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I recently bought the Cokin Z-Pro system with a couple of their grad ND Filters. I'll probably be buying some solid rectangular ND filters soon and have read that there is a sentiment that Cokin filters may not be as good as Lee, Hitech or Sing Ray. Does anyone know of a good source for reviews of the different types of filters? Does anyone recommend one brand over the others?
Thanks,
Brant
Brant
When I went to Yellowstone we had the ND discussion and you gave good advice. I ended up with with a combination of several types. I wasn't able to get a holder and I ended up handholding the graduated ND's, I actually found this to be very easy especially when using the 4x6 filter in conjunction with a B&W ND or Polarizer.
I bought 4 of the Sing Ray 4 x 6 filters, 2 graduated and 2 ND. I also bought the 110E and 103E ND B&W filters, and a Cokin P set. The Cokin filters just felt cheaper than the Sing Ray (and believe me they literally were). I sent the Cokin stuff back and kept the Sing Ray.
I used the graduated Sing Ray's daily all hand held.
The Sing Ray performed great and I was well pleased with them. I know if you go with Sing Ray you will be pleased, your pocket book will not be pleased, but you probably will.
I didn't use the Sing Ray ND filters much, because with the screw on B&W's you get to keep your lens hood on. I felt like this was an advantage. There were times I hand held the graduated in front of the screwed in ND's and it worked great.
The problem I see with using the holder is the circular polarizer. I suppose to go full rectangular a guy needs the drop in polarizer as well, I am just not sure if the drop in polarizers on the market will be as good as the B&W one I have now. Have you looked at these yet?
I did finally get a holder a few months back, none were available for a while.
Rick
Hi Rick,
Thanks for the response. I've only started evaluating the drop in polarizers. That is one of the items I was hope to find a few online reviews to help me evaluate. I assume that there are good ones as Darwin Wigget talks about using one in this video comparing the Lee vs Cokin Z-Pro Holders: http://darwinwiggett.wordpress.com/2...-z-pro-holder/.
Right now I am planning on keeping my screw-in B+W polarizers as I often screw them in and walk around all day with them on the front of my lens and I see the Z-Pro system more of something for when I am taking the time to set up a shot. So, this is really about the solid and grad ND filters. I'll probably bring in a few high end filters and try them out.
Thanks,
Brant
I have heard good things about HiTech Filters too. They are cheaper than the other brands but do not have the color cast that the Cokin filters do. I purchased a 3 stop hard and 3 stop graduated to see what they were like and was pretty impressed. I used them hand held the couple times I have tried them since I don't have a filter holder and they don't have any scratches yet. I like them and will probably buy more when I have more dedication to landscape photography. If you had not spent the big bucks on the Sing Ray or Lee Filters, you might give them a try.
So, earlier this morning I ordered a Singh Ray 2-stop grad ND 4x6, a 3 stop solid HiTech 4x4 and a used (rated 9) 72 mm screw in B+W 106 (6 stop). The only direct comparison I'll be able to make is between the Singh Ray and cokin 2 stop grads. But I should get an impression of the general quality of the others.
Brant: I would be interested to hear your thoughts of the Z Cokin vs. the Singh-Ray after you have a chance to look them over. When I bought mine it was the Cokin P series I bought, you could see the difference in quality just holding the product in your hand.
Rick
Rick...will do. I should have them Monday...but I am hoping for a surprise and receiving them tomorrow as I am headed out on Saturday to shoot....
BTW...I found these reviews of some HiTech filters....
http://www.dannylintonphotography.co...egory/reviews/
....these are not reviews of rectangular filters, but perhaps the best review of UV filters I have seen to date....
http://www.lenstip.com/113.1-article...ters_test.html
The top three ranked UV filters were all variations of the Hoya HMC or Pro MC. The B+W MRC does well, but comes in fourth. This is almost entirely because the Hoya HMC/Pro MC does a better job at blocking UV radiation, and these are UV filters. However, the B+W actually does a little better (~1%) on letting light in the visible spectrum pass through the filter. Given that I use the filters as physical protection, I personally am probably more concerned about the transmittance of visible light. But it seems that Hoya HMC or B+W MRC are all very good filters and very good options. Interestingly, this really shows the variation within brands.
(borrowed from a post on CR)
That is a great reference for filters. Thanks for the link!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayaker72
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Setters
I've been searching the website and they have a few more articles on filters:
http://www.lenstip.com/120.1-article...upplement.html
http://www.lenstip.com/115.1-article...ters_test.html
http://www.lenstip.com/119.1-article...upplement.html
Good info, but it should be pointed out the articles you are linking to are somewhat dated. For example the CPL tests were done in 2008. The B+W Slim KSM C-Pol MRC 72mm was rated #1. There have been newer releases by B+W with new technology applied so one might read this article and buy this CPL and think they bought the best B+W makes, which 5 years ago it probably would have been but not today.
Good point Rick. I just picked up a B+W UV filter with their "nano" technology.
I own the 82mm version of the B+W Slim CPL that is rated second on the list and a 77mm normal one. I bought a B+W 77mm XS-Pro/Nano-MC Kaseman last July and I think it is much better than the old versions I have. Better color and better Image Quality. I don't know if it is the Nano technology or if it is somehting else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayaker72
Of course you know the reason I read the article was to see if there was another magical CPL out that was better than what I have. Fortunately I didn't find one to add to my want list since I already had the best on their list. :D
Hi Rick,Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNitehawk
I've been playing with the filters off an on for a couple of weeks now and I agree, there is a quality difference. But I am not sure if it is optical or significant enough me to spend the extra $ on Singh-Ray.
First, filters I currently own:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7186/6...720f34e0_b.jpg
The top row from left to right is the Cokin 1 ND, Singh-Ray Soft Grad 2 ND, Cokin 2 ND, and Cokin 3 ND.
Bottom row is a B+W 72 mm CPL, Formatt Hitech 3 stop solid ND, and the B+W Grad ND 102 (2 ND).
One thing that jumps out is that I am not quite comparing apples to apples as the Cokins have a much harder edge and the Singh-Ray is definitely has a soft graduation. Also, there is a slight color change between the different filters.
The Singh-Ray has slightly less flex, is a little thicker, has polished edges and rounded corners. All and all, it is nicer:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7066/6...8c85f110_b.jpg
Left is the Singh-Ray and right is the Cokin (both 2 ND)
But overall, the physical quality of the Cokin Z line (these are all Z121's purchase as part of the U960 kit) isn't to the point where I am put off. But I've read that cokins can impact color a bit, so I created my own homemade test. All shot in the same conditions and settings:
No Filter:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7203/6...0de8c356_b.jpg
Cokin 2 ND
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7047/6...3dc2c3ea_b.jpg
Singh-Ray 2ND
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7193/6...ecde7ea0_b.jpg
I am still working on some real world comparisons, here is my first set:
Newport Bridge, Newport RI
No Filter:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7210/6...864cfb0a_b.jpg
Singh-Ray 2 ND:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7194/6...82d7a47f_b.jpg
Cokin 2 ND:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7038/6...475bf941_b.jpg
The biggest difference I see is between the harder vs softer graduation of the filters. I can post 100% crops, if anyone is interested, but they are very comparable. I didn't see any image degradation due to the filter.
I am also playing around with whether it is easier to get the grad filter effect in camera vs in PP. Thus far it seems that minor adjustments may as well be done in PP, but for 2 ND or more, detail is lost (shooting at the sun), in which case, it is better to get in camera. I am also liking being able to see the capture shot while still in the field.
So I am still deciding what I am going to do. Right now I am kicking around the idea of sending the Singh-Ray and Hitech back and ordering a Reverse Grad ND. But I might keep the Singh-Ray as I can see having a harder and softer graduated ND filter.
BTW, I did look at the number of stops. At least holding them up to my 7D, The cokins are pretty accurate (3 ND was 2 2/3, others dead on) and the Singh Ray is only 2 ND at the very top of the filter.
Brant:
Thanks for the comparisons. However, I would think that if there was a difference it would be more likely to show up in high contrast situations which is where they are most like to be pulled out and used. The best examples would be sunsets and sunrises. The bridge example above does not have a real large contrast variation from sky to water because it looks like it is shot in good light with the water well lite. So I guess I wonder which produces the most flair looking into a sun at the horrizon (foreground relitively dark or shadowed compared to the sky). The other test is when the sun is below the horrizon (or only a small portion showing), does the filter create bad fringing around the shadowed areas (tree branches, sharp edges from buildings, etc.)?
I have Cokin, and I bought them so I could get something other than silhouettes when looking into the rising or setting sun. I bought Cokin at the time because all the catalog places were out of everything, and I found a set at a camera shop in Traverse City... so I bought what they had left. The main problems have been flair and fringing if the sun is still above the horrizon. If you try to keep the sun out of the shot, then you loose a lot of the great color. So I was currious whether the Singh-Ray was better for the more high contrast type shot?
Pat
Hi Pat,
I agree. I'll try to fit in some of the tests you suggest soon. Some may be a little tough. I haven't found too many convenient locations for sunsets, etc. But I am planning on testing flare/sun in the shot today.
Thanks,
Brant
Brant; maybe it is exposure, or maybe it is color. The Singh-Ray seems to have a color closer to the no filter picture. The Cokin is either brighter or washed out. Notice the deep blue color of the water on the bridge picture. The bridge in the Cokin doesn't appear as sharp but I am on a small monitor and didn't zoom in.