Some Help Please

So last night I went to a friend's 8th grade graduation and took dozens of shots. I used a 135mm prime lens because it would go to an F2.0 so I could deal with the lighting. I shot on AV. Two things I learned: First with the 135mm I could not get far enough back to get good group shots. I knew this would likely be an issue but with my other lens is an F3.5 I tried the 3.5 but even at ISO 800 could not get suitable shutter speeds for hand held. The other issue I ran into is the 135mm does not have image stabilization. I shot without a tripod (pretty sure I looked ridiculous enough without adding a tripod to the mix). I have a lot of images that are blurred due to camera shake. Things looked ok on the LCD on the camera last night but when I got them up on the main screen today I was really disappointed.

I have uploaded four of the files, unedited. The first three were shot at the ceremony with the 135mm on AV. The last one was shot at a friend's home with EFS 18/55 that came with the camera on Auto. I used auto because I could not get the shutter speed where I needed it in AV and the young ones were getting antsy. I am fairly happy with the fourth image.

You can view the images here: https://picasaweb.google.com/1024595...eat=directlink

I really appreciate any and all feedback. I would like to eventually progress to really good amateur.

Your second shot is at 1/100s shutter, which is too slow for a crop camera and a 135mm focal length. The issue on that one is almost definitely blur from camera shake (and possibly subject motion blur too).

The first and third shots are at 1/200s, which is the bare minimum for that set-up. 1/320 would be better. But I think your issue is actually a focus problem. What AF setting did you use? Center AF or did the camera automatically select the AF point? If the latter, that would explain why some of the girls to the side are sharper than the speaker in the middle. Or it could be a combination of camera shake and the wrong AF point.

AF was set to single and I was using the center point. Given the fact that the camera was already opened as far as it would go I guess I would have had to increase ISO? I was concerned about noise.

I checked your bio to see what camera you were using but couldn't find it. If it is a newer camera, I'd rather fix 1600 iso noise than try to unblur a slow shutter speed in Photoshop. Both options are possible, but most folks find noise sliders the easier solution.

Good advice given already. Looks like a combination of camera shake and subject motion with too slow shutter speed. A little fill flash could have helped you get a faster shutter speed at the same ISO. If that wasn't possible I would definitely push the ISO to whatever level needed to get a sharp image and make sure not to underexpose. The noise could be dealt with in post processing. Maybe use auto ISO if your camera has that option.

Camera is a T2i. I was using a 430 flash but with the distance I don't think it was doing much. So if I understand correctly increase the ISO, get that shutter speed up around 320. Deal with noise on the back end in light room or similar. There was a mention of not under exposing. Do these shots look under exposed? I thought exposure was actually pretty good. Of course what is tough about this is I don't get a redo, at least not for a while.

Congrats on the Graduation!

The exposures look about a 1/3 of a stop underexposed, so increase the exposure slider to +0.3

The WB is too warm(reddish) due to overhead lighting, as opposed to your flash, so I would lower the temp about 400 to 500 degrees.

As others have suggested, there appears to be some camera motion, subject motion, and a narrow DOF at f/2. Keep in mind that at 30ft. that lens on your T2i has a DOF of about 1 ft, at 20ft it's 6 inches.

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

In the first image #0012, it looks like the boy (blue suit) and girl (orange dress) sitting in the first row are in better focus than the the girl at the podium, so perhaps your lens is back focusing, or you're not achieving focus-lock?

The second image #0038 looks like camera motion, and subject motion due slow shutter-speed.

The 3rd image# 0060 it looks like the girl sitting on the left in the first row is in focus, and the boy next to her is in partial focus, so if you were focused on the girl, then it looks ok, if you were focused on the podium, then either your camera is back-focusing on the girl and boy, or you were focused on the girl and then you recomposed to include the speaker at the podium, and she is OOF because she is moving and/or she is out of the shallow f/2 DOF. Since the plants and podium are not moving, I would say that the woman and podium are out of the narrow DOF and the woman is also moving. If you weren't doing what I was suggesting then your lens is also back-focusing in addition to the low shutter-speeds.

You can also note that the girl sitting on the right in the orange dress (img #0060) is also in better focus than the plants on the podium, as she is more likely within the narrow DOF along the plane of focus of the other kids sitting in the first row on the left side.

So, yes you need faster shutter speeds and higher ISO, or a better flash, but I would like to ask you who you were focusing on and what is your focusing method or procedure? You can check the AF points in DPP.

I noted that you used a single center focus point, but were you using focus lock and recomposing?

Rich

In the first shot I was focusing on the girl at the podium. In the second shot I am not 100% certain but I believe I focused on the girl receiving the reward. The third shot was focused on the women at the podium. In all three cases I placed the center AF dot on the subject, depressed shutter half way, got red light and beep, finished pressing shutter - sometimes immediately, sometimes a few seconds later. Also just looked at your depth of field comment, I totally ignored depth of field!! This was shot all the way across the short side of a gym, 25 to 30'? Very shallow depth of field. Did not have a chance.

Hi Bill,

Try to take some test shots at f/2 and f/8, with faster shutter-speeds and see if your focus is on target or back-focusing. There are some threads around here about lens focus testing.

I would also check to see if you were using One Shot mode (recommended), and not AI Focus which can jump around a bit, especially with a shallow DOF.

Other techniques to improve camera motion with slower shutter-speeds (won't improve subject motion), would be to support the bottom of the lens with your left palm, then have both elbows tucked into your body, then squeeze the shutter button gently by rolling your finger tip over the button, as opposed to pushing down on the button, which jerks the camera. Some people also like to hold their breath. I like to exhale slowly, and try to stay calm, as it's easy to get excited when you see that magical moment approaching.

Rich

I don't see camera shake. If you look at the boy on the left in pictures 1 and 3, you can see clearly details as his glasses, tie, watch or even nails. If you had camera shake in a well focused picture, you would see the axis of the movement.

Anyway, following Richard's advice you will be able to shot at 1/100 or even less with your 135 mm (still subjects). I would add that, as long as it's possible, put your back against a wall, a tree or a friend. This picture it's taken with a 135 mm lens at 1/60.

Attachment 1181

You could go much higher in ISO than 800, with a good noise reduction software (such as DXO or Light Room) ISO 3200 is quite usable. Much better to have a noisy shot than a blured one. I have taken properly exposed shots up to 12,800 on my 60D (same sensor as your t2i) and it's still good for web sized images, actually it's quite good at that resolution, and a kinda noisy 8x10 but not bad.

John.

Here's another vote for not being afraid to use your high ISO. I have a 7D, same sensor as your T2i, and I use 3200 all the time. Unless your printing larger than 8x10, then your fine. Get some noise removal software and your set. I used noise ninja when I had windows and wish they would update their processes for newer macs. I use topaz denoise and it works really well, just much slower. The other thing for slower shutter speeds with non-IS lenses is work on your technique. Always make sure your steady to get the best possible shots which means good stance, good posture, and good arm position. Read up on Joe McNally and his technique for taking photos at slow shutter speeds.

As a sample
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-V...G_5006-001.JPG
this was shot at 3200 iso, f/8 , using my t2i
although not intentionally chosen you can see it's nice enough to share and use on the internet.

at 100% it does loose a bit
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-x...G_5006-002.JPG

another factor if your worried about noise might be image size, I use the RAW+Large Jpg setting 18M 5184x3456- possibly cleaner than using a medium jpg

-I'm still new to this (about 4 months) of not just point and shoot full auto, so there was no noise clean up in that image.