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I want to step up the quality of my photographs of sunsets and sunrises. Of the landscape images that grab my attention on sites like Flickr, the ones I mark as "favorites" often are made with said filters. Things I want to know: hand held in front of lens vs mounted on frames? screw on filters such as a Vari ND $ingh Ray...worth it and easier to use? Any input is appreciated. thanks, erno.
Any input, well OK then.
I[8-|] can teach you grasshopper, we'll open a bottle 96' red and start workin on them sunsets.[H]
But one thing first, what's a graduated ND filter?[*-)]
Hehe.[:D]
Steve
The Singh-Ray VariND is not a graduated ND filter. Grad NDs are dark on one half, clear on the other. Since the sky will be 2-3 stops brighter than the ground/ocean, the idea is you place the dividing line at the horizon to darken the sky (sunrise, sunset) while letting the land/ocean be more exposed. That means screw-in grad NDs are not ideal, since they force you to place the horizon in the middle of the image (rather than off center, perhaps along one of the 'rule of thirds' lines, which is generally preferable).
So, you want a rectangular grad ND so you can place the horizon where you want. You then need to choose how strong (2 vs. 3 stops are the usual choices, look at some images you have shot and see if adjusting by 2 stops would be enough to properly expose both sky and ground). You also need to choose hard or soft - hard has a crisp line between the dark and light portions, soft is a more gradual transition from dark to clear. You'd use hard for a clean horizon, like sky over ocean, and soft for an uneven horizon, like hills or trees.
Holders are optional, the filters can be handheld - perhaps try it that way first, and if you don't like the results, get a holder. Make sure your filters and holder are wide enough not to vignette on your widest angle lens.
An alternative to using a grad ND filter is to try HDR to blend exposures - software like Photomatix is cheaper than a good grad ND filter (free to try, in fact).
Hope that helps...
--John
thanks for the info fellas. Steve, what if i shoot my sunsets thru an empty wine bottle. Do you think that would do the trick?
neuro, welcome back and thanks for the info. I think i
Course it will Erno.
I love the balance of this site, John has the tech stuff covered and I can be a goose.
Seriously for a second, I recently did a landscape course and the teacher encouraged us to play with white balance, as the sun set, to try images with Fluro, Tungsten and so on, in camera and see how that changes the images as the light changes from bright to, gold, to blue.
Interesting exagerated purple hues.
Steve.
thanks for that tip steve, but if i just use white balance settings to alter sunset photography, i wont be spending money. i would feel dirty not spending any more money to keep my hobby going strong.
Erno, this article might be helpful:
http://singhray.blogspot.com/2009/04/filters-holders-and-vignetting-building.html
outstanding reference material J Huyer! very kind of you to shed some light on this issue for me.
For sunsets and sunrises, you are probably looking for a reverse nd grad filter. It will get the sunrise/sunset near the horizon and not darken up the sky too much.
I use ND grad filters often. They adjust the difference between the overly bright (blown-out) sky and the landscape shot. Great clouds make the shot always...
J. Huyer,
Thanks for the link, that was a great article.
Does anyone know, if I were to purchase the Cokin "P" series filter holder that is talked about in the article the link goes to, is my B&W circular polarizer compatible with it?
I would really like to incorporate the Grad ND filter system into my landscape photography, but I
Hey there Alex, if you arent out in the freezing cold, there
Beautiful image Erno, I saw an article the other day, where the photographer reversed his lens hood and used to big red rubber bands to hold a welding filter in place for a 40 sec exposure in the middle of the day.
Have you used this method of holding a filter in place? It is a lot easier if you have a petal type lens hood, the rubber bands just slip over that and stretch to the filter in the front.
Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroanatomist
John's suggestion is good one, and my preferred method for most (not all) contrasty images. Photomatix does an excellent job.
Having said that, though, I do have the rectangular Cokin's. The holders do make things a lot simpler. Trying to hold the filter in front of the lens, with scenes that require rock steady conditions can be a challenge, so the holders give you one less thing to have to worry about. However, there is severe vignetting with FF cameras and wide lenses with the holders. After experiencing too much of this vignetting, I use HDR more, graduated ND filters less. A bit of further correction in Photoshop will take care of any loose ends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erno james
That's a nice shot, erno! I like the idea. I suppose if I'm just getting into using a ND filter, the bare-handed hold may be the place to start. If it doesn't work, I can always get more stuff, right?
And as was also pointed out (sorry, I can't remember who, and I searched for 15 minutes and couldn't figure out how to quote more than one person in one post at the same time), a petal-shaped hood and a rubber band might make for a good holder. I have the petal-shaped 17-55mm hood, so that might work fine.
It seems that a soft-gradient 3-stop ND filter might be where to start.
Alex
Yes, your B+W screw on filter will fit behind the cokin-P holder.
When shooting landscape, my polarizer stays on my lens. I add the cokin-P holder in front and put on a modified cokin-P hood as well. I've even put my ND400 screw-on filter, my B+W deep CPL and the cokin holder and not gotten any vignetting...
You should start with a 2 stop soft ND grad. If you're just getting into this, the order to purchase these would be...
1. B+W KSM or Marumi Super DHG CPL
2. Cokin-P holder (less than $4 on ebay)
3. Hitech or Singh-Ray 2 stop Soft ND grad (on ebay, used Singh-Ray's are about $75, New Hitech's are about $30)
4. Hitech or Singh-Ray 2 stop Hard ND grad
5. Singh-Ray Daryl Benson reverse ND grad 3 stop
Then, fill in the 2 and 3 stop filters before purchasing the 1 stops...
Another repost...
Two of the best articles on nd's and nd grads...
<a target="_blank" title=" http://www.redbubble.com/people/peterh111/journal/4421304-the-ultimate-easy-guide-to-neutral-density-filters" href=" http://www.redbubble.com/people/peterh111/journal/4421304-the-ultimate-easy-guide-to-neutral-density-filters"]
http://www.redbubble.com/people/peterh111/journal/4421304-the-ultimate-easy-guide-to-neutral-density-filters[/URL]
http://www.nathangriffin.com/technical/how_to_graduated_nd.htm
Going to a strong nd filter (ndx400 or darker) is a natural progression after you master the grads...
This was shot with a 3 stop soft grad filter and a screw-on CPL. I then brought it into lightroom and applied a grad filter and brought it back one stop...
http://capnscott.com/images/20110414-_MG_1675.jpg
My histogram ends up being a nicely formed bump right in the middle. This allows me to crank up the contrast. If the shot is kept within a 5 stop range, everything behaves well and it's an easy edit in lightroom...
Here