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Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
"B&H has the Canon EOS 1D Mark IV in stock. Add the 1D IV to your cart now and check out at 8:15 PM EDT tonight when B&H reopens for orders." Why, why, why? Recently I have been content with my kit--I do have lots of good stuff---But deep down inside, I really, really want the 1DIV, but...Like I said, I have been content knowing thata new1DIV has beenOut of stock or difficult to get ---Now just about the time a I am fairly happy, Bryan goes and shows us this. And for only $4999 it too can be mine ;) After the 500mm and the 50 f1.2 this year, I think it is best to keep the wallet closed and not even hint to the wife that I am considering the 1DIV-She would probably make me sleep in my doghouse blind that is currently set up in the back yard. (Hmmm, wonder what kind of deal I could get on a second mortgage?). I have no real purpose for this post other than to vent to someone who might understand---Please forgive me.
Seriously, Bryan noted some good deals on the Canon refurb site--and he is correct, several really good deals on lenses. So if your in the market, check out Canons refurb site.
Bob
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
You just had to go and bring that up, didn't you, Bob... I keep talking myself out of the 1DIV. I'm trying to hold out for a forthcoming difficult decision - 500L or 1DsIV (when it comes). I'm sure you recall that wallet of mine...well, it's pretty fat, not quite to 500L thickness yet (and 4 bills down from the PowerShot S100 that I just pre-ordered), but there's just enough in there to cover a 1DIV.
RESIST. DO NOT CLICK <span style="color: #0000ff;"]BUY. Or so I keep telling myself...
Good luck!
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
yhea, i have been craving for the 1DIV for long time.not spending too much on the body has been my bottom line. i couldn
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroanatomist
I keep talking myself out of the 1DIV.
Keep Talking to yourself John, the 1D IV is the only thing I have that you don't, you are a hard man to keep up with. :) The 1Ds IV is going to be beyond my wallet for some time, although I do covet one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroanatomist
DO NOT CLICK <span style="color: #0000ff;"]BUY. Or so I keep telling myself...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJphoto
i should have got it when i had chance for 4 grand.
Seriously, John and JJ, if you can do it go for it. I must have missed the 4 grand sale, but I was debating last November (after wanting one since the announcement) if I could justify the price and I took the plunge. I am glad I did. the 1D IV is awesome! The shots I got during this summer's soccer season justified my purchase. I cannot compare it to the 7D as I have never shot a frame with one. Maybe you guys will do the comparison. I find John's tests very insightful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJphoto
the only thing i can do now is keep asking myself
take better pictures with the 7D/500mm untill good enough that worth the
upgrade
I will not say you can take better pictures with it, there are many TDP members taking outstanding images with Rebel series bodies. That is the carpenter vs. the hammer argument. What you will get is different capabilities, the first one being the speed with which you can shoot fast moving sports -- my personal main concern. I also used my 1D IV instead of my 5D II for my daughter's dance recital this year because it focuses better/faster in low light. As far as image quality, that is more in your hands. The 7D yields great results by all accounts I have seen. I recently put an album together of @400 images from our summer and I used my 50D, 5D II and 1D IV with various glass for all those images. No one looking at this album even considered asking if I used different bodies, the images were all equally good.
I will add that in order to get the high speed bursts you need the fast CF cards. I use the SanDisk ExtremePro and Lexar Professional 600x 90MB/s cards and I do not have any issues. I have used the 400x 60MB/s versions I have on occasion, but I will hit the buffer with them. If I am shooting sports I make sure I have the fast cards in.
I was thinking this summer of starting a discussion on "If you could only Have One body, Which One?" I may still do that this fall, but for now for me the short answer is my 1D IV. If you go for it, you will not regret it.
Chris
EDITED: corrected incorrect memory card speed rating
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Bob,
I am sorry I did not mean to leave you out, especially since you first raised the question. See my post above, and then hit the <span style="color: #0000ff;"]BUY<span style="color: #0000ff;"]. I just checked, B&H still has them available. ;P
My personal view is if you will use it and you can afford it, get it.
Chris
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris White
Bob,
I am sorry I did not mean to leave you out, especially since you first raised the question. See my post above, and then hit the
<span style="COLOR: #0000ff"]BUY<span style="COLOR: #0000ff"]. I just checked, B&H still has them available. ;P
My personal view is if you will use it and you can afford it, get it.
Chris
<div style="CLEAR: both"]</div>
No problem Chris. I also checked out B&H thisAM hoping they would be sold out----They were not :( which further tempted me.....But I must control myself, I must, I must , I must..........I have nice glass, accessories etc and the 7D is an awesome body so I will hold out for now and let the wife splurge a little. (thats been our little secret)---I got my 500 this year and she got her beach house vacation at about the same cost---Next year she want's to go to the Tetons and Yellowstone---maybe that will be my leverage for the 1DIV :)
Wish me luck,
Bob
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Williams
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris White
Bob,
I am sorry I did not mean to leave you out, especially since you first raised the question. See my post above, and then hit the
<span style="color: #0000ff;"]BUY<span style="color: #0000ff;"]. I just checked, B&H still has them available. ;P
My personal view is if you will use it and you can afford it, get it.
Chris
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>
No problem Chris. I also checked out B&H thisAM hoping they would be sold out----They were not :( which further tempted me.....But I must control myself, I must, I must , I must..........I have nice glass, accessories etc and the 7D is an awesome body so I will hold out for now and let the wife splurge a little. (thats been our little secret)---I got my 500 this year and she got her beach house vacation at about the same cost---Next year she want's to go to the Tetons and Yellowstone---maybe that will be my leverage for the 1DIV :)
Wish me luck,
Bob
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>
Bob,
Let's face it, it is usually glass, glass, glass. That is mentioned in many body vs. lens querries for advise. In addition at 8fps, the 7D is no slouch either. I was starting for scratch for the sports shooter and was able to grab the 1D IV. For me it was the right choice. And a lot of what I see you shoot is wildlife/landscape, I do not know if you need the extra frame rates or burst. However, soccer for 10U and up -- my slowest class has moved to girls 12U, I use the 10fps and the buffer. Those girls play intense and they move.
And if you and the wife have nice comprise going, why ruin it? It sounds like a good "everyone is happy" deal, and those are the best for a long happy relationship.
I am grabbing my T1i -- my P/S option -- and taking the family and a few friends to the closing day of our local amusement park. That is the main purpose for my photography at this time. I know it is not the most exciting, but it means a lot to me and mine. That is what it is all about, the happiness part.
Good luck choosing what is best for you,
Chris
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroanatomist
You just had to go and bring that up, didn't you, Bob... I keep talking myself out of the 1DIV. I'm trying to hold out for a forthcoming difficult decision - 500L or 1DsIV (when it comes). I'm sure you recall that wallet of mine...well, it's pretty fat, not quite to 500L thickness yet (and 4 bills down from the PowerShot S100 that I just pre-ordered), but there's just enough in there to cover a 1DIV.
RESIST. DO NOT CLICK <span style="color:#0000ff;"]BUY. Or so I keep telling myself...
Good luck!
You may not be looking at this the right way John....
The 1D IV will replace your 7D
The 1Ds IV will replace your 5D II
This is my plan, provided the 1Ds IV isn't $11,000 which it vary well may be. Sell my two 5D's and 24-70mm and put the money towards a 1Ds IV if it is ever released...hopefully without a 35% markup over the old version this will make sense. If it is to expensive it will make a new 5D III / 1D IV kit look allot better.
All this is speculation of course, talking about things that do not exist in the market yet.
A person needs both a 1D IV and a 1Ds IV, this kind of thinking will keep wallets thin
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris White
I will not say you can take better pictures with it, there are many TDP members taking outstanding images with Rebel series bodies. That is the carpenter vs. the hammer argument.
I will take the hammer over the carpenter point of view on this one. The 1D IV is going to improve the pictures of a person with limited skills. WHY? The AF system of the 1D IV is superior to the 7D and 5D II, so the keeper rate of the person with limited skills is going to increase. Second the pics out of the 1D IV require less work in post processing than a 7D's, so a person with limited PP skills will have pics which require less work.
At a certain time of my life I claimed "carpenter" as my profession. As a carpenter you want the best tools despite your skill level, Better tools make it easier to build with. The same goes for camera equipment, better tools make it easier. It won't make you a master carpenter though.
The 1D IV is a worthy upgrade. Is it worth $3500 more than the 7D though? I think everyone's answer would vary depending on their situation. My answer was yes, but more peoples answer would be no.
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNitehawk
The 1D IV is a worthy upgrade. Is it worth $3500 more than the 7D though? I think everyone's answer would vary depending on their situation. My answer was yes, but more peoples answer would be no.
I agree. Most of us here do not make a full time living with our cameras, so for most of us, this isn't a business decision, it's a "desire" decision. We desire the camera, we desire a chance to improve our keeper rate and we desire to have the best (depending on your genre) and....there is a little bit of "Hey Guys---Lookie what I got in the mail today" so, really it's just a matter of finances (unless your wealthy)---Is this camera worth what you will have to sacrifice in the future---for many of us, this answer is yes, for others--no----But ultimately, and for the purposes of many, the 1DIV is just an awesome piece of equipment. Second to only one otherSLR and that would be this:
[img]/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files/24/1348.new_5F00_canon_5F00_camera_5F00_.jpg[/img]
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Williams
But ultimately, and for the purposes of many, the 1DIV is just an awesome piece of equipment. Second to only one otherSLR and that would be this:
<div style="CLEAR: both"]</div>
lol... I want your version of a camera. It comes with button for beer & pizza, and then to top it off... it tells you when to take a pee break.
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris White
the 1D IV is awesome!
No doubt. I know the AF would be better than the 7D and 5DII, and the IQ is excellent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNitehawk
You may not be looking at this the right way John....
The 1D IV will replace your 7D
The 1Ds IV will replace your 5D II
That's pretty much how I've been looking at it - but both a 1D IV and a 1Ds IV are a budgetary impossibility at this point, even considering sale of the 5DII, 7D, and 17-55mm. The problem I face with switching out the 7D for the 1DIV is that my 7D is used primarily with the 100-400mm, and I'm not quite willing to give up the 640mm equivalent for 520mm equivalent. If I already had a 500/4, it would be a different story. Of my shots with the 7D (since getting the 5DII),90% have been with the 100-400mm, and 80% of those have been at 400mm. So, that suggests that I need the length, and the 7D + 500/4 would be a good choice.
The 1Ds IV would definitely replace my 5DII. Honestly, I'm leaning toward the 1DsIV over the 500/4. Looking at my shots since getting the 5DII, ~90% of them have been with the 5DII, 10% with the 7D. So, overall, I'd probably derive the most benefit from a 1Ds IV. But the 500/4 would be a lot of fun...
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNitehawk
The 1D IV is a worthy upgrade. Is it worth $3500 more than the 7D though? I think everyone's answer would vary depending on their situation. My answer was yes, but more peoples answer would be no.
I agree too. and my answer is probably no. Oh, isn't that DIGIC5 coming? that sounds a better excuse for getting a 1DV?
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroanatomist
So, overall, I'd probably derive the most benefit from a 1Ds IV. But the 500/4 would be a lot of fun...
Like always John, you analyzed your possible decision very well:
Improve your Kit - vs-Lots of Fun
Here is somthing to keep in mind to, with the "Lots of Fun"option. Wimberly Head, New Gitzo 5541LSTripod Legs,Wimberlybrackets to hold your flash above the lens, Lens Coat, Dedicated Backpack for the 500mm, Canon's CP, Gitzo Monopod, Wimberly Plate, Quick Release for Mono-pod, Better Beamer and....I am sure I am forgetting something.
Personally I like the "Lot of Fun" option. But lets be honest,isn't it really "which one do I buy first?"
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroanatomist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris White
the 1D IV is awesome!
No doubt. I know the AF would be better than the 7D and 5DII, and the IQ is excellent.
If you were a full time pro sportsphotographer or something in that trend, the difference in AF would be noticeable. But is it really worth the money. I honestly doubt it. I still don't think the 5D2 holds me back when shooting sports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroanatomist
Honestly, I'm leaning toward the 1DsIV over the 500/4
I just rented the 400mm f2.8L IS for the weekend and I can tell you this. A lens of this calibre will do more for you than a camerabody "upgrade". The image quality, AF and sharpness of the lens I rented are simply insane. They make the 100-400 feel like a nifty-fifty. It is quite a big thing to take on your bicycle though :O
I personally feel that the only reason for me to buy a super expensive 1D IV or 1Ds Iv would be if I had all the super tele's already ;)
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Paalman
I just rented the 400mm f2.8L IS for the weekend and I can tell you this. A lens of this calibre will do more for you than a camerabody "upgrade". The image quality, AF and sharpness of the lens I rented are simply insane. They make the 100-400 feel like a nifty-fifty. It is quite a big thing to take on your bicycle though :O
I personally feel that the only reason for me to buy a super expensive 1D IV or 1Ds Iv would be if I had all the super tele's already
I hear you, Jan. On both ends - while I don't really want all the supertele's, a couple would sure be nice. You mentioned the weight of the 400/2.8, and that's an issue with the 500/4 as well. My shooting with the 100-400mm usually involves quite a bit of hiking - parking the car, walking a few steps, setting up a tripod/gimbal head and waiting for the birds to come just isn't my style. I have some concerns about hanging the 11.5 lbs / 5.2 kg of gripped 7D + 500/4 from a BlackRapid strap on my shoulder, and walking for a few miles. The 10 lbs / 4.5 kg of the body + 500/4 II is slightly better (helped by the loss of $3500 in 'weight' from my wallet), but a far cry from the 6 lbs / 2.7 kg of the body + 100-400mm. Thus the lens dilemma. The other part of that dilemma is that the current 500/4 is a fine lens, and while I expect some modest improvement with the MkII (perhaps more with TCs), the real difference is probably the weight Is that worth $3500? It's a tough decision, especially if the situation with the 300/400 II's repeats (i.e. close to the availability of the MkII's, the MkI's are no longer available anywhere - means you need to make a decision before the MkII is actually available). That's combined with the fact that I do most of my shooting with the 5DII, and while the AF is ok, having used the 7D I know how much difference a better AF makes, and the 1-series AF is a substantial improvement on the 7D. So...the debate continues. I've got time, as I won't be making a decision until the 1DsIV is actually announced, and at that point, we'll see how 'full' my proverbial wallet has become...
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
I would also recommend having one or two super-telephotos before taking the plunge on a 1D MKIV or the next generation 1D body.
Personally, I think the 7D is very, very good. The 7D focuses and tracks more than fast enough and the images out of it are spectacular and I don't think anyone would complain about the extra reach. Sure the MKIV is a step up, but it's not a huge step up in my opinion. The images out of the MKIV may be slightly creamier overall, but nothing that some PP can't take care of. I think the difference is minimal. I would say that if a cloud came out and went in front of the Sun, then that would have a bigger impact on the overall quality of the image, then if someone were shooting with a 7D or a MKIV.
Of course the weather sealing of the MKIV is a major improvement over the 7D if you tend to shoot in inclement weather. I also think that the MKIV is better in shooting in lower light with less noise if someone needs that capability, but with the excellent noise reduction software out there, this result can be duplicated on the computer.
If I had to pick one reason to get a MKIV it would be to capture "peak action" which is what action photography is all about.
For example if you are trying to get a shot of a volleyball player spiking the ball, then you will have a better chance of getting the peak action image with the MKIV. Lets say that you want the player to be as high as possible over the net with his or her arm fully extended with the ball in the frame with just the right expression on their face as they're generating all of this power right before the spike, then the MKIV will be better for that because it shoots a faster frame rate. Lets say that the 7D may get 3 great shots of the spike and the MKIV may get 4 great shots of the spike. The MKIV will capture the "in between shots" that the 7D may miss and if that extra shot that the MKIV captures is the best one, then that's where it's value lies.
Other examples may be of a soccer player kicking the ball over their head with a bicycle kick, or a football kicker kicking a field goal and you're trying to get the ball in the frame coming off of his leg. If you're looking for the "peak moment" then the MKIV will capture an extra frame or two. For surfing, I find the MKIV better at capturing the surfer at the apex of the wave or at the height of a jump, or it could be as simple as their eyes looking into the lens.
That doesn't mean that the 7D can't capture these peak action shots, because it certainly can, however the MKIV just gives you that little bit of an edge in capturing that absolute peak moment.
Rich
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
WWhew----I checked the B&H Website today for the 1DIV and this is what I found: <span class="red"]<span style="color: #b80505;"]Temporarily unavailable
Imanaged to hold off for four days, Problem solved....... for the moment.
Bob
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Lane
I would also recommend having one or two super-telephotos before taking the plunge on a 1D MKIV or the next generation 1D body.
Jan and RIch, I think this advice is dead on. After I bought the 500mm my concept of the camera body changed, to me the camera body is an accessory to the lens. Rather than the lens being an accessory to the camera.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Lane
Sure the MKIV is a step up, but it's not a huge step up in my opinion.
Everything you said is dead on with your comparison.
What is hard is to quantifythe "Step Up". What may be a small step up for one person may be a large for another. I did allot of test comparing the 1D IV to the 7D and 5D II AF system when I first got it. I set it up on LensAlign, and did real world comparisons. What I found is that the 1D IV system is superior to both, overall I gained 2 pictures in 10 both static and moving that were keepers. Of course it was easier to compare static with the LensAlign than with moving subjects, the moving subjects were much more subjective. Overall I would say about a 20% improvement with the AF system.
Is it a small step or a huge step? To me it is somewhere in between because if I am out in the woods and miss a defining shotduring the day I have lost nothing but my time. However if I made a living with the camera and I missed the defining shot, the the step up is a "huge" deal.
Nowto do a little bit of layman'smath, if I used the 20% formula and say that the number of pics that are exceptional increased 20%. On average when I take the 500mm out I come back with several hundred pics, of those several hundred because of un-coopartive animals and my inadequacies I end up with 10 or so on average that are good enough to keep. Maybe only a few that I would show someone. So...based on 10 pics and lets say I go out once every weekend. That would be 520 keepers a year. Lets say the life span of the camera is 3 years (which it should be more) 3 x 520=1560 keepers. 1560 X 20% =312 additional keepers. Now take the additional money the 1D IV costs, $3,500 / 312 =$11.22 per additional keeper.
$11.22 per additional keeper....makes the 7D look pretty good.
But then there is this formula( (500mm + 1D IV) x play time) = "Lots of Fun".
I went the"Lot's ofFun" route. Maybe I will get better and I can improve on the $11.22 per additional keeper price.
Rick
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Lane
I also think that the MKIV is better in shooting in lower light with less noise if someone needs that capability, but with the excellent noise reduction software out there, this result can be duplicated on the computer.
I agree with everything except this, unfortunately I could not duplicate this in the computer. If the noise is lowerto the next camera, no amount of noise reduction will make them the same with the same amount of deitail.
Fortunately because of finiacial constraints, I probably won't be able to buy it untill the 1D V comes out. And if I did a 600mmor 800mm is coming before the body.
John.
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
@Rick, I agree the fun factor is definitely there. Just the sound of the MKIV shutter going off at 10 frames/sec is worth the price of admission. (Hey what happened to our little smiley faces? :-)
@John, I understand where you're coming from regarding noise reduction and the key is not to overdo it, but Topaz denoise does a pretty good job at retaining detail, while attempting to just target the noise. Sometimes the image even looks like it "appears" to have more detail after the noise is filled in since the image appears less grainy. I understand that it's really not adding detail, it's just filling in what are brains are expecting to see.
Rich
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroanatomist
You mentioned the weight of the 400/2.8, and that's an issue with the 500/4 as well.
Yes the weight of the 400mm f2.8L is quite hard to ignore. Honestly handholding this lens to shoot a still object is very, very intensive. Almost to the point of impossible. Especially when we're talking about longer periods of time(>5mins continues). The 500mm however is 1,5kg/3,3lbs lighter. The new version is even lighter. That would make a huge difference. I haven't held one of these, but I bet that that difference would make it hand holdable to me.
For moving objects however(like airshows) I found the weight to be less of an issue. Still it was hurting a lot between the shoulders after a day of shooting, but it was doable. Again, I think the benefit of the 500mm's weight would be a huge difference from the 400mm.I'm not sure if the price of the new 500mm II is justifiable to the weight reduction, but the 400mm II would certainly be worth the extra cash versus the "old" 400mm 2.8L.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroanatomist
The other part of that dilemma is that the current 500/4 is a fine lens, and while I expect some modest improvement with the MkII (perhaps more with TCs), the real difference is probably the weight Is that worth $3500?
As I said, I'm not sure about this. I think you should use the 500mm I and see what you think before trying the number II and get spoiled :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroanatomist
My shooting with the 100-400mm usually involves quite a bit of hiking - parking the car, walking a few steps, setting up a tripod/gimbal head and waiting for the birds to come just isn't my style. I have some concerns about hanging the 11.5 lbs / 5.2 kg of gripped 7D + 500/4 from a BlackRapid strap on my shoulder, and walking for a few miles.
While I wasn't really hiking last weekend, some trips required quite a bit of long distant walks. And I believe that the tripod mount is a very nice handle to carry the lens. I wouldn't mind walking more than half an hour with it. However I wouldn't really enjoy it either ;)
Again the weight of the 500mmL's or 400mmL II would be significantly less, so it might not be as bad as you think. PS, forget about the blackrapid thing, you're probably not going to use it with a tele lens like this.
Oh and for the tripod thing. My tripod wasn't really strong enough to carry the 400mm's weight. However my cheap Jinbei JB-300 Lightstand with my free Redged RT-2 Ballhead, was a surprisingly good combination! While it probably wasn't usable for long exposure shots, it served very well as a tripod/monopod. Plus it can get up to 2.8m/9ft of height, which is pretty cool ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Lane
That doesn't mean that the 7D can't capture
these peak action shots, because it certainly can, however the MKIV just
gives you that little bit of an edge in capturing that absolute peak
moment.
Good point Rich, you're absolutely right on these in between shots. If I was getting paid for my photos this would be a huge thing to consider. However if you're just shooting for fun or something, a lot of actions repeat and you get more than one chance to get that in between shot. That's also something to consider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Williams
WWhew----I checked the B&H Website today for the 1DIV and this is what I found: <span class="red"]<span style="color: #b80505;"]Temporarily unavailable
Imanaged to hold off for four days, Problem solved....... for the moment.
Lucky you Bob! Hehe :)
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Re: Bryan, Why do you do this to me?
