Computers arghhhhh.. 32 or 64, HDR arghh...

Greetings to all,


Haven't posted in a week or so, as I have been upgrading the computer. Easy enough for some but not for me.


Affectionately known as computer geeks, this demographic laugh at their ownjokes, speak there own language and have an unfailing belief that we less gifted luditesunderstand where they are coming from.


I did evrything I could to make it simple and painless, but it didn't happen my friend. I just received CS5 and HDR Efex software and ordered a new computer system to replace the ancient heap of you know what thatI had been using for too long. I specified my needs to the sales person, Photoshop and blah blah blah. He said that the system I had chosen would not cut it, I would need quad core. "Quad core you say," I think, what could I have been thinking, of course I need quad core. I wonder if there is sext core, maybe I should get that. I didn't ask, but promptly agreed and laughed off my previous system as ancient and went with the experts suggestion.


I took the quote home and looked dreamily at the long list of specs, not having a clue what I was admiring, but admire I did. I went in the next day, saw a different sales rep and ordered the system. A little worried that I may not have enough "memory", I pursued a line of enquiry about ram. This stuff apparantly helps the computer to think about a few things at once and I was told thatperhaps I should upgrade to a name brand, rather than the generic stuff.


Moving along, I picked up the computer on Friday and spent the next five days, slowly andI mean slowly transferring data from the old clunker to the new beast. All the while telling my wife how good it is and yes I have been stuck in this room for days, but evrything needs updating and more blah blah blah.


Today I finally loaded HDR Efex and the damn thing stopped working. "Not enough memory to open all the files," it said. I was onlytrying to open one bloody(Australian expletive that you can say around your Mum and the kids)file. I had 4 gigs of Armani ram, surely that was enough. I jumped on the phone andtechnophile saidI could need more, but we will have to have your machine for 12 hours while we burn in the new ram, cause ram is fickle stuff and sometimes it doesn't work real well and it could just freeze and lock up.


I decided to take it in to the tech repair section and let them fix it.


Nice guy the tech expert, probably from another planet, but he initially told methat it might be ram or it could be my video card, no point throwing ram at it, if the video card cannot keep up with CS5. I had to take it home and run "task manager" and see where all the memory was going. Sounded complicated to me, I started doubting my abilities.


Than he saw it.


On the spec sheet for the machine. "How come you have 32 bit Windows and not 64 bit Windows?" he asked. What you talking about Willis, I thought. "What you talking about?" I asked. The technology God than tells me that 32bit Windows7 can onlyread a maximum of 3 gig of ram but actually only runs at about 2 gig. I could buy another 8 gig and it would still onlyoperate at 2 gig.The only thing to do was re-format the whole thing and install 64 bit Windows and start again.


Arghhh, 5 days of one finger typing and trying to keep a computer reading all the stuff I tried to force feed it.


It wasn't my fault, I had specified what I wanted it to do, but Sales didn't tick the 64 box. And they cost the same, it's not even an upgrade to have 64 bit.


It worked until the HDR crunching started.


This rant was for the benefit of those who one day might need to upgrade their computer and like me don't know about the stuff we aren't supposed to know about.


But mostly it was for me.


Arghh,


Steve

To paraphrase Jon Ruyle:


"Dude, just get a Mac!" [8-|]

Yep Neuro is right ....buy a Mac


Have the tech gurus reload your windows at 64 bit. Problem #1 solved. As for all the other problems your gonna have....again should have went Mac

I guess I should point this out to....once you go 64bit some of your programs may not run on 64bit.....choose wisely which way to go

What? What problems? Arghh.

Steve


If you have your disk that they sent with the computer you may be able reload it. When you do it gives you the option to do 32 or 64 bit.


I loaded windows 7 on one of the drives on my Mac. I had to load 32bit, because I wanted it to play one of my favorite online games and that game would only work in 32bit. If your mainly using it for Adobe then there shouldn't be a problem. You may need to take Adobe off and reload it though once you update to 64bit.


Other problems..well you are running windows and who could guess what problems. (you may need to reload drivers for your computer? maybe not?)





Good Luck

Steve,


If it is any consolation, I am running Windows 7-64bit, on a 5 year old dual core Dell machine with 4 Gig memory. CS4, Photomatix, HDR Efx Pro, Lightroom and even Premier Elements all run great. I did upgrade my video card but that was for video editing, This old machine works great.


Once you reload windows 7-64 bit, most software and drivers will not even load if they are not compatible, But that is rare unless you have very old software.---- I am not a gamer, so I can't speak about the games.


Don't let these "Apple-Eaters" discourage you, they paid twice the price for half the machine [:P].


Good luck and have a happy re-load.


Bob

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Originally Posted by Bob Williams

Don't let these "Apple-Eaters" discourage you, they paid twice the price for half the machine

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I ate my first apple early last year now I am hooked.


Since your machine is new, you should have a disk with all your drivers. It shouldn't be a big deal updating the drivers once you update to 64bit.


When I first loaded windows on my Mac (1/2 a machine can run both platforms....hmmm)...any way I loaded up 64bit and found that the games I wanted to play wouldn't run on 64bit. It was not hard to reload with 32bit...just stick the disk in and re did it.

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Originally Posted by Bob Williams

Don't let these "Apple-Eaters" discourage you, they paid twice the price for half the machine

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Even when I'm only using half my machine - running Windows on a single core as a virtual machine - my Mac runs Windows better than the reasonably well-spec'd Lenovo provided by work. But the biggest difference is that Apple's spinning beachball is prettier and more entertaining than Windows' blue screen of death. Plus...Macslook really, really nice. [H]

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Originally Posted by neuroanatomist

Windows' blue screen of death.

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I've been building PCs for at least 7 yrs now. I have been using them for longer. I would have to say that I haven't seen a blue screen of death in my personal computer since Windows ME.


I may just be lucky. Steering away from the "PORNO" and all.


Macs are nice. I just like being able to build my own and know what and how to replace in it if it ever messes up. For the price of a top of the line MAC, I could really build multiple monster PCs, but some will say that the user experience is just not the same. I agree. It really is different, but is it WORTH it? That is left to considerable debate.


However, if your goal is photoshop, lightroom, etc. Those programs are virtually the same on either system. So saying one is better at photo editing than the other.... Meh, not really.








I do still have iphone envy though. [:$] Those things are awesome. AT&T < Awesome





Oh. and BTW they do have 6 core CPUs.... but not less than $900 just for the part. EEEEEK!!!

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Originally Posted by Steve U

I did evrything I could to make it simple and painless, but it didn't happen my friend. I just received CS5 and HDR Efex software and ordered a new computer system to replace the ancient heap of you know what thatI had been using for too long. I specified my needs to the sales person, Photoshop and blah blah blah. He said that the system I had chosen would not cut it, I would need quad core. "Quad core you say," I think, what could I have been thinking, of course I need quad core. I wonder if there is sext core, maybe I should get that. I didn't ask, but promptly agreed and laughed off my previous system as ancient and went with the experts suggestion.

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For adobe speed ofa singleprocessesor is more important than multi cores, as most of the work will happen in the one core. There are dozens of blogs out where people complain that photoshop only uses one of the cores at a time. It was my understanding (possibly wrong) that CS4 would only use 1 core. CS5is supposed to be able to use multiple cores,for difficult functions, but there are alot of complaints circulating that it does not.Unfortunatly believing the computer geek salesman is an "expert" is usualy a mistake.

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Originally Posted by Dave Johnston

However, if your goal is photoshop, lightroom, etc. Those programs are virtually the same on either system. So saying one is better at photo editing than the other.... Meh, not really.

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When it was CS4 before windows 7, this was not true. You were limited to 4gb of ram on windows, compared to...32gb on my mac pro, its all about speed. It may be right with windows 7 running 62bit now.


As for Apple, I have been using windows since windows came out. What I like about Apple is first all the best stuff goes in their computer. When you buy one, you bring it home and plug it in and guess what...It works. And when you buy somthing to go with it like I phone or I TV or whatever and you bring it home and plug it in.....again it works. No fuss no fight. Order a new drive for my Mac Pro...plug it in and again ..it works. Windows it seems you always have to work on it to get it to dowhat you want it to.

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Originally Posted by HDNitehawk

on my mac pro

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The base price for a MAC pro with only 16 gb is $4,274 on Apples website. (that is with ONE hard drive, ONE VGA card, and no adobe software or monitor.) I don't think we are talking about the same ball park. Sure, its all about speed, but at THAT price [:|]. Ouch.





An apples to apples comparison of similarly spec'd PC and Mac would show little difference in the editing environments of Adobe software. Thats all I am saying.

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Originally Posted by Dave Johnston

The base price for a MAC pro with only 16 gb is $4,274 on Apples website. (that is with ONE hard drive, ONE VGA card, and no adobe software or monitor.) I don't think we are talking about the same ball park. Sure, its all about speed, but at THAT price [img]/emoticons/emotion-8.gif[/img]. Ouch.

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Yes over kill for sure, but it is a work horse. Mine is a year old 2x4 processors with added to 16gb of ram and 4 hard drives. You do pay a premimum for Apple...and mine is the best computer I have ever had to run Windows.


That is why I pointed out earlier that (from what I have read) CS5 needs a fast single processor more than it needs multiple processors. A far less machine is just as capable of running CS5 as adequatly. My understanding is that all the extra beef in my computer doesn't really come in to play unless I am doing some heavy video editing.

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Originally Posted by HDNitehawk

My understanding is that all the extra beef in my computer doesn't really come in to play unless I am doing some heavy video editing.

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Agreed, sir.

My computing environment is multi-cultural. I have real computers (Linux), cheap computers (Windows), and fruit-flavored computer substitutes (Apple).


Out of these, I recommend Mac mostly to rich folks and novices, because it costs about twice as much for the same Chinese-made hardware, and the novices need something that is intuitive and easy to use. For intermediate folks, I recommend Windows because it

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Originally Posted by Daniel Browning

For intermediate folks, I recommend Windows because it's cheaper and it's faster than running Windows software in a VM.

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Using VM yes you are right. Running windows from boot camp...cheaper yes, faster no its the same.

Agreed, but I don

This is the same old pandora

Sorry for your difficulties Steve, it really shouldn't be that hard. The "expert" was an expert salesman,that's for sure, but youdon'tneed a quad core hehe.64 bit works great on W7 and with CS-5. There are still some filter pluginns that only work on the 32 bit CS5 though. But since you install both of them when installing the 64bit software package, it's not a big problem. I personally haven't experienced any other problems than that.

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Originally Posted by HDNitehawk

When it was CS4 before windows 7, this was not true. You were limited to 4gb of ram on windows, compared to...32gb on my mac pro, its all about speed. It may be right with windows 7 running 62bit now.

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Are you kidding me? 32GB for real? Haha you must have multiple very high end processors (6 cores or even more)in that case, plus I assume you're not working with normal HDD's, but multiple SSD's? Anyway you would have a lot of bottlenecks before you're even starting to use a part of all that memory.


I agree Apple looks nice, but it's way overpriced and let's say that their marketing part is the best there is, because you can get a lot more for a lot less [A]


I'm glad I can build my own pc's [:D]

As a computer science major I feel like I should contribute something to this thread... but I'm not sure there's much left. I'd probably just end up repeating things others have already said.


I use Macs because I can afford them, and with VMs I can run every other operating system I want. Currently I'm using Parallels Desktop 6, and I usually can't tell the difference between running Windows or Linux in the VM vs. rebooting the computer into the specific OS. As a computer scientist/programmer, I love Mac OS X because it's a POSIX OS (basically a version of Unix) and I can install almost anything that is built for Unix. I concentrate on web design, and it's great having Apache w/PHP, MySQL, memcached, etc. all ready to go, with the flexibility to install more as I need it.


I generally recommend Macs to those that can afford them because they can get the best of all worlds. I have nothing against PCs, I've owned and built several. I just prefer the flexibility, reliability, and ease of use.

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Originally Posted by Jan Paalman

Are you kidding me? 32GB for real? Haha you must have multiple very high end processors (6 cores or even more)in that case, plus I assume you're not working with normal HDD's, but multiple SSD's? Anyway you would have a lot of bottlenecks before you're even starting to use a part of all that memory.

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While normal users really wouldn't use such a large(at this point) amount of RAM, there are a lot of reasons to have such a machine. High end database servers is one example, and it's nice knowing the consumer version of OS X actually could be used in this way. I dislike Microsoft's marketing tactic of having so many "flavors" of Windows. It seems to make it confusing for those that don't know much about computers, and force others to pay more for what they need.

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Originally Posted by Dave Johnston

I would have to say that I haven't seen a blue screen of death in my personal computer since Windows ME. I may just be lucky.

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I see BSODs on work machines occasionally, but I think that's due to the large number of peripherals attached to them (e.g. one microscope computer will control the scope itself, a couple of laser modules, a motorized stage, 3-4 different cameras connected via Firewire or optical ports, etc., each with their own set of drivers and dll libraries).

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Originally Posted by Dave Johnston

Steering away from the "PORNO" and all.

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I look at"dirty pictures" sometimes - when someone inadvertently uses immersion oil with an air or water objective. [:@] (Honestly, you'd think it would be easier to clean a lens with a front element that's less than one millimeter in diameter than a 77mm element on a zoom lens, but trust me, it's not!)

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Originally Posted by Dave Johnston

I do still have iphone envy though. [img]/emoticons/emotion-10.gif[/img] Those things are awesome. AT&T < Awesome

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I do like my iPhone! But you're wrong about AT&T - they aren't "< Awesome" they are "<<<<< Awesome"! I really hope the rumors of a forthcoming Verizon iPhone are true, if only because it will ease the burden on AT&T's overloaded and under-designed network...



<div>

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Originally Posted by Jan Paalman

I agree Apple looks nice, but it's way overpriced and let's say that their marketing part is the best there is,

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Let's try an analogy - how about Apple : Computers :: Singh-Ray : Filters?
</div>

Apple or PC it

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Originally Posted by Jan Paalman

Are you kidding me? 32GB for real? Haha you must have multiple very high end processors (6 cores or even more)in that case, plus I assume you're not working with normal HDD's, but multiple SSD's? Anyway you would have a lot of bottlenecks before you're even starting to use a part of all that memory.

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I think the point of my statement was that before windows 7, windows was limited to 4gb. Not that I have 32gb on mine or even need that much.


No matter how many PC's I have built...they still run windows. And if you like working on computers (not with) Windows is deffintley the way to go.

Thank you all for your wise counsel.


While I have thought about it, I haven't had the guts to do it. I walk by the white fruity computers in the store and caually let my finger linger at the edge of the inviting keyboard.I just can't do it. I've spoken to guys who assure me that once you have done it you won't look back.But I bought this one, so it isn't an option.


A shiver ran down my spine as I was reading these posts, but if 64 bit Windows7actually works or reads at 32 and 64 than I will be OK. What infuriates me is that at no stage was the 64bit mentioned as an option and it was something that I didn't know about or understand.


It is just frustrating to have the thing reformatted and start from scratch again putting all the stuff back on it. Oh well it will be quicker the second time.


It's another learning opportunity. I didn't understand that whole VM business, that are few posters mentioned. Probably shouldn't go there.


Thanks again,


Steve

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Originally Posted by Steve U

is just frustrating to have the thing reformatted and start from scratch again putting all the stuff back on it. Oh well it will be quicker the second time.


It's another learning opportunity. I didn't understand that whole VM business, that are few posters mentioned. Probably shouldn't go there.

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Steve


VM = Virtual Machine...if I rember correctly that is what it stands for. It is just an option withMac that allows you to run Windows while you are running Mac.


You may have the option to save all the files you have put on the computer when you reload it with 64bit. You may not.


But if you need help while doing this,since you had somany window and computer Guru's that posted in this threadto defend windows, they should be able to give you some assistance. [:P]


Good Luck

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Originally Posted by elmo_2006

Win7 is more robust than anything else that MS has put out there including - in my opinion Xp. I no longer have to reboot every other hour and can finally leave the *machine* up and running weeks on end and typically restart if installing an update or new driver of some sort....One will run into problems with drivers...

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So, you mean with Win7 I could finally have a situation where I'd only have to reboot if I updated the OS or installed complex software? Gee, then it would be just like my Mac OS X experience!


Except......what are drivers?!? [:P]



<div>

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Originally Posted by HDNitehawk

VM = Virtual Machine...if I rember correctly that is what it stands for. It is just an option withMac that allows you to run Windows while you are running Mac.

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<div>More generic than that. A VM basically allows you to run a 'non-native' OS in the environment of the 'native' OS, i.e. Windows under Mac OS X, Linux under Windows or Mac OS X, etc.</div>
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Originally Posted by neuroanatomist

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Originally Posted by elmo_2006

Win7 is more robust than anything else that MS has put out there including - in my opinion Xp. I no longer have to reboot every other hour and can finally leave the *machine* up and running weeks on end and typically restart if installing an update or new driver of some sort....One will run into problems with drivers...

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So, you mean with Win7 I could finally have a situation where I'd only have to reboot if I updated the OS or installed complex software? Gee, then it would be just like my Mac OS X experience!


Except......what are drivers?!? [img]/emoticons/emotion-4.gif[/img]

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LOL, in your case they are referred to as *Software Updates*

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Originally Posted by neuroanatomist

More generic than that. A VM basically allows you to run a 'non-native' OS in the environment of the 'native' OS, i.e. Windows under Mac OS X, Linux under Windows or Mac OS X, etc.

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Ok


Hmmm who was it this morning that got the whole Apple vs Windows debate going.....[6]


On another note I am now at home....and for all the window users out there........my Mac Pro is still buggy and logs me out when I try and post on this forum....Mark One up for Windows

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Originally Posted by HDNitehawk

I think the point of my statement was that before windows 7, windows was limited to 4gb. Not that I have 32gb on mine or even need that much.

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Thank goodness... for personal use this would be quite the power [:D] But you might have been a panorama junkie or something who likes to allign 100+ images at the same time or something [;)] But yes, your point is taken.

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Originally Posted by HDNitehawk

But if you need help while doing this,since you had somany window and computer Guru's that posted in this threadto defend windows, they should be able to give you some assistance. [img]/emoticons/emotion-4.gif[/img]

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Well it is possible with windows 7, however it's not needed for most people since there are only a few programs that are only Mac- or other operating system-specific.


So Mac might not know drivers John, but windows doesn't need a VM [;)] And honestly drivers are pretty much a non-issue with W7 anyway.


Anyway Steve, I hope things turn out positive so you don't regret it.


Btw: Ben, I tried exporting in Lightroom and it uses allthe 4 cores/8 threads.... not just one.

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Originally Posted by Jan Paalman

And honestly drivers are pretty much a non-issue with W7 anyway.

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Why would that be Jan?


I was going to suggest to Steve U that if he bought a name brand PC, he most likely could go to their website and download all the updated drivers after he reloads.

I might be lucky, but my motherbord, graphic card and even cheap wireless cards are updated via the windows update. So no searching for particular drivers. No more cd

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Originally Posted by Jan Paalman

I might be lucky, but my motherbord, graphic card and even cheap wireless cards are updated via the windows update. So no searching for particular drivers. No more cd's like it used to be etc.


At least that's how it works for me. The only time I need a driver is when I re-install my entire system and the windows installer doesn't see my raid set-up. But for normal W7 users, drivers seem to me like a non-issue.

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You sure that is not a manufacture of your computer doing this thing? Not a windows 7 thing?


I know my Dell laptop at work was set up that way and worked fine with updates...then one day while searching "Canon Camera Rumors" a web site had a nasty bug on it that killed the lap top. The IT guys ended up reloading windows and wiping the hard drive, they said this was easier. When it came back it was bugged bad and I had to de bug it myself. The problem was the IT guys (I believe that stands for Idiot Techs in this case) loaded all generic drivers. When I finally figured out the problem I went to Dell's website and got the right drivers, problem solved. Of course it wasn't windows 7 on the system, I was just wondering if windows had put a way for the PC to figure out what it needed and update itself.

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Originally Posted by neuroanatomist

But the biggest difference is that Apple's spinning beachball is prettier and more entertaining than Windows' blue screen of death. Plus...Macslook really, really nice. [img]/emoticons/emotion-11.gif[/img]

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Well John, I have to bow to that [:'(] I agree. Honestly, I keep looking at the Mac's at the store and they really look nice and clean-----But there is just something wrong with shoving all of your hardware into the monitor---I just can't get past that, and I can't afford a Mac Pro. Besides that, thier inlcuded keyboard doesn't have a number pad---who's bright idea was that?

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Originally Posted by HDNitehawk

Hmmm who was it this morning that got the whole Apple vs Windows debate going.....[img]/emoticons/emotion-14.gif[/img]

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Must of been Neuro

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Originally Posted by Bob Williams

Besides that, thier inlcuded keyboard doesn't have a number pad---who's bright idea was that?

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I was puzzled when they changed this as well... the wireless keyboard doesn't have a number pad, which makes sense for portability, but on the wired keyboard I don't see a reason for its exclusion. If you order the computer from Apple, you can specify whatever keyboard you like, including the extended keyboard with numberpad. I've always bought directly from Apple because usually it's cheaper with either a student discount or AAAS discount.

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Originally Posted by HDNitehawk

<span style="font-size: 11.6667px;"]On another note I am now at home....and for all the window users out there........my Mac Pro is still buggy and logs me out when I try and post on this forum....Mark One up for Windows

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Ah, I was wondering whether other Mac users had the same problem, must be some incompatibility between Safari (at least that's what I'm using) and the Forum software.


Ciao, Colin

Yes, it does seem to be a Safari issue. Turning on Private Browsing seems to correct it, at least for me, leading me to think it's a cookie issue.

I so feel your pain, Steve! I am having computer issues as of late and am debating whether to upgrade my current or buy a new PC. Both can be very painful!


Your experience so vividly reminded me of every experience I have had in the past with the geek squad at Best Buy! I have NEVER had a pleasant experience buying a new PC.


Last time I took my old computer to Best Buy, they had to restore to new because of spyware or something. I paid them to back up EVERYTHING to disks before doing so. They neglected to dothis and photos of my last family vacation were gone along with many other memorable photos!


In my book, every family should have a doctor, dentist, mechanic and computer wiz in it!!! Unfortunately, mine has none of the above! [:'(]


Denise

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Originally Posted by ddt0725

In my book, every family should have a doctor, dentist, mechanic and computer wiz in it!!!

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You may want to add Veterinarian to that list too! LOL!


Paul