Deterring Crime

Good Morning, Guys!


I am facing a dilemma here that has really limited my shooting opportunites of late. Maybe some suggestions will help me get over it& get back to normal!


Alittle background info ...


Many times after work I would go to a beautiful park near my office to shoot (about an hour from where I live). Last week, in midday, a girl was attacked while jogging in the exact area I normally go to. The first day that I was planning to go after the winter thaw, I read this in the paper. The article said they don't know if the attacker wanted her Ipod or her because she was able to fight him off and run to an area where people were and call for help but he got away.


Since reading this, I have cancelled plans to shoot sunrises and walking park trails on the few nice weather days that we have had recently. It was like a lightbulb went on in my head reminding me that it is not safe to be out and about alone like I have been doing, with or without my gear!


Today it is suppose to be beautiful outside but I am heading to my backyard soon instead of a park.


Last year, I posted on craigslist that I wanted to start a hobbyist group with other local photographers but no bites.Now that I think about it, maybe thatalone was an invitation to crime but my family & friends have better things to do than going with me all the time and standing around while I take photos!


If I don't get over this soon, all you guys will be seeing out of me is LOTS of backyard bird photos! What a waste of beautiful weather to come! Or maybe the question is ...should I get over this!?


Denise

Denise....you're right to be concerned, but you can't live your life in fear.


You will need to heighten your awareness in an area like this and be prepared to react.


Suggestions; have easy access to your cell, (more importantly) have (bear [:)] ) pepper spray attached to your jacket, don't be so focused on shooting, be prepared to leave a spot if you're uncomfortable, let people know where you are and how long you estimate the shoot will take, don't hesitate to call contacts if you're running late, etc.


I'm sure others will have more ideas to stay safe, but your concerns are normal...you just need to develop precautions IMO.


good luck


Bill

Denise,


You dogs can be a distraction for you but a deterrent to criminals. They know even the sweetest dogs will protect their owners. They will leave you alone and go pray on someone that is easy pray.


Mark

I agree with Bill, though you may want to check your local laws on using bear spray on a human. If it is life or death, sure anything goes. But a pick-pocket or peeping tom may be a different story.


Another thing to keep in mind is bad guys will instinctively go for easy targets. One of the easiest ways to remove yourself from the "easy" target list is to simply be aware of your surroundings. Pay attention to the people (or person) around you. If they know that you know they are there (confusing??), it will drastically lessen your chances of being a victim. I would venture to say 99% of the bad guys go after the people that didn't know they were there.


Braden

I like Bill's idea on Pepper Spray, and letting people know when, where, and about how long you will be out.


I was at a local sporting good store yesterday (looking for smoke flares for a shoot [:P]), and I came across a small 1"x1/2" keychain whistle for those stranded and lost hiking in the forest. That maybe a good thing to have as well as an alternative to a rape whistle!


Also, I think many people have hesitancy using Craiglist especially with the crimes apparently associated with them. Flickr typically has a local Flickr Meet Group that meets up with local photographers in your area to do monthly shoots. I know there were dozens of photographers that attended my local Flickr meetup to shoot a Special Olympics Polar Plunge couple months ago!! [:D]


-Tak

Denise


Human pepper spray is a good idea. Bear spray not so much unless you have bears in the area, one thing is it's to big and bulky and it's designed for bears not humans.


Craiglist is used by many theifs and criminals, advertising for a photo group you might be ok. Theifs would tend to avoid groups like this, but be careful.


I have thought about security myself, usually at big parks where a lot of people go through in remote areas. For instance in Yellowstone last year I was always on guard. Which has me thinking about concealed carry. National parks prohibited firearms till about a year ago when certain laws changed, now whatever carry law of the state you are in applies to the park. Call me a redneck, but there are to many nuts out there that would knock you in the head for $12000 worth of camera gear.

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Originally Posted by HDNitehawk

Call me a redneck, but there are to many nuts out there that would knock you in the head for $12000 worth of camera gear.

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Red Neck! [:)]


There are too many nuts out there that would knock you in the head for much less just to get their next rock of Crack or fix of Meth.


When I am out and about walking through the woods or on a nature trail alone, I am always tuned into what is going on around me. I have my ears tuned to any noise and eyes to everything around me. It not only helps me find and see the wildlife I am out to take pictures of, but it keeps me alert to anything approaching me such as other noisy people with no respect for nature or people trying to take pictures.. [:@]
Fortunately I am not a very small person, and have been told I can be a little intimidating. I worry more about people breaking into my vehicle when it's left in an isolated area and I'm away from it.

I think I am going to look into the human pepper spray. I have no idea where to purchase it. Maybe it will at least provide me with some sense of security when I am out & at least get me out there. I just don

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Originally Posted by tkerr

There are too many nuts out there that would knock you in the head for much less just to get their next rock of Crack or fix of Meth.

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Thats true, and at the public parks everyone gets to come in.


Insurance takes care of people breaking into the vehicle. I worry more that my insurance won't pay off than I do about the criminal ripping it off. Insurance companies will work harder to rip you off than the thieves will, at least thats been my experience. Thats why I always make sure everything is covered up in the car before I leave.


As for being in the back woods, you are much safer against thieves when off the road on the trails. Thieves are looking for something easy, and walking a mile or two to steal your camera isn't easy. But for a woman in the park, attackers may not be thieves and what they want they may prefer to be off the trail.


Denise


My step daughter carries it on her key chain. You could keep it on your camera, on a belt or in your pocket. The one she has is less than three inches long and very compact. You have to discharge it fairly close. Now if you use bear spray, it will go 15 to 20 feet away, but it can be as dangerous to you as it is to your attacker. When you use it if your not aware of the wind it will blow back on you. The canisters are more the size of a household spray can. Bear spray can be had at most camping stores.


My thoughts are this, the human spray is small and concealed. Say your walking on a trail and some people are moving on the same trail past you and your not to comfortable with them. You can have the pepper spray in your hand ready to go and they will never know. Then if thy are no threat and just people out for a nature hike, if you pull the big can of bear spray out as they are walking up they may think your the one that is psycho and take off running.


Don't live in fear, but just be prepared. Life is to short to not enjoy.





Rick

Denise


One other thought, Tasers are leagal in many states. I would go to your local firearms store, they normally carry mace and tasers and see what options they might have for you.


Rick

Sorry folks, I meant to put a smiley face after the bear......it was an attempt at humor, but w/out the smiley face it missed it's mark.


TKerr....I agree w/you, although I take precautions when leaving my care, I'm more concerned w/someone breaking into my car than threatening me. But this doesn't lower my awareness while I'm in a rural area alone.


Bill

Yesterday after work I made a quick stop at the store. I had my gear bag on the passenger seat but parked in the first spot closest to the store & I was just running in and out so I knew it would be ok there. I have a Nissan Murano which to lock the doors, I just push the rubber button on the outsidedoor handle (which lately I'm having to push it harder for it to actually lock). Anyway, so I push the button, run in the store, run out, push the button to unlock the door and ...OMG! The door locks! So, in my rush when I pushed the button to lock the door, it never took and the whole time I was in the store, the doors were unlocked! For a brief moment, I couldn't breathe and was terrified to look at the passenger seat!


Thank goodness my bag was still there!! I am the type of person that is in constant overdrive ...I need to slow down, I cannot believe how careless I was!


Denise

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for the fourth time, I am going to retry this post-----Just uplaoded IE 9, and it doesn

As an MP in the Marine Corps I had to be sprayed multiple times with pepper mace and while remarkably unpleasant I

A gun is not a good deterrent for robbery. It

Well said Wicker, very timely advice.

I like everything that has been said here and do not have much more to add except this...plan ahead. Both in terms preparedness (as talked about above), i.e. how to store your gear, insure your gear, what you have with you, etc...but also in terms of the situation. Think of a couple "bad" situations that you could get into and think about how you want to react. If you think about how to react in that situation beforehand, you are more likely to react in that way if the actual event ever happens.


But I also wouldn

Wow, lots of suggestions here!


All the areas I go in are generally safe but I guess there is no place that is 100%. I think I will look into getting some type of spray to carry. Thanks for the link on the fox spray, Bob. Are all types of spray legal to carry anywhere?


Also, I guess I have to remember to never let my guard down and get so involved in the photography that I lose sight of my surroundings in general!


One thing I did not see suggested here is self-defense training. I see classes advertised ever so often, some even geared specifically for women. I wonder if those help or give a person unrealistic (not sure if that is the word I

My dog chases everything too. Especially when I tell her to stop. She

Denise


Wickerprints advice is good if we are just talking about a thief.


I know you have seen most of this in other threads but I will restate it.


I will add this as far as insurance. Make a list of all your camera equipment and accessories. My policy requires that each individual piece be listed for camera equipment. It also does the same for jewelry. I bet a lot of people that have the same policy have overlooked this "fine print" and have been burned. Any way make a list with serial numbers and the price you paid. Take it to your agent and make sure you get "full replacement cost" so they do not depreciate it at loss. MAKE SURE you see it in writing from your agent that you are covered exactly the way you want. The policy will be a rider policy on top of your home owners and will cost additional. ALSO NOTE, that the accessories on mine had to be listed individually.


Another question to ask is where will the insurance be in effect. Some companies limit their polices. Mine covers world wide, others could limit you by state or location.


Do this then don

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Originally Posted by ddt0725

One thing I did not see suggested here is self-defense training. I see classes advertised ever so often, some even geared specifically for women. I wonder if those help or give a person unrealistic (not sure if that is the word I'm looking for) confidence.
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Denise,


I did not think about this but I have seen local police departments offering self defense classes. You may check with you local police.


Mark

There are many types of criminals and pepper spray or putting self defence training to practical use would deter most of them but I tend to think in worse case senario situations. I believe it unlikely you

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Originally Posted by HDNitehawk

MAKE SURE you see it in writing from your agent that you are covered exactly the way you want.

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I wonder...if you 'intentionally' damage your own camera by using it to fend off an assailant, would that be covered under the policy?

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Originally Posted by neuroanatomist

I wonder...if you 'intentionally' damage your own camera by using it to fend off an assailant, would that be covered under the policy?

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I will have to re-read the fine print on that one.


But I think a swift blow to the head with a 70-200mm F2.8L II would stop many crooks in their tracks. Especialy if you can use the strap to swing it and really get alot of force behind it.


I wonder how CPS would feel when you sent the lens in to have the guys brains cleaned off of it.

The best self defense spray you can buy: www.defensedevices.com/worhotpepspr.html Fox Labs $17 to 20 bucks


5.3 million scoville heat units. Most others can't claim close to that. Get it anywhere on the skin and it burns. Get it on the face and your out of commission for hours. Was advised to get this as a second line of defense during my handgun lic test. Youtube it and there are people that actually spray this stuff into there face. Will send a 300lbs man to the ground in a few seconds.


I advise getting the the flip top as you never want this to go off by accident. Friend that took the gun class with me bought some and had it accidently go off in his pocket with just a squirt and he had to pull over, get out of the car, pull all his cloths off and find a garden hose. It just got on his leg and he said it was awful.


I'd almost be willing to use it over a gun as there is a lot less trouble with the law afterwards and the court system. Also has a dye in it so the perp can be identified later if he's picked up. I bought my sis and my mother the spray for their protection when they are out alone.





This stuff will spray 15 or 20 feet so you just have to get it close. I think it comes in either a stream or cone pattern where the stream spray has a little more distance. Fox Labs chem website:


http://foxlabs.com/pepperspray.shtml

i wonder if the bad guys ever use this stuff when attacking. seems like if one got sprayed by a skunk, you

If crooks spent as much energy on something productive in society as they do inventing ways to steal and cheat...I also worry aboutyour pepper spray being used against you. Sometimes you panic when you're scared more than you think, and that little delay of pulling out the spray could mean the difference. Be aware of your surroundings just as the rest have said and don't lapse just because you're with a friend or have some spray. I can't remember all the details, but we had an issue about thirty minutes from my house where someone broke into a house with a lady inside. She had a gun in the house and panicked with it. He took it out of her hands and beat her unconscious with it. Things went downhill from there. Living in fear is not really living at all. Just be aware reguardless of where you are. That will give you time to get all your "ducks in a row".

That is what has me worried the most about having a gun or spray. That something will go wrong and it will do me more harm than good having it! Hands shaking in fear &amp;/or not being able to say, hey, wait a second the winds blowing the wrong way! With your fear being at its highest level, I don

Your not supposed to flip him over. You want to blow out his knees with your two heels when he grabs you from behind, then cover his face with makeup and lipstick and call the cops. Good times had by all:)

I prefer these moves instead ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjPUsgOTwKI

Here

Already in the pipeline erno, except the taser is built into the new twin probe flash, the 580 exll magnum.


And the pepper spray is being built into the new 24-120mmF4.0 IS (instant squirt).


Also working on a concealed bayonet for Manstabbo monopod.


No word on delivery dates but will let everyone know as soon as stock is available.


I would offer my services as a model/bodyguard for Denise, but I tend to cry in stressful situations. But that

Okay.. Without turning Denise into a lethal weapon, let me offer my two cents.


Denise I'm going to assume you have all of your receipts for your camera gear? INSURANCE. I pay $30 a year.. $8,000 worth of camera gear so far. Without getting into personal defense too much, the best policy is to co-operate. (although I probably wouldn't fall under that category. [6])


I had a buddy of mine get his 5D stolen. He had a new one a month later. It's what made me realize I needed to do the same. Also a great idea because, unless I'm mistaken, auto insurance has a limit on the amount of personal property it will replace. So if you ever have another scare with your Murano and an entire bag of camera gear gets taken, it's likely your policy won't cover all of your loses.





Best of luck to you!





-Rocco

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Originally Posted by ddt0725

The cracking him over the head with my 7d and 100-400mm sounds like my best option!
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Here's an idea.....


Bring a monopod with you, and hang it from your belt. Have the first extension out.


This monopod now becomes an "asp."


You know what an asp is, don't you? It's a police baton.


Yank that thing off your hip, swing it across the chins or the arms (swing hard), and it'll drop your assailant to his knees.


Very effective, and you won't have to apologize to anyone for using it.


Then, your precious camera and lens will not have to be sacrificed.


Alan

I am sure this has been said before but the simple truth is relying on using your camera gear or mono pod as a weapon is a last resort even for me and Im 5