Canon 1D v Canon 7D

Hi,


Can anybody help me with a dilemma I'm having?


I am about to upgrade from my Canon 40D. Please bear in mind that I shoot wildlife and therefore the crop factorwill come into play.


My two options to upgrade to(both costing approximately the same) are as follows:


Canon 1D mark4 and my current 300L F4 lens


Pros and cons: Smaller crop factor. Better image quality (can I crop tighter?). Autofocus will work on the lens with a 2x converter. Less noise, so therefore faster shutter speeds


Canon 7D and a new 300L F2.8 lens


Pros and cons


Faster autofocus with the combination??? Larger crop factor. Better quality images with the lens, (but not necessarilythe camera).


Anycomments on this will be gratefully received,


John

What other photo gear do you have?

By the way, welcome to the forum.


Mark

A sigma 150 mm macro lens, both Canon lens converters and a monopod. Apart from that, not a lot really,


John

Welcome to the Forum!


What type of wildlife do you like to shoot; small birds or larger game?


Do you want to shoot sports too, like slow moving humans?


For smaller birds you may also want to consider the 500mm f/4L.


Rich

Hi,


Thanks for the welcome.


I mainly shoot smaller birds, although I use a hide (or the car) soIget fairly close to them and find that a 300 lens with one of the converters seems to do the trick.


However,I would love a 500mm F4, but feel that this would be the next stage after this decision. (I have thought about this, but if I brought this lens now I would have to stick with the 40D for a bit longer)


John

John,


If it were me I would opt for the 7D and 300 f/2.8. Better glass is always the way to go IMO. Cameras change quickly and don't hold resale value like good glass. Also the 2x extender will be better on the 2.8 vs. 4.0 for IQ. I used to own both the 2x and 300 f/4 IS and wasn't crazy about the combination. And with the release of the much more expensive 300 f/2.8 II. now would be a good time to get the original before they are hard to find or the price goes up.


Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tom Wertman

Better glass is always the way to go IMO. Cameras change quickly and don't hold resale value like good glass. Also the 2x extender will be better on the 2.8 vs. 4.0 for IQ.
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I agree


Check out the ISO crop with extenders


Mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tom Wertman

John,


If it were me I would opt for the 7D and 300 f/2.8. Better glass is always the way to go IMO. Cameras change quickly and don't hold resale value like good glass. Also the 2x extender will be better on the 2.8 vs. 4.0 for IQ. I used to own both the 2x and 300 f/4 IS and wasn't crazy about the combination. And with the release of the much more expensive 300 f/2.8 II. now would be a good time to get the original before they are hard to find or the price goes up.


Tom
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+1....I like the combination of 7D and 300 2.8L - AWESOME!

I'd get the 300 f/2.8 also, pretty much just as everyone else said. In 10 years, that lens will still be awesome, but the either camera will be an antique. (I know the 300 f/2.8 II is arriving soon and that it should surpass the current model in some ways, but progress with cameras is much faster than progress with lenses)


If you're interested in the combo that will give you the best performance now, that depends on what you shoot. For small birds, though, I would still go with the 7D + 300 f/2.8, both for the superior reach of the body and the larger aperture of the lens.

Are you taking in to account that the 300mm 2.8L is going to weigh several pounds more than the 300 f4. It gets fairly large with the hood attached and it is not what I would say is a walk around lens. I took mine with my 5D Mark II to the zoo today, I bought a shoulder pack just to carry it in because of its size. It is a work out carrying it around and using, but the pictures are awesome (thats why I put the extra effort in to taking it).


I take it you are taking a lot of pictures of birds in flight and things moving. That your comparing the 7D to the 1d Mark 4 because you want the fast shutter speed. Otherwise you would be looking at the 5D mark II since it would have the better IQ.


(just like most of the responses you have gotten) I would go with the 300mm 2.8L and the 7D if I had to choose one over the other. With this combination you have lens that will get the most out of your camera. With the other combination the 300mm F4 and 1D mark4 you would have a camera limited by its lens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Howell

Hi,


Thanks for the welcome.


I mainly shoot smaller birds, although I use a hide (or the car) soIget fairly close to them and find that a 300 lens with one of the converters seems to do the trick.


However,I would love a 500mm F4, but feel that this would be the next stage after this decision. (I have thought about this, but if I brought this lens now I would have to stick with the 40D for a bit longer)


John

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I do this type of shooting. The 500m F4 gets almost all the work, I went to yellowstone this year and took both. The 300mm never got out of its case. But....if you buy the 500m f4 you have to keep in mind you may end up wanting a good tripod and wimberly head to go with it. That will set you back another $1500.

7D + better glass, 1D isnt that much better. You'll get almost the same autofocus system. How much are you cropping to fit the frame you want? if its alot 400f/2.8 used should be a good idea soon, seance the new one is coming out. They'll still hold their value or might not even change sence the new one is godly expensive. Out put determines input ^_~.

I have the 300mm f/2.8L, with 7D and both extenders, and I don't think the 300mm provides enough reach for small birds, and the 2x extender is not that good in my opinion. I shoot mainly sports so my combination works great for me. The 400mm f/2.8L is also more expensive than the 500mm f/4L.


I would strongly suggest considering the 500mm lens, especially since you already own the 300mm f/4L. I understand that the 300mm f/2.8L is much better than the 300mm f/4L, but I don't think it's worth spending $4500 now and then down the line upgrading to the 500mm f/4L for $6000.


For your type of shooting; I would rather have the 50D = $950 and the 500mm f/4L for $6100: total=$7050


instead of the 7D for $1540 and the 300mm f/2.8L for $4500: total= $6040.


or maybe keep the 40D a little longer until you can save up for the 7D and then buy the 500mm /f4L now.





Rich

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Howell

Canon 7D and a new 300L F2.8 lens


Faster autofocus with the combination???

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Just at the center. the other points are f/5.6 I think?

John, go to "post your best bird shots" thread, looking for Joel Eade's pictures. he used to use 40D+300mm 2.8 and sometimes with 1.4XTC to shoot smaller birds in his back yard, and recently upgraded to a 1D III(refurbished for $2400). here are some links for his pictures in this thread taken both with 40D and 1D III:


http://community.the-digital-picture.com/forums/t/2706.aspx?PageIndex=40


http://community.the-digital-picture.com/forums/t/2706.aspx?PageIndex=41


taking a look at his pictures may help you decide which way will you go.


I use 7D and 300mm2.8 with both TCs and 400mm5.6, most pictures I'v taken are bigger birds(e.g. GBH and egret) in flight or action, and I'm not very happy with the 7D, my biggest concern is sharpness, my keep rates are lower because lots of pictures were not very sharp even when the shutter speeds were 1/3200 or faster, though I'm not sure if it's because of the 7D or my not very steady hands, I was wondering if using 1D body will make big difference. but when it's sharp, 7D can produce very good bird pictures.


getting a better lens seems always a better choice, I probable will get the 500mm 4.0 first if I were you, I'll also consider getting a 1D III . used gears are ok to me if budget is limited. 2X TC seems a waste IMO.


good luck!

Thanks for the nice reference JJphoto......





John,


If I were you I would consider selling or trading your 40D and 300 f/4 and look for a used 1D MKIII and a new 500 f/4.


I rented a 500 f/4 last week for a couple days in Florida and I was blown away....for birds it's the @#it!


I will definitely be getting a bigger lens but probably a couple years due to other obligations.


Look at Lensrentals.com and rent whichever body and lens you like for a weekend so you can see for yourself.





Joel

You want to shoot birds, keep the 40D and get the 500 f/4L IS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Howell

Canon 1D mark4 and my current 300L F4 lens


Pros and cons: Smaller crop factor. Better image quality (can I crop tighter?).

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In your case, I don't think image quality will be a noticeable advantage of the 1D4 -- the advantage would be more in the other 1D-level features like autofocus, weather sealing, etc. The 1d4does have higher image quality from two factors, but they may not apply in your situation. First, the lower reproduction magnification gives you a higher MTF on some lenses, but with typical post processing and lenses these good, I don't think that would be the case here.


You can crop tighter with the 1D4, but only if you frame the same as the 7D (i.e. you get closer with the 1D4). If you shoot from the same distance on both cameras, then cropping the 1D4 will result in lower quality than the 7D uncropped.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Howell

Less noise, so therefore faster shutter speeds

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This is the second "image quality" advantage of the 1D4. But that's only if you use them at the same f-number and don't crop. When you crop them to the same angle of view, the 1D4's advantage is much smaller, and if you use them at different f-numbers (f/4 vs f/2.8), it disappears entirely. So in your case, the 1D4 will not really be capable of faster shutter speeds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Howell

Faster autofocus with the combination???

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I don't know if it will be any faster or more accurate. The 1D4 has a whole bunch of f/4 autofocus sensors, while all of the 7D autofocus sensors (except one) are only f/5.6. The center point on the 7D can take advantage of f/2.8 lenses, though, so if you can use just the center point, the 7D+f/2.8 should be more accurate than the 1D4+f/4.


Overall, I would definitely suggest the 7D+300 f/2.8. The 7D is perfect for wildlife photographers like you.

<span>Canon 7D and a new 300L F2.8 lens


<span>Pros and cons
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<div>I have shot with this combination. The 300 is an awesome (though heavy) lens that focusses as fast as my 70-200 f2.8 IS L II does. I have absolutely no complaints when it comes to the noise on my 7D up until ISO 1600. anything beyond that needs post production work, though I have had a newspaper accept an ISO 6400 shot.</div>
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<div>here are some images I took with this setup. add me as a contact on flickr and you can automatically download the original, uncropped files and zoom in. efix data is visible, too.</div>
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<div>http://www.flickr.com/photos/memostothefuture/4120218038/</div>
<div>http://www.flickr.com/photos/memosto...re/4120201208/ (ISO 400)</div>
<div>http://www.flickr.com/photos/memosto...re/4119361757/ (ISO 800)</div>
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<div>you would be really happy with that combination if you're able to carry this heavy lens. I strongly recommend renting it for a weekend first.</div>
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<div>I haven't had the 300mm F4 in my hands but do wonder why you'd consider the F2.8 if you already have what I understand is a pretty great lens with the same length in your hands.</div>