Asked to do a wedding... (oh yes, one of those threads)

Before anyone prepares to jump down my throat, I haven't done anything stupid (yet). I'm an amateur photographer making a bit of tax-declared profit on the side from event photography, mainly kids' sports. This isn't a vast sum of money - it's mainly used to fund my equipment. I posted an internet ad offering my services as a second shooter for professional wedding photographers because I believe my skill is up to that level. However, I recently received an email:

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I came across your ad while searching for photographers, we are getting married on the 28th july 2012 in swansea just off junction 45. We need someone to take our wedding pictures. At these times cost is everything and if we go ahead you would be our only photographer, we can discuss and give examples of what pictures we would like you to take and the rest can be taken at will.
thanks

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Of course, the knee-jerk reply is 'absolutely not, wedding photography is a task for the professionals in that field'. I replied:

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Hi [name],

Firstly let me thank you for considering me as your primary wedding photographer, I am flattered. I'd also like to level with you straight away by saying that I have never shot a wedding before and my internet advert was aimed at professional wedding photographers requiring a second shooter, from whom I could learn the unique skills required in this sector of photography. I deal mainly with children's sports photography, which is about a thousand times easier than shooting a wedding.

With the average UK wedding costing around £20,000, I sympathise with your situation, especially in the current economic climate. However, I would implore you to consider allocating more of your budget toward a professional wedding photographer. The expenses of a wedding all add up: the dress, the suits, the catering, the venue hire, the transport... the list seems endless, I'm sure - but most of these are only for one day. The photographs however, will exist forever. On your golden wedding anniversary, you probably won't look back and think fondly of the vol-au-vents at your reception, but you can pull out your wedding album and relive the day with vivid clarity, even when your memories are starting to get fuzzy around the edges. With the digital era, these photographs may be seen by your ancestors for hundreds of years to come! I apologise if I come across as overly dramatic, but I believe good wedding photographs are one of the most important parts of the celebration.

I am not able to personally vouch for any professional wedding photographers in Swansea, but I am familiar with two such professionals in the area: [names and details given].

I hope that you will take my advice on board, but if you truly cannot find the money in your budget for a professional wedding photographer, please contact me again and I will try to help you further.

Best wishes,

w349

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My question is this... what if they come back to me saying they have absolutely no money for a wedding photographer, and that unfortunately Uncle Tom will have to take the photos with his kit lens DSLR and pop-up flash. I would consider doing the wedding for free, just to build a portfolio. Am I out of line?

Overall, I think that was a great response.

Regarding what to do if they come back my thoughts would be: 1) Bill according to your skill. Even though you are not a pro, you have skill and it is worth something; or, 2) If you don't want to do that, then a step closer to doing it for free would be to agree on a base price for your attendence, something very low, but then agree on another price that they will pay you only after seeing the photos. If they are happy, they pay, if they are not happy, then they don't.

Good luck....

I think I'd charge a rather nominal sum to show up (and I'm assuming you have sufficient gear including 2 bodies?). With that nominal sum you'll agree to provide them digital files for some minimal number of shots (let's call it 25 or 50). Then after the wedding you and the couple can plan to go through and see how many warrant post processing and printing. That's when you can get some more money and with a good conscience. If you look at the shots and they're good enough to be a pro's then there's no reason not to charge a bit more.

Unless you have a backup of nearly every piece of equipment (multiple fast primes, multiple flashes, multiple camera bodies, etc), and an ironclad contract that protects yourself, I'd suggest turning it down.

I believe your original plan of assisting an established wedding photographer was a great idea. I also loved your response, up until the last sentence.

I wouldn't discount Uncle Tom's photos. When I married my first wife we were both very young. (to young really) With a few hundred dollars in my pocket many of the pictures we have were taken with the old instamatic camera. The pictures are no less treasured than if an expensive pro photographer took them. The media itself tells as much of the story as the picture itself. Two kids starting out with nothing.

Since you do not know these people, you do not know if they are asking this to save money or if they truly cannot afford much. I would be inclined to help them if it was the latter and they were starting out with not much at all. I would let them know my skill level and probably not charge, after all you help them and you get to practice as well.

If they are just out shopping and have a bit of money to blow on a photographer, I would just walk away from it. Let them go shop against the guys doing this as a living. You will have to decide which situation it is. From their tone of the response you got, I think this will actually be the situation. They already have a “list” of things they want.

Thanks for everyone's input so far, I'll keep you posted if they reply. A couple of you have brought up the topic of equipment redundancy. I have a backup body (but it's a rebel), however I do have a 1D-X on pre-order. Whether or not that arrives in time for July is anyone's guess, and I'd need time to become familiar with it. I have 3 580 EX speedlites, and enough fast glass that I would be covered if any focal range were to fail. By no means do I have any iron-clad contracts.

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Originally Posted by Sean Setters

I also loved your response, up until the last sentence.

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Thank you. I kept the last sentence as vague as possible on purpose to give myself some thinking time and to weigh up the opinions from this forum.

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Originally Posted by HDNitehawk

I wouldn't discount Uncle Tom's photos. When I married my first wife we were both very young. (to young really) With a few hundred dollars in my pocket many of the pictures we have were taken with the old instamatic camera. The pictures are no less treasured than if an expensive pro photographer took them. The media itself tells as much of the story as the picture itself. Two kids starting out with nothing.

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That's a fair point, everybody has different expectations. But as you pointed out - and this is something I didn't spot - they have a "list", which might indicate something about their expectations. Thank you for pointing that out to me.

Plenty of fast glass and a 1D-X on pre-order from shooting kids' sports? I've got to figure out your business model.

I wouldn't put too much weight on the bride having a 'list' of photos. If you watch any of the bride-to-be shows on television (my wife just can't get enough of these - nor of the mother-to-be ones) you'll see that all the media is suggesting that every last detail be planned before the big day. Any spontaneity is completely stomped out. Honestly, having a set list to work from for the required individual and group portrait shots isn't necessarily a bad thing (start with the big groups and end with the couple and their party - so everyone else can go drink!). That's that much less you need to think about. Now, if she starts telling you where she wants the umbrellas, etc. then I think I'd walk.

Dear w349(interesting name, sounds like it would be used in a chat room...LOL),
Having just been through this experience and knowing that everyone has to start somewhere, I would suggest going for it. I had the most easy going bride and groom and parents of the bride that you could ask for, they are friends and things worked out well.
It is a big day and you will work hard and you have many hours of work ahead of you. You should be compensated.
If these people are not friends than you should charge something, at least a booking fee paid in advance. And then charge something that will at least have you not out of pocket, for anything, including a wedding album for the prints, printing costs both paper and digital.
Also have a second shooter and let them use that backup body, it takes pressure off you and that helps.
If you are advertising, than you are stating that you are ready to go, more or less.
My other tip as a first time "first shooter" get/hire a 70-200mm f2.8 v2, it is a lot easier to use than a bag full of fast primes or be prepared to do a lot of running backwards and forwards. I rented this lens for a week and that cost me $200, but it is an invaluable tool for wedding photographers.
Comfy shoes with good grip is also useful, because of the moving and weird places you will be standing and leaning.
Be prepared to shoot at least half as many more photos as a "pro" to get the required number of shots for the bride, most pros shoot roughly 300-500 to get 200-250 images. 200 shots isn't easy on a creative level for a "rookie", so plan your shots and locations and have backup locations in mind.
I'd go for it, charge according to your experience, but cover all costs, especially if you have to hire any equipment such as FF body or glass to make your job easier. I would turn the job down if you don't have the tools you need to get the job done.
It is a very long day, at least six hours and a lot of time and effort afterwards.
Good luck, not everyone is a wedding photographer, but they all started somewhere.
Steve

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Originally Posted by w349

My question is this... what if they come back to me saying they have absolutely no money for a wedding photographer, and that unfortunately Uncle Tom will have to take the photos with his kit lens DSLR and pop-up flash. I would consider doing the wedding for free, just to build a portfolio. Am I out of line?

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Keep your options open. If the couple really has no money to spend and decide to ask uncle Tom:) why not come to an agreement. I do have some suggestions.
1 - Make sure it doesn't cost you any money, at least play even.
2 - They want something that you offer, but you also want something from them(portfolio). In modeling this a very normal deal, why shouldn't it in weddings? It's nice not to worry about payment in your first job.
3 - Make sure everyone knows the expectations. Don't oversell yourself at any cost.
4 - Meat up with the couple at least 1-2 times. Better even is to have a photo try-out. You can call it pre-wedding shots. I have done this with four couples so far and you really get to see how the couple reacts and what they want and can expect to get. It's also very good for your portfolio, because you get some more portraits:rolleyes: It also gives you a nice chance to spot locations and lighting directions. Plus the couple gets used to you and understand you better during the big day. If they feel comfortable around you and they don't have to guess your name, your job will be much more pleasant and probably more successful.
5 - Make sure there is a second shooter. There will always be moments that you're going to miss. A second shooter decreases that chance by a lot. Even uncle Tom can help you out at this point:cool:
6 - Make sure everyone's clear on when they get the photos and when you're putting them online. I once heard of a photographer who uploaded the photos too soon and before the couple saw them all their friends already saw them...that's declaring war to bridezilla and you don't want that.
7 - Have fun. If you are comfortable, everyone around you feels more comfortable. Don't push people too hard. If they don't want their photo taken or someone doesn't smile. So be it, that's not your problem.
8 - Have a backup location if the weather doesn't cooperate.

I probably forgot a million things, but anyway good luck whatever happens. As for your reply, I understand what you're saying, but to be fair...
The level of photography on this site is extremely high. Some people upload photos that are equal if not a lot better than some of the "pro" wedding photographers shots. And the funny thing is that they don't even know it because they worry too much about their gear and are way too perfectionist. Expensive equipment doesn't make a great photo, it can only enhance a great photo.

My sister got married april or so this year. She and her man only wanted to marry legally, so no people around. My other sister was one of the two witnesses and that was it. They said they didn't want photos but my sister(witness) decided to take my camera. I just set it up for indoor shooting: AV F4 ISO-1600 and center focusing point and explained her how to focus and take the shots. My sister has no photographic experience whatsoever, but the photos that she made were actually quite good composed and the settings turned out to work great. My other sister(who married) ended up liking the photos a lot and it turned out they did a little photo shoot after all. While the settings where horrible for outside, they still pulled off some great shots which are now great memory's.
What I'm trying to say is that the couple doesn't really care about the technical perfection on the shots as long as the important "moments" are captured. Keep that in mind;)

Example from the photo-shoot that my non-photographer sister took:
http://www.actieinbeeld.nl/tdp/portretje.jpg
F4 ISO-1600 1/8000
Horrible settings for this scene, but it turns out that they don't give anything about "horrible" iso-1600 noise, blown highlights or anything like that. They will always remember this moment. And remember that she normally takes photos with her phone if she takes photos at all ;)

Must admit I have not shot a wedding. Do cover sports and business events, and portraits, on an occasional basis. Do you carry sufficient equipment and liability insurance to be fully covered if some drunken relative trips on a tripod wiping out a new 1D-X and a several thousand dollar lens? If they manage to injure themselves in the process will you be fully covered and not personally liable? Do you have a week or so available to cover preliminary meetings, checking out the venues beforehand, sorting and post-processing, printing and packaging, burning DVDs, making an event slideshow ( can take hours to process depending on CPU ), and all of the things I didn't remember to list?

If you have these items covered and still want to plunge in, I say GREAT!!! I love being a hired gun at events. I show up early to get the run through from the photographer, take lots of shots (mostly jpeg to ease processing and reduce download time), submit my files, fill out some paperwork, and get paid. All of the rest of the work required to run their businesses is done by the photographers I contract to. On occassion I have done back to back weekends with the same photographer. Most of the week in between has been filled with delivering one weekends shoot and getting everything lined up for the next.

My point is that there is way more time spent behind the scenes in any photography venture than there is behind the camera. Just wanting to make sure that you realize what you could be walking into. The description you give of their email makes me think that they are in sticker shock over photographer pricing and are hoping to get a deal. Be upfront about your skill level, submit samples of your work, and make sure your contract does not contain phrases such as '... dependent on customer satisfaction...' :rolleyes:

Best of luck in this,
Jeff

Great advice Jeff.

Learn from others.

Always look behind you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...=cueq-lqWK9c#!

Good luck... :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hpJ1iPD5RQ

@Rocco don't watch John's movie while you're on a conference call discussing poor earnings...

"Can I have the raw files?"
"Do you even know what that means?"
" ... engagement photos"

Hahahah, that was brilliant. Regarding the 'wedding photographer fail' video ... I really hope the weathersealing held up on his equipment. They were pretty submerged.

The couple haven't contacted me yet, so I will tentatively assume they found somebody else.

Thanks neuro, that was hilarious.

I had to share that. That was funny! Thanks John.