Youth Sports and Macbook Pro, Mac book Air, Ipad2 or Something Else

I have been toying around with the idea for a new business. "Youth Sports Photography" I went and shot a couple of games and have had a couple of sales and this idea is starting to generate interest and invitations to shoot more games. The idea is to shoot action only at live games. I have been to several youth, jr. high and high school football games but haven't seen any photogrpahers on the field. So I shot a couple of games and published the good shots on my webpage via password. I passed out the access info to parents and coaches and am starting to get some calls and invitations to shoot more games.


The basic Idea: Quality photos of your kid in action on the field


The method: I shoot the game, process the images and upload to Zenfolio, and the parents can decide what shots they want and what media to present them on. i.e. photos, coffee cups, t-shirts, wall stickers, etc


This seems to be a popular idea among the few parents and coaches i have had contact with but not really enough to justify the time and expense---


What I would like to do is display photos as I shoot or even display example photos on the field via slide show and would like your ideas of the best way to present images and slide shows in the field.


I am a PC user, so thats all I know, but you Mac guys have peaked my ineterest so I am considering one of the Macs for two reasons----1. I am curious to see if they are as good as many of you say and: 2. I need a platform I can easily transport, has good battery life, displays images well in sunlight and can take the rigors of this type of use.


The Mac Book Pro looks very good, but it's pricey.


The Macbook Air also looks good, but I question the speed of its performance and storage capacity and is it "Tough-Enough" to do this kind of work---It just looks fragile


The I-Pad looks very convenient, but again, 64 gig isn't much storage and I also question its survivability in the field.


So, for you guys that have experience with the Macs please give me your opinion.


If others have recommendations other than Mac, I would be interested in those as well.


Here are afew of shots of my last game, do you think parents would be willing to pay for this type of service?


http://rwilliamsimaging.com/img/v34/p229173747-4.jpg





http://rwilliamsimaging.com/img/v29/p74012908-4.jpg





http://rwilliamsimaging.com/img/v31/p468933759-4.jpg





http://rwilliamsimaging.com/img/v30/p601616076-4.jpg


http://rwilliamsimaging.com/img/v34/p157027948-4.jpg


Thanks for any assistance you can provide.


Bob

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Originally Posted by Bob Williams

I am considering one of the Macs for two reasons----1. I am curious to see if they are as good as many of you say and: 2. I need a platform I can easily transport, has good battery life, displays images well in sunlight and can take the rigors of this type of use.


The Mac Book Pro looks very good, but it's pricey.


The Macbook Air also looks good, but I question the speed of its performance and storage capacity and is it "Tough-Enough" to do this kind of work---It just looks fragile


The I-Pad looks very convenient, but again, 64 gig isn't much storage and I also question its survivability in the field.

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As a Dad with a bunch of good photo gear, I'd just take the pics myself. [:p]


But, as a Dad without fast cameras and big white lenses, I'd be inclined to purchase pics of the quality above - great shots, Bob. I think impulse is likely going to be important - that doesn't mean you need to have images on Zenfolio for purchase at the games (although that would be great), but I think it would be best to have pics of their kids to show parents on the spot, rather than just generic samples. Might be overestimating that, if you shoot the same team two weeks in a row, you'd have last week's pics up for parents to order on the spot.


I'd be hesitant to run the iPad for this. While it's possible to get images from a CF card to an iPad, it's kludgy - you'd need to connect a passive USB CF reader to the iPad Camera Connection Kit (and apparently that's problematic with some readers), or need to hook your camera to the connection kit via USB, and lose use of the camera during transfers.


The MacBook Pro is likely more than you need for this.


I think the MacBook Air would be a good compromise. It's light, thin, and convenient. You can get one with up to 256 MB of storage, which should be sufficient. Sometime soon, there will be Thnuderbolt CF readers, and with that you'll be able to transfer images at the fastest speed your cards can run; USB until then.


The performance of the Air is pretty good. The processor is slower, true...but for image processing, a lot of that is disk-intensive, and the speed of the SSD makes up for the slower processor (yes, a regular laptop with SSD would be faster, of course). IIRC, you use LR, but Aperture actually runs quite fast on the Air because it uses OpenCL (where the GPU is used for tasks traditionally run onthe CPU - and for operations where multithreading helps, like image processing, a GPU effectively has a couple of hundred 'cores' for those purposes, as long as the code can take advantage of them (LR cannot).


The 'toughness' of the Air is good. The unibody aluminum case is tough - it will dent, but that's often just cosmetic damage. The SSD helps a lot too, since dropping a spinning drive is bad. My wife dropped her aluminum PowerBook to the floor, it got the corner dented, still worked fine. I dropped my Compaq laptop to the same floor, the corner shattered and silicon pieces fell out - a dead laptop. The Macs also have some features you'll appreciate - if you've ever tripped over a power cord and pulled a machine down (that's how the Compaq died), the MagSafe power connector means that won't happen.


The display on the Air is bright enough to use outdoors during the day. Also, the backlit keyboard on the Air would be handy at night games.


Sounds like an interesting venture...good luck!


--John

Bob, isn't wearing a t-shirt with the name of your website on it a much cheaper and possibly a much better way to get attention?


I have done the kind of photography you talk about a lot of times and once you established a name, people know where to find your photos. It does help to have a catchy website name though. Your own name is more likely to be forgotten than www.youthsportsphotos.com or something similar.


Also having an expensive laptop somewhere on the field requires an extra eye or will decrease your moveability around the field.


Other than that, if I were a parent of one of the kids in your shots, I'd pay for #2(portrait orientated would be even better) and #4 and #5. But then I'm looking at them from my perspective. When I select my photos from a sports game I only take shots that I like(enough). The rest will never show, too bad for them, but since I don't ask money I can make my own rules ;)


Oh and if you have your laptop on you, people might run into you constantly, which slows you down a lot I think. It's better to have a set uploaded ASAP, preferably the day itself or the day after that, than spending too much time talking to parents :)

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Originally Posted by Bob Williams

so I am considering one of the Macs for two reasons----1. I am curious to see if they are as good as many of you say and

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You could try the Apple store for that ^^ a much cheaper option ;)





Anyway, this was my personal take on things. I never even saw an entire "football" game, so perhaps you've got plenty of time during the game...I don't know :P


Good luck Bob!

John, As usual , Great rationale. I have beeen leaning toward the macbook air anyway for my personal laptop---(i currently don't own a laptop, but lately I have been wishing I did for this and many other reasons)

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Originally Posted by neuroanatomist

but I think it would be best to have pics of their kids to show parents on the spot, rather than just generic samples. Might be overestimating that, if you shoot the same team two weeks in a row, you'd have last week's pics up for parents to order on the spot.

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Well, That's exactly what i am talking about, just something to do a little show&tell at halftime or maybe after the game. Just something to wet thier appatite a little and a quick opportunity to explain the service and pass out business cards.


Thanks,


Bob

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Originally Posted by Jan Paalman

Bob, isn't wearing a t-shirt with the name of your website on it a much cheaper and possibly a much better way to get attention?

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Jan, I agree, but i also think it would be nice for parents get a little taste of the service on the field----just to peak thier interest?

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Originally Posted by Jan Paalman

I have done the kind of photography you talk about a lot of times and once you established a name, people know where to find your photos. It does help to have a catchy website name though. Your own name is more likely to be forgotten than www.youthsportsphotos.com or something similar.

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That is really what i would prefer, but getting the name out there is the trick. I also agree with you about the Website name---If this little idea takes off, I will do exactly that.

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Originally Posted by Jan Paalman

Other than that, if I were a parent of one of the kids in your shots, I'd pay for #2(portrait orientated would be even better) and #4 and #5. But then I'm looking at them from my perspective. When I select my photos from a sports game I only take shots that I like(enough). The rest will never show, too bad for them, but since I don't ask money I can make my own rules ;)

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I probably didn't take the time I should have in post processing, these were shots from my first game and I was in a hurry to get them on the site while people were still thinking about them. Iprocessed about 1200 and only put 100 on my site----I too am little picky about what I put up. I did have a lot of shots of kids in less than starring roles, i.elinemanetc just so those parents would have something to look at and consider.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jan Paalman

Oh and if you have your laptop on you, people might run into you constantly, which slows you down a lot I think. It's better to have a set uploaded ASAP, preferably the day itself or the day after that, than spending too much time talking to parents :)

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I really wasn't planning on eating up game/shoot time with this---more of a halftime or after game idea----If it got to busy or if this was too overwhelming, I would ask my wife to employ her marketing skills:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jan Paalman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob Williams

so I am considering one of the Macs for two reasons----1. I am curious to see if they are as good as many of you say and

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You could try the Apple store for that ^^ a much cheaper option ;)

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I have seen all of these machines in the store and like all of them, I just wanted to get your guys opinion on them especially when using it for this type of activity.


Jan, all your points are solid and well taken, Thanks for the input,


Bob

Bob,


I have done a little of this for a couple of guys in my office who were coaching their sons just as a favor but while I was there with my 1D3 and the 300mm 2.8L lens I got alot of questions from parents and some offers of cash to take some pics of their kids after showing them some shots just on the camera LCD! If you have the time and interest I think you could make some bucks. (Just don

Bob,


I was at my son

Hi Bob,


For just showing the parents for viewing I would prefer to show them on an ipad. I just think it's a nicer experience with the touch screen, as there is no awkward holding of the laptop with a keypad and passing it to another person. I also think swiping to the next photo is nicer on the ipad. The ipad is limited to 64GB, but that should be enough for 1-2 games, unless you have a lead finger.


If you need a laptop for other uses then I would probably go for the Macbook Air. The Macbook Air used to be slow, but the new generation will be fast enough. The Macbook Air only goes up to 256GB, and 13inch screen is the maximum size. You could always add a USB thumb drive if you need extra space.


The Macbook Pro goes up to 17 inches which gets bulky and heavy but would work better if you set up a viewing booth or had it set on a table, but for hand-holding I think the 13 inch would be better. They also have the 15 inch to further confuse you. The Macbook Pro goes up to a 750GB, regular spinning hard drive. I have a 13 inch Macbook Pro with a 750GB hard drive and it adds a bit a weight to my bag, especially with all of my other equipment. One thing I will tell you is that the metal cases that enclose the MacBooks are very durable, but they are heavier than the plastic or composite laptops and they are "very slippery" when holding them. If you do get one then I would suggest that you get an after market rubber type case that will add some grip that you can leave attached while the laptop is open especially if other people will be handling it, but these can add some heat too


With all that said, I'm not sure that showing the parents the photos as you go will work. After the game is over then you will have to upload the photos, then sort through over 1000 or more photos that will be unedited just to find their kid and if you have a few people interested then there may be a lot of standing around and searching. During halftime, you usually need a break to go to the bathroom, get something to eat and/or shoot the halftime show. Remember, parents of the cheerleaders, kick-line team and the band may buy some photos too. From a marketing standpoint, I understand that some people will want instant gratification, but it also may be better to go home and edit the photos and show them the best ones online, especially while you're perfecting your craft. You will also be dealing with your big white lens, monopod and now you throw a laptop into the equation, it may be daunting. I think in reality you would have to go and put your equipment away after the game is over and then get the laptop out of the car, and then upload the photos, find the parents, find the photos and so on. I just don't think it will work, unless you had an assistant that you can pass the compact flash card to at half-time and then again at the end of the game.


Just to give you other options, there are also wireless compact flash cards that can wirelessly upload the photos to the laptop or the internet. For that you will also need a wireless internet service or you can tether it to a smart phone that has internet service. I don't have this setup, but I have heard about it.


I think you should start off slowly without investing too much money at first. There really isn't a lot of money to be made like this, but it's certainly a fun thing to do, and if you make some money then that will be nice bonus. If you would like to buy a laptop anyway, then that's a different story.


I assume you will have sideline access?


Rich

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Originally Posted by Joel Eade

If you have the time and interest I think you could make some bucks. (Just don't sacrifice your HB time!)


Joel

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Thanks Joel, I think so as well---and I WILL NOT sacrifice My Hummingbird time. Honestly I am leaning toward the Macbook air, but If I can find a good deal on a pro, I might go for it. They have some pretty good deals at the military exchange stores--I think I am going to hold off until December, that way i can buy whatever I decide on, rather than what I can afford.


Bob

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Originally Posted by Firephoto

The trick is passing the word out to as many people as possible and getting the pictures processed and posted fairly quickly. You could expand to cover more sports. Especially those tournaments.

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Brett, You bring up another valid point here---I would need something to continue with once football season is over---and for the kids here, that will be in two or three weeks, so tournaments, High school, soccer, baseball are all other great ideas, I just need to figure out how to get my foot in the door. Maybe I'll start asking around.


Thanks for that idea


Bob

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Originally Posted by Richard Lane

During halftime, you usually need a break to go to the bathroom, get something to eat and/or shoot the halftime show. Remember, parents of the cheerleaders, kick-line team and the band may buy some photos too. From a marketing standpoint, I understand that some people will want instant gratification, but it also may be better to go home and edit the photos and show them the best ones online, especially while you're perfecting your craft. You will also be dealing with your big white lens, monopod and now you throw a laptop into the equation, it may be daunting. I think in reality you would have to go and put your equipment away after the game is over and then get the laptop out of the car, and then upload the photos, find the parents, find the photos and so on. I just don't think it will work, unless you had an assistant that you can pass the compact flash card to at half-time and then again at the end of the game.

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Thanks Rich, for the dose of reality,I can envision all of the issues you and others talked about, The more I think about it, The more I realize this would have to be a two personjob, but even if that worked, you would be showing unedited or unscreened photos and i am very uncomfortable with that---So maybe a t-shirt and some business cards would be a better way to go---Of course, I could always use the laptop for other things:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Richard Lane

I think you should start off slowly without investing too much money at first. There really isn't a lot of money to be made like this, but it's certainly a fun thing to do, and if you make some money then that will be nice bonus. If you would like to buy a laptop anyway, then that's a different story.

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I don't plan on using or buying any equipment I didn't already have on my wish list, not unless this thing really grows.---Then I understand the 400 2.8 is the sideliners lens of choice:) But that is only a fantasy at this point.

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Originally Posted by Richard Lane

I assume you will have sideline access?

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Actually, I have been working off of invitation only so far. But I did go down and get my business license this week and apply for "authorized vendor" pass with the league just to add some legitamacy to the operation. So I really won't have unrestricted access to youth football until next season. I had considered the same with the school district, but many of their games are at night and I really don't have the equipment for that.


Thanks,


Bob