Going Digital - Need Advice

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12-20-2010, 08:01 PM
alex saltzman

Going Digital - Need Advice

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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri;"]Now I need a little advice. I know that my question has probably been covered a number of times in this forum, so I am sorry for the duplication...any suggestions would be much appreciated.<o:p></o:p>

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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri;"]I used an EOS 1 and an A2. With less time to travel and take pics over the years, I eventually sold the eos1(mistake) and just kept the A2 with a couple of lower end lenses. Haven't shot much in 10+ years.<o:p></o:p>

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri;"]I am now in a position to start traveling and taking pics again, headed toThailand and<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] Cambodia and then to Peru where I am going to hike the Inca trail to Machu Picchu. All of that being said, I’ve been using the A2 for a long time, and though I thought about getting another EOS 1, it might be time for a DSLR.<o:p></o:p>

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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri;"]I will probably be taking mostly travel/landscape photos, including temples, ruins, architecture, etc….


<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri;"]Honestly, I don’t really care about video, just want a good digital camera that will last me 10 or so years. I know the 5D is abetter camera with the full frame but I don’t know if I what I am using it for is worth the extra money? Am I<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] really losing out on picture quality by going with the 7D? (I would like to be able to print big if I want to.) Is the build quality of the 5D much better?

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri;"]Also, do the lenses I mention make sense as every day lenses for their respective cameras. When I travel overseas now, I want one body and one great lense, that’s it. (If I shoot wildlife I would bring something bigger but for regular travel, just one lense.)<o:p></o:p>

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12-20-2010, 08:11 PM
HDNitehawk

Re: Going Digital - Need Advice

The 7D is built for speed, sports and moving objects. Wildlife with a long telephoto would be good as well.

The 5D Mark II is built for landscapes, potraits and has high Image Quality. For landscapes if you print big...go with the 5D

Will you be happier in 10 years? If your happy with 10 year old technology yes. They are electronic devices and just like computers they change quick. BUT...in 10 years what will it cost you to print film? Canon took their high end 35mm out of production, film is even going to be more obsolete.

As for your lens choices both seem reasonable with what you are wanting to do. Niether would be my first choice. You may want to add a flash to the 5D Mark II though since it does not have one.
12-20-2010, 08:50 PM
neuroanatomist

Re: Going Digital - Need Advice

Hi Alex, and welcome to the TDP Forums!

The 5DII and 7D are both excellent cameras, but intended for different purposes. If you'll be taking mostly landscape/travel photos, I think you'll be best served by the 5DII. The 7D is a sports/action/wildlife camera. For family photos and travel, I use my 5DII whereas when I'm going out to shoot birds/wildlife I grab my 7D. The build quality of both is very good (the 7D has better weather-sealing than the 5DII).

If you get the 5DII, the 24-105mm f/4L IS is a great general purpose lens, and I use it often. The 17-40mm is reportedly very good, but best use when you can stop it down a bit (as you would for landscapes on a tripod). I use the 16-35mm f/2.8L II instead, since the extra stop is a benefit for low light.

If you get the 7D, I think the best general purpose zoom for that body is theEF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS. It offers better IQ than the 17-40mm on a crop body (better than the 24-70mm, too), has a fast aperture, and has image stabilization. All it lacks is weather-sealing.

One thing to be aware of in the 1.6x crop vs. FF comparison - as you know, it applies to the focal length (and you probably also know that EF-S lenses with their smaller image circle nevertheless have 'true' focal lengths meaning you multiply them by 1.6x to get their FF equivalents. What you may not as a film shooter know is that the crop factor also applies to depth of field for the same subject framing (i.e. an f/2.8 lens behaves like an f/4.5 lens on a crop body, since you have to move further from the subject to get the same angle of view, and that reduces DoF). Also, due to the greater light-gathering capabilities of a FF sensor, the ISO noise of a FF sensor is 1.6x better (1.3 stops) than a crop sensor, all else being equal. For me (I have a low tolerance for image noise), that means ISO 1600 is fine on my 5DII, and just barely tolerable on the 7D (where I really prefer to keep the ISO under 800).

Hope that helps, and good luck with your decisions!

--John
12-20-2010, 09:00 PM
alex saltzman

Re: Going Digital - Need Advice

Thanks for the response!!

What lenses would you suggest?

WIth regard to the 10 years out question, I am hoping that if I spend between $1600 and $2500 on a camera body that 10 years from now it will still function well and give me good pictures. There is no doubt that a DSLR that I buy today will be somewhat antiquated when compared to modern technology 10 years from now, but as long as it takes good pictures, I am okay with the old stuff.
12-20-2010, 09:11 PM
neuroanatomist

Re: Going Digital - Need Advice

What
12-20-2010, 09:31 PM
HDNitehawk

Re: Going Digital - Need Advice

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex saltzman

<p class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: small;"]<span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"]I will probably be taking mostly travel/landscape photos, including temples, ruins, architecture, etc….

This sounded like an "I need a 5d Mark II" statement, more than it sounded like a 7D statement. If you could narrow the choice down to one body, the lens recomendations will be less as each will get diffrent recomendations.
12-20-2010, 11:26 PM
alex saltzman

Re: Going Digital - Need Advice

I was hoping to spend less than $3,000 for the lens and body which would have put me in 7d range.

The only lense I have left are

28-105 f/3.5-4.5 usm

300 f/4 L usm

1.4x

I also have an old 80-200 2.8 L which I seem to have misplaced...think is
12-21-2010, 12:05 AM
HDNitehawk

Re: Going Digital - Need Advice

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex saltzman

Would that be like putting 15 inch rims on a new Ferrari?

That might be, it depends on the rims though.

The 5D Mark II with the 24-105 F4 kit lens is $3299. I still think you would need a flash to go with it, if you want to do much inside shooting. F4 is a little slow.

If you can't make the $ stretch to the 5D with a flash, I like John's recommendation of the 7D withEF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS. The 7D has an inboard flash, that set up would cost about $2600.

My first choice would be the 5D Mark II, but both of these cameras will serve you well.

Good Luck
12-21-2010, 12:21 AM
HDNitehawk

Re: Going Digital - Need Advice

Quote:

Originally Posted by neuroanatomist

What you may not as a film shooter know is that the crop factor also applies to depth of field for the same subject framing (i.e. an f/2.8 lens behaves like an f/4.5 lens on a crop body, since you have to move further from the subject to get the same angle of view, and that reduces DoF)

John

Maybe my interpreting skills are weak, but it doesn't seem like this is worded right. The crop camera will give you the same DOF as the FF camera, with the Crop Camera set at 4.5 and the FF set at 2.8 at the same distance. However at 2.8 the crop camera will give you a much narrower DOF than the FF camera at 2.8 at equal distances.

If you move 10 feet from the subject with FF and 16 feet from the subject with the 1.6 crop you do not get the same result at F2.8 on both cameras at different distances. For some reason it seems to apply to the DOF at equal distances but, for some reason the 1.6 factor does not relate the same way to the distance from the subject.

Suffice to say for Alex's purposes, he needs to beware of the factor.
12-21-2010, 12:25 AM
neuroanatomist

Re: Going Digital - Need Advice

I'll second Rick's suggestions. If you're in the USA, with the current rebates (and double lens rebate on the 17-55mm if bought with a 7D), the cost is pretty good through 1/8 ($2520). That leaves extra for a good tripod, good CPL filter (e.g. B+W), etc.
12-21-2010, 01:12 AM
alex saltzman

Re: Going Digital - Need Advice

one last question...a friend of mine just emailed me and said he might be willing to sell me his 5D Mark I for about $850 as he is upgrading.

I
12-21-2010, 01:16 AM
HDNitehawk

Re: Going Digital - Need Advice

I have never had one, but in 10 years it would be 15 year old technology. I would prefer the new 5D mark II or the 7D over it. There are a lot of improvements and upgrades to the new cameras.
12-23-2010, 11:14 PM
Daniel Browning

Re: Going Digital - Need Advice

Great questions, Alex. I hope I can give you some useful information. I think we should touch on some of the differences between film and digital:

Ye Olde cameras came with hot-swappable image sensors (also known as "film", for you young folks). This meant that every camera, even 30-year-old models could take advantage of the newest advances in film emulsion technology the very same day that they hit the market, and you could even swap between several different types of film in a matter of minutes.

Digital is totally different -- the film (sensor) is stuck in the camera and can never be changed or improved. As new films (sensors) are developed and improved, there is no way for you to take advantage of them like you did when you bought new film for your camera. I'm sure you remember how much film improved over the course of a decade.

With film, buying one good body and keeping it for 10 or 20 years was feasible, because you you didn't have to use 20-year-old film with it. But since you can't with digital, cameras fall quickly out of date.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex saltzman

So, 10 years from now, which camera am I going to be happier with, the 7D or the 5D.

Let me ask you this. 10 years from now, which computer would you be happier with, a 100 mhz with 128 MB of RAM, or a 150mhz with 256 MB of ram? I think the answer is "neither". Just like with computers, you would get better results spending $1000 on a camera now and $1000 on another one in 5 years rather than $2500 all right now that has to last you a decade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex saltzman

Is the 5D worth the extra $600 or so?

It has a lot of advantages over the 7D, but most of them don't apply to landscape/architecture. The 7D has a ton of features that the 5D2 does not have, like FPS, autofocus, etc. But if you're considering the 5D2 then that might mean these aren't very important to you. In that case, I would strongly advise you to consider the 60D instead. That will leave you an extra $1500 to spend on a new camera (like getting the latest film technology) in 3-5 years.

As for a used Canon 5D for $850, that sounds like a good price, but it's so far behind on features, I would personally prefer a 60D far more. The liveview feature alone is so vital to my landscape and architecture photography that I cannot imagine ever having to go back to a camera that lacks that feature.

Happy shooting!