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Let me start out by saying I'm debating if this is even worth pursuing. I own a XSI. I've begun to get a little deeper into photography. I know the best gear in the world doesn't make your picture any better than that of the photographers eye. With that said, two questions
-is upgrading to a better camera worth the investment?
-is it worth going 1.0x crop if I upgrade? (T3i vs 60D vs 5DIi)
The lens(es) you use are likely to have a much bigger impact than the camera. So, the general advice is to spend money on better lenses before upgrading the camera.
It also helps to know what you shoot. For example, comparing the T2i, T3i, 60D, and 7D, they all have the same sensor. There are other differences, of course, but if you primarily shoot landscapes from a tripod, those differences won't mean much to you. Likewise, if you want to shoot fast-paced action, I'd recommend the 7D over the 5DII, but for portraits, just the opposite.
There are other considerations, for example if you are shooting mostly landscapes but don't have a tripod, a good one will make more of a difference than a new camera or lens.
So...it might to know a bit more about what you like to shoot, and what else you're shooting with...
Hey Jfindley,
If you dont have the glass.... upgrading isnt going to do you much good. Just my opinion.
Personally, I have had an XSi and 50D for about 2-3 years now. I have considered on multiple occasions to upgrade the body, but then thought better of it and bought new and better lenses instead. I can honestly say that the glass has had much more impact on my work than a body would have.
A good question might be, what glass are you working with right now? Also, what are your pursuits as far as shooting goes? Those two questions might help us answer your question a bit better.
Dave.
haha... neuro you beat me to it!!!!
Drats!
Seems like alot of people considering upgrades lately...must be the time of year...
I agree with both Dave and John (Neuro); glass should be a primary concern for upgrades before the body. But to take a bit of a different point of view, if you don't find yourself limited by your body, then you probably don't need to upgrade yet. When you find there are specific things you are lacking with the XSi then you can better evaluate what you need in an upgrade. Ie. better AF would tend to lead to a 7D and better high iso generally leads to 5DII. Is there anything about the XSi that you find limiting?
For reference, I have an XSi that I have used for years (since introduction) and am only now upgrading (actually I just ordered a 7D two days ago). I got great use out of the XSi and bought several lenses before pulling the trigger on the 7d. But finally I got frustrated with the AF of the XSi when shooting anything that moves (ie. pets). I'm also looking forward to many other things as well (weathersealing, better iso/noise performance, better build, AFMA, etc, etc.) I considered the 5DII as well, but just couldn't justify the cost (especially since I would have to sell my EF-S lens and buy a different walk-around lens) considering I'm just a weekend shooter.
Hope this helps.
Stephen
Good points all. 2x NFLD Stephen. I have a T3i and having a great time fooling around with the video capabilties. Glad I have the 3ti for the video capabilities and the same sensor as the 7D for still images. HOWEVER, AF is an issue, I say this for the purpose of pointing to the B&H deal on the 7D anounced a day or two ago. $1,500 w/ 18-135. Oooofff all the AF functions of the 7D and other nifty things hmmmmm.
My photo "concerns" right now are autofocus and glass - I have the 15-85, 50 1.8, and the 70-200 mkII. Image quality from the improved glass is just the jaw dropper. I suspect my next lense is going to be the 16-35 L, and i will "sneaker zoom" the 35 50 and 50-70 range for awhile.
I could solve the AF with a body change out from the T3i to the 7D. I most certainly will change out he 3Ti body in the reasonably near future, my growing investment in glass will dwarf the cost of the body change out. Canon seems to be moving alot of inventory - perhaps there is another body anouncement in the near future - the kits for the 5d and 7d seem to be flying fast and furious. (either that or they didn't sell much the last 11 months).
Thanks all for the quick replies. Let me expand on my gear a little more.
70-200mm f4 L IS
15-85 mm f3.5-5.6
50 mm f1.8
18-55 mm (kit lense)
I find that I do 98% of my shooting outdoors. And since I live in Seattle, water tightness is a concern. Basically I love my XSI, but I don't feel comfortable taking out when it's damp.
In that case, a 7D makes sense. But, you'd also probably need a wider sealed lens. Perhaps the 17-40mm or 24-105mm, depending on how wide you like to shoot (check your EXIF from the 15-85mm).
The 7D has the best sealing outside of the 1-series (rank order is 1-series >> 7D > 5DII = 50/60D).
Thanks neuro. This takes me back to the 1.0x vs 1.6x crop. Is the 7D better all around even though it's a 1.6 crop or does it jus seal better?
It really just depends on your needs. For shooting birds and other fast-moving subjects, the 7D will be better because it has better AF. For still subjects and shooting in low light where you need to bump up the ISO, the 5DII will be better.
Well I posted this debate a while ago, and kind of sat on my xsi without making a decision to upgrade. Now that it's summer time, I'm picking up my camera a lot more. A great thing. I think I'm ready to pull the trigger on an upgrade, but still don't know which way to proceed. I'm to the point where I think go big or go home might be a good way to go about it. If I got the new mk5dIII, it should cover my needs for a few years to come. I would have to add to my lens list, thinking the 24-70 F2.8L lense would be a good match for the 15-85 that I already own and won't be able to use if I do go 5D. On the other hand, seeing that canon upgrades every few years I'm wondering if a 60D upgrade is in works. It could meet my needs if it were to get some of the improved features that have been recently released on the Canon sets of DSLR's. Anyone have a gut feel on any 60D activitiy (other than the 60Da)?
Canon seems to be flinging new bodies into the market at a very rapid pace right now. May be a sign of production getting itself sorted out after last year. Even so, if it hasn't been announced and released who knows when an updated product will appear these days. It will take a bit of time to recoup all the development costs of everything recently brought into the marketplace.
5D3 is an excellent body. Have replaced my 7D and 5D2 bodies with it. Superior AF by far, amongst other improvements, with IQ slightly ahead of 5D2 and no loss of resolution. If you can swing it financially and want to take the leap I'd recommend it highly.
If most of what you photogragh is relatively still, the 5D2 still works very well. Just doesn't like faster moving targets.
The differences in the 18 MP C sized bodies are quite well covered in Bryan's reviews if there are features missing from your XSi that have become must-haves. 7D is the only one of the lot I had. used it for the AF system, not image quality.
The question is: would you like to upgrade your equipment or improve you photographs?
If it’s the latter, then the next question is: how? Most of the times, the amateur concern about resolution, vignetting, distortion and so on is nonsense. As you have pointed out, a camera doesn’t make photographs, photographers do.
You already have an excellent gear, stretch it to the limit. Try to reproduce pictures from photographers you like, take part in contests, travel, make illustrated reports as if you were working for a magazine (even with a deadline). There are many ways you can push yourself to improve your pictures and also develop your own criteria about what it’s a good picture. Then nobody but you will be able to know if you need another camera or lens.
True, but note that the dominant issue in this thread is things like autofocus and weathersealing. No matter how good a photographer is, the photographer does not control autofocus. The camera body and lens do. So, a 7D or 5D3 would be a better tool than the XSI if autofocus, for example, is your main issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agilulfo
The Ansell Adamses of this world would have had a hard time nailing the focus on a moving subject.
I just recently contemplated the same question, moving from a T1i to something a bit better.
While the T1i has served me well I had some of the very same concerns that you have mentioned, particularly the sealing since most of my shooting is done outdoors. I ended up with a 60d (just this weekend), 24-105 combo that I am so far loving. In addition to the sealing, the ergonomics, top lcd, and decreased shutter delay/increased fps are providing a much different experience than my Rebel. I haven't really had much of a chance to note the differences in focusing and metering as of yet but from what I have read I should see an improvement. So far zero regrets on the purchase.
I had considered the 7d but at the end of the day the 60d accomplished most of what I was looking for. I wasn't ready to step into 5d territory, but I'm sure the mkIII, 24-70 setup would be an amazing alternative.
This wanders on purpose - read it with humor :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jfindley
You live in such an area for landscape and nature photography - urban lifestyles are also available - what a "dynamic range" you have within a few hours - GREAT FOR YOU! Much of it reasonably comfortable temperature wise (can you tell it is stupid hot & humid in Orlando...)
I am in the same thought process - I bought the T3i as a test or transitional body to see where my return to photo led - well not to high frame rate, uber low light - more landscaping, macro work, time lapse, and a surprising amount of video - I usually do a video clip of the family creatures instead of the posed posse pic for example.
I am tossing and turning between the 5dii and 5diii (occasional bouts of Danny Browning & jumping do Niko-land D800).
I don't see the value in upgrading to a better crop sensor - sort of a waste of a trip. Full Frame, and either 24-70 or 24-105 w/ a prime or two for the ultra sharpness. The bother for me is the 5dii dated feature set - even the T4i squeezes an extra stop of ISO out of the Digic 5 processor.....(does it really do that much/any better in ISO 200, 125th land?)
I am not disappointed with the IQ of the T3i - at times I find it just plain great when I get the exposure right, focus, etc all lined up.
If you are not going high frame rate - I would put down the 7d/60d and pick up the 5dii. 60d good body -same sensor as the t2i,t3i,t4i,60d,7d - what features are you buying for which $$$.
Canon just laid out the double rebate on lens + body for the 7d or 60d (read new body coming soon). "Next Month" is always the better time to by any electronics. For what it is worth, I watched several 5dii+24-105 with effectively no use roll through fleabay the other night for $2,300 - equates to $1,450 for the body and $850 for the lens. Oooof it got awful tempting.
First, photographer can control autofocus selecting the focusing point. And there is a second level of control, very interesting in my opinion: turn autofocus off.Quote:
Originally Posted by thekingb
Second, when I say stretch to the limit I mean questions like how many pictures did you miss because of the autofocus? Did you try every possible configuration of the autofocus system? Did you try manual focus? Did you take pictures under heavy rain often enough to need a 2.000$ camera? A 50$ rain cover or a plastic bag with a hole would be sufficient?
Unless you can answer questions like this (an many others), precisely because you know well the limits of the camera and your personal needing as photographer, nobody can say what camera is appropriate.
yes, all true I think, but it is also a lot of fun to play with new gear :-)
When I upgraded my XS to a 7D, one of the greatest joys was the jump from 7 to 19 focus points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agilulfo
I also used a Zeiss manual focus lens for a while. If I had more opportunities to shoot stationary subjects, I would have gladly kept it. However, using manual focus with moving subjects is very very challenging. Hats off to whomever can do that reliably.
Also true.Quote:
Originally Posted by ahab1372
Reading back from the beginning of this thread I realize that there are as many different outlooks on equipment upgrades as there are people using it. One important item still missing is what the XSi replacement will be used for. Also, which features seem particularly outdated or are simply missing? The XSi is still a quite capable body and of the older Rebels is the one that I see other folks using the most often.
AF and weathersealing were mentioned earlier as reasons to upgrade which would be enough reason for many to upgrade. Were there any other items on the wishlist?
Yes, a better sensor for lower light photography, better noise reduction, improved technology in AF,.....the list could go on and on. Honestly having never used any other camera than my xsi and a point and shoot, I'm not really sure what features I need. I intend on continuing outdoor photography, but I'm not going to limit myself. There's always the family portraits, if I can get my fiance to smile then she gets the occasional picture. Mainly I love grand landscapes, small details, flowing water, the occasional air shows.
This is my point. Perhaps It would be better to work with your equipment until you find out what do you need. As any other tool, a camera isn't good or bad, it's appropriate or not for a certain task and the way it will be used.Quote:
Originally Posted by jfindley