Bridge changing my colors?
Hey guys,
So for my processing workflow, I generally import photos from the camera into Bridge, do some basic edits in ACR and then in CS4 if needed. My problem though, is that I have a custom profile on my 7D for when I take the images that automatically sharpens the images and reduces the contrast. When the files show up in Bridge, they are darker and aren't sharpened. To make sure I wasn't just seeing things, I compared the images on my screen to that of my camera. They were different. So I tried again using the monochrome color profile. Once the images got into bridge, they went immediately to color again.
Does Bridge just kill the user color profile when it imports the images? And is there anyway to keep it from doing that?
Thanks,
Mike
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
Raw or jpeg? The in-camera adjustments only apply to jpeg images, raw images are processed outside the camera, and except for DPP, may not be applied on the import of raw images.
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
That would be why then. I shoot in raw only.
That
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG2012
That would be why then. I shoot in raw only.
Yep. Picture Styles (default and custom), as well as things like Peripheral Illumination Correction, Auto Lighting Optimizer, etc., are applied to in-camera JPGs. The settings are written into the RAW files, but while Canon's DPP recognizes and applies them to the RAW file during processing, other image processing programs do not.
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
So if I want to apply the picture styles to the RAW files, I
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
You'd have to process them to 16-bit TIFF files with DPP, then bring those into PS. DPP will save changes directly to the RAW files, but as metadata that it recognizes but PS/Bridge/LR/etc. do not (AFAIK, only DPP can write editing parameters into the RAW file metadata - other programs use 'sidecar' files).
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
Mike
The problem is that many of these companies do not play well together. Why else would Adobe software not be able to read everything in the RAW files the same as DPP. Really I am not sure why this isn
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
HDNitehawk
I agree with you completely. Canon seems to do a lot of things like that just so that people use their gear only or have to buy more of it. I
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG2012
Its not like it'd be illegal to read the data, right?
Nikon sued Adobe over just that. They encrypted the white balance info, and claimed a DMCA violation by when Adobe cracked their encryption, because, you know, Nikon owns the copyright on your WB info, not you.
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG2012
I'm surprised though that Adobe hasn't come out with some sort of algorithm to read the data from the RAW files. Its not like it'd be illegal to read the data, right?
Of course. But the data only tells you what to do, not how to do it. For example, the only thing that the metadata says about Automatic Lighting Optimizer is "off, low, medium, or strong". But the actual effect that it causes is different for every single image. Now, if Canon documented somewhere what ALO (and any other setting) actually does, then someone else could implement it. Until then, the only option is to use DPP.
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Browning
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG2012
I'm surprised though that Adobe hasn't come out with some sort of algorithm to read the data from the RAW files. Its not like it'd be illegal to read the data, right?
Of course. But the data only tells you what to do, not how to do it. For example, the only thing that the metadata says about Automatic Lighting Optimizer is "off, low, medium, or strong". But the actual effect that it causes is different for every single image. Now, if Canon documented somewhere what ALO (and any other setting) actually does, then someone else could implement it. Until then, the only option is to use DPP.
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Maybe I'm making a weird mental leap but that doesn't seem to make sense. Simply because when in photoshop, you seta genericfilter to sharpen the image as a whole and it applies it based on the differences in the pixels, same as contrast in a sense. The Custom Profile simply states to sharpen the output image by a certain extent and decrease the contrast by another amount. Now granted, the ratio upon which each progression in the Custom Profile is equal to may be up for grabs, but the applying of that filter should not be an issue ifthe metadatasimply reads, "The camera says sharpen by level 4 and decrease contrast by -4."
I guess it comes down to what information is recorded in the metadata and how its formatted. Becuase although I do see your point now that I think about it, one would think that the camera has to write the data to explain how DPP needs to apply the filter. Therefore, another program would be able to read it as well. Otherwise, DPP wouldn't know how to apply the setting either.
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG2012
..one would think that the camera has to write the data to explain how DPP needs to apply the filter. Therefore, another program would be able to read it as well.
Αυτ?ς ε?ναι ο τρ?πος που ε?ναι επειδ? ε?ναι εκε?νος ο τρ?πος. There's the answer to you question. In Greek. Can you read it? What if the camera wrote those instruction in Kulfargarian, a mythical language where Google's translation engine will be of no help? As was pointed out earlier, Canon encodes the data. Adobe could almost certainly break the code, and then be subject to a lawsuit. I guess it's not worth it, to them.
It would be nice if all formats were cross application and cross platform - if MS PowerPoint files would open seamlessly in Keynote and vice versa, etc. Alas, the world just doesn't work that way. [:(]
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
Haha fair enough. Guess I
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
FWIW, the Greek phrase above translates to, "That's the way it is because it is that way." [:)]
Re: Bridge changing my colors?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG2012
Simply because when in photoshop, you seta genericfilter to sharpen the image as a whole and it applies it based on the differences in the pixels,
But what if DPP uses USM sharpening, whereas Lightroom uses deconvolution sharpening? Or what if DPP uses the demosaic algorithm for sharpening and Lightroom uses USM? Well, one solution might be to copy the exact same sharpening code from one program to the other (either break into Canon and steal it, or reverse engineer it). But even that is not enough, because the demosaic and color processing is going to affect sharpening as well.
So even if you have the *exact* same sharpening code and controls in both programs, and process the same raw in both programs at the same setting (e.g. "+3"), you're still going to get images thatlook like they were sharpened differently.And that's just *sharpening*, never mind the tons and tons of other features.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG2012
, one would think that the camera has to write the data to explain how DPP needs to apply the filter.Therefore, another program would be able to read it as well. Otherwise, DPP wouldn't know how to apply the setting either.
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That's not how it works. If you tell your BFF "let's do our secret handshake", you don't have to spell out the dozen steps involved, from high fives to fist bumps, because you've already worked it out together in advance, in secret. But if you tell a stranger "let's do our secret handshake", they wont know what to do.
Same thing with Canon. The camera designers and the DPP programmers get together in secret and decide to use "ALO: medium" in the metadata. Then, in DPP, that will actually cause a thousand different complicated processing steps and secret blend of herbs and spices.
So there are several issues here:
- Do third parties even want to try to read Canon metadata and emulate DPP image controls and rendering?
- If they want to, are they able to see the metadata, or does Canon prevent them by encrypting the data?
- If they are willing, and the data is available, are they *able* to figure out the secret sauce that Canon puts behind the controls?
From my understanding, the second issue is never a problem. The "encryption", if any, is always amateur-hour stuff that's easy to crack. The most difficult step is figuring out Canon's secret sauce. But even if they could do it somehow with no work involved whatsoever, I think many raw converters wouldn't even want to. First, it would require a whole separate set of internal processing -- essentially two raw converters in one program -- and that kind of complexity can ruin a programming project. For example, if a third party used a different color space than DPP, users wouldn't be able to get the same color in some cases, so the program would have to allow emulation of DPP's color space processing.Furthermore, differentiating themselves from DPP is how they sell products, so they may not feel that "can emulate DPP perfectly" is a valuable feature.
I think the ideal solution would be for all camera manufacturers to open source their raw converters.
