emulate natural light get your key light up high and angle downward like sunlight or room lights usually are (this will help get light on the hair to reduce the need for a hair light) and your fill light a little lower and from the direction of the camera.

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Great advice

Also to add to my post; There is nothing wrong with one light and bumping ISO to work as a fill. Just let the key ad a nice highlight.

I feel your pain and not very comfortable doing a whole lot of off camera stuff when taking pictures; however, my simple little set upyields pictures that I am happy with for shots of the kids. That way I can justify keeping some of my equipment and not throw in the towel completely. Keep in mind, I am by no means good at this, just sharing what works for me since we have similar equipment, so take what I have with a grain of salt.


I set up my white backdrop (white satin or fleece material purchased from hobby lobby), then set up my two flashes with a 60 inch umbrella and a 53 inch (i think) I position them about a 45 degree angle from where I plan on sitting or standing to catch the boys. I then sent the flashes to 1/2 power and 1/4 power. Something around there. I have the flash stands set as high as they will go in the room, usually around 8ft as the ceilings are around 9 ft and the umbrella is scraping on the ceiling and then just angle them downward pointing at where I believe the general area the boys will be standing. I usually have my camera set at f6.3 and 1/100th (boys wiggle a ton so I don't want something too slow). Sit them down and fire away. Now, the background doesn't get blown out at all, so I have to do a little bit in PP to get the background a solid white, but itturns out okay for me.


I am only going to leave the pictures up for a day or so, but hopefully that helps out a little. Yes, those are animal stick ontattoos. Made for an interesting picture day to say the least.


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And remember--it may be slow and arduous, but you can always practice on yourself!


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4130/...99f532f5_z.jpg

Sean has a great point! Since seeing his stuff, I have done the same and it has helped a bunch. Haven't quite made it out into the streets though. [;)]

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Originally Posted by Jayson

Haven't quite made it out into the streets though.

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If you do ply your trade in the middle of the streets, though, you'd better be packin' like the GTA thug seen above.

Wow, this is the first time the sites been working at the same time I'm able to go on it in quite awhile! So, first off I want to apologize for not responding to all ofthe comments above sooner! Second, I want to thank everyone for all of the suggestions you have given me! I am going to try each and every one of them eventually I should get this right!

It's late and my daughter and I just finished a few hours (yes, hours!) of shooting! I did start slow with just one light w/ a softbox high above her. Shadows were bad so I added another on a stand which helpedalot but for the life of me I could not get rid of the shadow on her neck from her chin no matter where I put the second light! Nor could I get anything even half as nice as the boys pictures above! My white background turned very gray.

She won't allow me to post any photos of her but if my other daughter comes over this weekend and we get a chance to do some shooting, I'll post a few of the results of those.

Thank you so much again ...I am very appreciative!

Denise

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Originally Posted by Jayson

I set up my white backdrop (white satin or fleece material purchased from hobby lobby), then set up my two flashes with a 60 inch umbrella and a 53 inch (i think) I position them about a 45 degree angle from where I plan on sitting or standing to catch the boys. I then sent the flashes to 1/2 power and 1/4 power. Something around there. I have the flash stands set as high as they will go in the room, usually around 8ft as the ceilings are around 9 ft and the umbrella is scraping on the ceiling and then just angle them downward pointing at where I believe the general area the boys will be standing. I usually have my camera set at f6.3 and 1/100th (boys wiggle a ton so I don't want something too slow). Sit them down and fire away. Now, the background doesn't get blown out at all, so I have to do a little bit in PP to get the background a solid white, but itturns out okay for me.

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Hi Jayson -

I did get to see your boys photos before the site went down but I couldn't not comment because I was at work. The photos were fantastic and I would give anything to end up with something even 1/2 that good!

I do have one umbrella (not very large) but I am thinking maybe I should get another ..OMG! There I go, thinking of buying more when I can't even get what I have to work for me! [:P]

Thanks so much though for your very detailed suggestions and I am going to try and set up things very similar.

Denise


BTW - My grandson has stick-on tattoos also and he loves them!

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Originally Posted by Jayson

Sean has a great point! Since seeing his stuff, I have done the same and it has helped a bunch. Haven't quite made it out into the streets though.

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I don't think I'm ready to take it to the street ...I don't think my neighbors are ready for it either! [:O] But it would sure give the retired busy body next door something new to talk about!

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Originally Posted by Mark Elberson

Jan had some terrific advice. Start with what you know. If you need to capture the moment then use on-camear E-TTL with bounce. At least you'll likely get what you need that way. I understand that you want to learn how to use off-camera flash. Like Jan said, start with one flash. See what it can and cannot do. Each light in a setup has a specific task (Key, Fill, Separation, Background, etc). I know the temptation is to use them all but sometimes one or two will do. Try using one umbrella/softbox and see what it does for you. Move it around and see how that affects the light and shadows.

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Yep, I think what happened was I started doing more than I was ready for and ended up worse off than when I started months ago! Instead of moving forward slowly, I took a giant leap and ended up with a mess!

Tonight I started with the one softbox and then added a light and tomorrow night am going to work on that again to figure out how to eliminate shadows I don't want and maybe figuring out how to get some that I do want for certain affects.

Thanks so much for your help, Mark!

Denise

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Originally Posted by Keith B

It sounds like for what you are shooting you want a nice soft flattering light.

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Exactly! Eventually, I was hoping to learn how to get shadow where I want it like on one side of the face rather than where I DON'T want it like on the backdrop or a shadow of her chin on her neck!

We usually only get a chance to do this when it's late at night but this weekend I am hoping to do it during the day to use more of the natural light but tonight I did use your advice and put the stand with the softbox much closer to her than I was doing before and it did work out much better. Thanks, Keith

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Originally Posted by Sean Setters

And remember--it may be slow and arduous, but you can always practice on yourself!

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I'm so bad ...I want everyone to let me take their picture but then I never want my own taken!! If I was as good at this as you are Sean, I would proudly stand in my street and snap away ...while all my neighbors peer thru their blinds!

Denise,


One thing you might try is to buy a big teddy bear. I use one to test a set up all the time. It sits very still and doesn't get impatient if I'm not happy and spend time fiddling around. When you can see the fur texture is exposed nicely and is quite sharp then you're close.

Denise,


Without seeing samples it's hard to give advice. So I will start at the basics of portrait lighting. My mentor suggested to me once that I study paintings of Rembrant for lighting technique. I saw right off that his paintings were different for male and female. For a male the lighting came from one side and a shadow was cast from the nose on the opposite side of the face. Just enough lighting would spill over to that side and create a small triangular shape of light on the cheek just below the eye. For females they were often lit up more from the front and the shape of light would be more like a butterfly spanning across both cheeks evenly. If you google Rembrant you will see what I mean. To think that he did this 400 years ago with candle light shows the pure genius that we follow today. I'm no expert but here are a couple of samples that illustrate this technique.


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Denise, found this video a while back that may give you some ideas...


Portrait Single Light


Hope your trek gets better!

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Originally Posted by deltasun

Denise, found this video a while back that may give you some ideas...


Portrait Single Light

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Thanks for the link ...it was cool to actually see the different effects from the lighting.

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Originally Posted by deltasun

Hope your trek gets better!

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Well, tonight we took a number of shots again and ...woohoo!! It wentMUCH better! Everything worked right off the bat and no unwanted shadows anywhere!!Things aren't as good as many I've seen posted here but at least I feel like I'm on the right track! I used my Lumodi Beauty Dish this time with a diffuser sock over itand I didn't have it up as high on the stand as I didthe softbox last night. Just slightly higher than her. That is probably what helped with eliminating the chin shadow on her neck. I also used another speedlight on a stand to her left.

I wish she would let me post pics! [:(]

Thanks so much to everyone for all there suggestions! Using a combination of all of them has really helped me tremendously!

Denise

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Originally Posted by ddt0725

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Originally Posted by Keith B

It sounds like for what you are shooting you want a nice soft flattering light.

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Exactly! Eventually, I was hoping to learn how to get shadow where I want it like on one side of the face rather than where I DON'T want it like on the backdrop or a shadow of her chin on her neck!

We usually only get a chance to do this when it's late at night but this weekend I am hoping to do it during the day to use more of the natural light but tonight I did use your advice and put the stand with the softbox much closer to her than I was doing before and it did work out much better. Thanks, Keith

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Glad I could help.