Help with selecting light modifiers

I have recently purchased a few speedlites (430EXII and 2 Yongnuo 560II's). I'm relatively new to flash photography and looking at all of the different modifiers available is pretty overwhelming. I like to shoot people, pets, and a little wildlife (probably in that order). I like to shoot both indoor and outdoor. My general approach to buying gear is to get stuff that will last a while. I'd rather pay a little more upfront and avoid the evolutionary process of upgrading later only to end up with the same equipment I could have purchased in the first place. I'd like to know which light modifiers (and size) you feel are more useful that I should purchase first and learn to use (soft box, grid, beauty dish, umbrella, barn doors, etc). Also, what brands and models do you have good experience and results with. I'm always interested in seeing sample photos of your work with said equipment if you are willing to share. Thanks in advance.

Sean's the expert on this, but I use and am pleased with a pair of Lastolite 24" Ezyboxes on Manfrotto 1051BAC light stands.

Shoot first, then ask questions later :-)

Seriously, It would be better start working with you flashes and take as many pictures as you can. Then you will realize what exactly do you need for you purposes. If you don't, you can ask how to achieve an special lightning technique or improve a picture in particular. There are many people in this forum experienced about flash photography that would help you.

In this case, function create the organ. It makes little sense buy an umbrella or something else before knowing if you are going to need it.

I have two 430EXIIs, with 25 inch white umbrellas, and they work well. I use them mostly for outdoor shots. I like the umbrellas for softening the flash. I use them fairly close to the subjects, and typically operate them in manual mode, since my subjects are static. An umbrella is such an inexpensive accessory, it's worth starting with them. The smaller umbrella is less likely to be a sail in the wind (though, I always sandbag the stands, just to make sure).

One thing that would be good to know is whether you are wanting to shoot in a studio type environment or have a photojournalist approach with a need for mobility. The wildlife could be done from a blind or stand if you want to create studio quality shots or are you more of a hiker/camper coming across wildlife and taking shots when the opportunity presents itself. The portability requirement, if applicable, could have a huge impact on recommendations. There are some, such as Sean, who do carry studio type lighting to outdoor photo sessions and set it up on site as that is what is required to achieve the level of lighting control to meet their needs. Other people will carry a few flashes, improvise holders on site and are thoroughly pleased with the results.

The point I am trying to drive at is that there are many approaches to lighting and without knowing what your preferred approach will be it is not easy to recommend specific equipment. For someone starting out it can be overwhelming with so many choices. The other difficulty in starting out is not knowing through experience how to achieve the effect that you want. Just start using the equipment you have and spend time with ratios and angles to learn what you can do with what you have now.

You did say you are starting with flash units. Have you been using them? What method of triggering the slaves have you been using? Would cables or radio triggers improve your ability to work with them? In the shots you have taken, or will take in the near future, are you satisfied with the amount of light? Do you have the ability to control the transition from light to shadow to create the effects that you want? I know that I struggled with figuring out what to start with. Eventually it dawned on me that close examination of the photos and effects I was achieving and comparing to where I wanted to get to would be the best way to figure out what I would need to achieve it. That and a knowledgeable person behind the sales counter at the local camera shop who took the time to help me work through it all.

To say I have a few light modifiers would probably be an understatement (I compiled a fairly comprehensive list below). I started out with speedlights, but have begun using monolights more and more over the past couple of years. Personally, I enjoy the flexibility that monolights provide in the wide assortment of modifiers and sufficient power to do whatever I want with them.

If I were to pick two favorite modifiers with monolights, it would be the Mola Demi (I love that beauty dish) and the 64" PCB Extreme Silver PLM with the diffusion cover. The beauty dish wins out for the great quality of light that it shapes, while the PLM wins for its versatility.

When it comes to speedlights, umbrellas a fantastic (and cheap). I like a 43" size for most general purposes. I have several, and I still use them often. In fact, I used them yesterday for a shoot; the results were especially (and predictably) flattering when used in a clamshell type of lighting. The other modifier I'd suggest is along the same lines as Neuro's Lastolite Ezybox recommendation. I purchased a cheaper, smaller 15" version from Alzo several years ago and I've used it on many (and I mean many) shoots. I used it last night for some jewelry shots, in fact. I like the collapsible softbox because it's easy to set up and the controls of the flash are very easy to get to when using the softbox (a stark contrast to the Westcott Apollo where you must rip open the velcro on the front diffuser to get to the controls). However, it's a bit small to recommend for general purposes. Therefore, I'd recommend something similar (a collapsible softbox) but larger, like what Neuro recommended. Given that you don't mind paying a bit more up front, the Lastolite gets high marks for its durability. If you find yourself in a budget crunch, however, you can find cheaper alternatives straight from China on Ebay, but don't expect the same quality.

As for the modifiers I own and have used, here's the current list. Legend: M = Monolights, S = Speedlights, B = Both

Used with - Light Modifier
M - PCB 48" Foldable Octabox
M - PCB 24"x36" Medium Foldable Softbox
M - PCB 32"x40" Large Foldable Softbox
M - PCB 64" Extreme Silver PLM w/ Diffusion Cover
M - PCB 42" Extreme Silver PLM
M - PCB 22" Silver Beauty Dish (HOBD) w/ Diffusion Cover or Grid
M - PCB 20" White Parabolic Reflector
M - PCB Honeycomb Grids for standard reflectors
M - PCB Standard 7in reflector
M - Mola Demi Beauty Dish w/ P.A.D. & Opal Diffusers
M - Ebay 16" Beauty Dish w/ Grids
M - Ebay 70"x48" Giant Softbox
M - Gels for monolights
B - 25", 43", 60", 86" White umbrellas
B - 43" Silver umbrellas
B - Impact reflector
B - Sunbounce Sunmover reflector
S - 48" Apollo Style Octabox
S - 28" Westcott Apollo Softbox
S - 15" Alzo Collapsible Softbox
S - Opteka / Honl grids
S - Small Opteka collapsible diffuser
S - DIY snoot
S - 14" Lumodi Titanium Beauty Dish
S - Gels for speedlights

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrw

One thing that would be good to know is whether you are wanting to shoot in a studio type environment or have a photojournalist approach with a need for mobility. The wildlife could be done from a blind or stand if you want to create studio quality shots or are you more of a hiker/camper coming across wildlife and taking shots when the opportunity presents itself. The portability requirement, if applicable, could have a huge impact on recommendations. There are some, such as Sean, who do carry studio type lighting to outdoor photo sessions and set it up on site as that is what is required to achieve the level of lighting control to meet their needs. Other people will carry a few flashes, improvise holders on site and are thoroughly pleased with the results.

The point I am trying to drive at is that there are many approaches to lighting and without knowing what your preferred approach will be it is not easy to recommend specific equipment. For someone starting out it can be overwhelming with so many choices. The other difficulty in starting out is not knowing through experience how to achieve the effect that you want. Just start using the equipment you have and spend time with ratios and angles to learn what you can do with what you have now.

You did say you are starting with flash units. Have you been using them? What method of triggering the slaves have you been using? Would cables or radio triggers improve your ability to work with them? In the shots you have taken, or will take in the near future, are you satisfied with the amount of light? Do you have the ability to control the transition from light to shadow to create the effects that you want? I know that I struggled with figuring out what to start with. Eventually it dawned on me that close examination of the photos and effects I was achieving and comparing to where I wanted to get to would be the best way to figure out what I would need to achieve it. That and a knowledgeable person behind the sales counter at the local camera shop who took the time to help me work through it all.

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Thanks for your feedback. I'm probably more interested in shooting outdoors than anything else. I tried to setup a shot with my wife and dog in the park. I quickly realized that the light was harsh even at low power. I also had a challenge of positioning them to test out different angles because I didn't purchase any light stands yet. I'd like to get 2-3 light stands along with some modifiers to control and shape the light a little better.

I haven't shot that much with the flashes. So far I've just done some shots with one or two, just to test them out and see how they fire. When indoors, I usually bounce them off a wall or ceiling to improve the light. But there is little control with that approach and not easy to achieve outdoors without some other gear.

As for firing the flashes off camera, I bought Yongnuo radio triggers. They work well.

Once you get the lightstands and modifiers, you'll need a reliable method to anchor them to the ground. An umbrella on top of a light stand quickly becomes a wind sail with the slightest of breezes. There are several ways to tackle the problem--commercial sandbags, milk jugs filled with weight and tied with bungee cords, tent stakes, full camera bags, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sean Setters

To say I have a few light modifiers would probably be an understatement (I compiled a fairly comprehensive list below). I started out with speedlights, but have begun using monolights more and more over the past couple of years. Personally, I enjoy the flexibility that monolights provide in the wide assortment of modifiers and sufficient power to do whatever I want with them.

If I were to pick two favorite modifiers with monolights, it would be the Mola Demi (I love that beauty dish) and the 64" PCB Extreme Silver PLM with the diffusion cover. The beauty dish wins out for the great quality of light that it shapes, while the PLM wins for its versatility.

When it comes to speedlights, umbrellas a fantastic (and cheap). I like a 43" size for most general purposes. I have several, and I still use them often. In fact, I used them yesterday for a shoot; the results were especially (and predictably) flattering when used in a clamshell type of lighting. The other modifier I'd suggest is along the same lines as Neuro's Lastolite Ezybox recommendation. I purchased a cheaper, smaller 15" version from Alzo several years ago and I've used it on many (and I mean many) shoots. I used it last night for some jewelry shots, in fact. I like the collapsible softbox because it's easy to set up and the controls of the flash are very easy to get to when using the softbox (a stark contrast to the Westcott Apollo where you must rip open the velcro on the front diffuser to get to the controls). However, it's a bit small to recommend for general purposes. Therefore, I'd recommend something similar (a collapsible softbox) but larger, like what Neuro recommended. Given that you don't mind paying a bit more up front, the Lastolite gets high marks for its durability. If you find yourself in a budget crunch, however, you can find cheaper alternatives straight from China on Ebay, but don't expect the same quality.

As for the modifiers I own and have used, here's the current list. Legend: M = Monolights, S = Speedlights, B = Both

Used with - Light Modifier
M - PCB 48" Foldable Octabox
M - PCB 24"x36" Medium Foldable Softbox
M - PCB 32"x40" Large Foldable Softbox
M - PCB 64" Extreme Silver PLM w/ Diffusion Cover
M - PCB 42" Extreme Silver PLM
M - PCB 22" Silver Beauty Dish (HOBD) w/ Diffusion Cover or Grid
M - PCB 20" White Parabolic Reflector
M - PCB Honeycomb Grids for standard reflectors
M - PCB Standard 7in reflector
M - Mola Demi Beauty Dish w/ P.A.D. & Opal Diffusers
M - Ebay 16" Beauty Dish w/ Grids
M - Ebay 70"x48" Giant Softbox
M - Gels for monolights
B - 25", 43", 60", 86" White umbrellas
B - 43" Silver umbrellas
B - Impact reflector
B - Sunbounce Sunmover reflector
S - 48" Apollo Style Octabox
S - 28" Westcott Apollo Softbox
S - 15" Alzo Collapsible Softbox
S - Opteka / Honl grids
S - Small Opteka collapsible diffuser
S - DIY snoot
S - 14" Lumodi Titanium Beauty Dish
S - Gels for speedlights

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Wow that's a lot of gear. I think I'll focus on modifiers and stands for the speedlites I recently purchased. Based on the feedback I've read thus far, it looks like an umbrella and soft box may be a couple of good modifiers to start with. For the umbrella, is it a shoot through more useful than a reflective one?

I've seen a lot of cheaper soft boxes on eBay. Not sure if anyone has any experience with these. I also noticed that Lastolites are on the pricier end. Are there other brands that are just as good (or close enough) that I should consider or is this the recommended brand considering portability and durability? Ive read a lot that people recommend to spend the money without compromising for things like good glass and tripods. Does this fall in the same category or is it relatively simple enough equipment that a I won't see much difference in another brand?

I also need to get the stands and attachments to mount the flash (both to the stand and to the modifier). I'm not really familiar with how this is done and what parts I need to get.

White umbrellas tend to be more versatile because you can use them as a reflective umbrella or a shoot through diffuser. Also, personally speaking, I prefer the warmer color of the light and the more diffused nature of it when using a white umrella compared to a silver reflective one.

If you're unsure whether or not a softbox is worth investing a good chunk of money into, buying a 28" collapsible Ebay version is a decent route to take. It may not hold up for years, but it's a great way to [cheaply] dip you toe into the pool. If you end up using it a lot, you may end up seeing the value in purchasing the Lastolite version.

In order to connect your flash to a light stand, you'll need an umbrell swivel. Also, as you're connecting wireless remotes to your flashes, you may want to pick up a few Hotshoe with Miniphone adapters for an easy way to connect your flashes to the wireless remotes if your wireless remotes don't have the hotshoe built-in.

I would also like to point out that it is possible to make, or improvise, some of your own modifiers. One of the more unique ones I came up with some time ago was to mount a textured glossy piece of photo printing paper onto foamboard. When clamped onto a rod in the umbrella rod hole of the lightsstand flashmount it allowed bouncing the flash off the surface to create a diffused light source without the same amount of light loss as shooting through an umbrella. The light is not as diffuse this way but it is cheap, simple, and effective. Translucent materials, plastics especially, also come up regularly in discussions about home made equipment.

One thing you did mention was using flash outdoors. It may not always be possible to work in a shaded area but when you can you will find it easier as you won't be trying to overpower the sun while creating the look you want.

Thanks for the feedback Sean. I found a couple of Westcott kits that provide the stands, swivels, and modifiers. These are the links:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...lla_Flash.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...lo_with_8.html

Both are available in Canada where I'm from at surprisingly the same price as the B&H website. Let me know I you have an opinion on these. They received decent reviews.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrw

I would also like to point out that it is possible to make, or improvise, some of your own modifiers. One of the more unique ones I came up with some time ago was to mount a textured glossy piece of photo printing paper onto foamboard. When clamped onto a rod in the umbrella rod hole of the lightsstand flashmount it allowed bouncing the flash off the surface to create a diffused light source without the same amount of light loss as shooting through an umbrella. The light is not as diffuse this way but it is cheap, simple, and effective. Translucent materials, plastics especially, also come up regularly in discussions about home made equipment.

One thing you did mention was using flash outdoors. It may not always be possible to work in a shaded area but when you can you will find it easier as you won't be trying to overpower the sun while creating the look you want.

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Thanks for the tips. I have read quite a few creative DIY options. I think once I purchase the stands and swivels, I can explore some of them. It's a bit tough right now to position and place without stands or assistants :).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mpieris

Thanks for the tips. I have read quite a few creative DIY options. I think once I purchase the stands and swivels, I can explore some of them. It's a bit tough right now to position and place without stands or assistants :).

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I can imagine. :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mpieris

Thanks for the feedback Sean. I found a couple of Westcott kits that provide the stands, swivels, and modifiers. These are the links:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...lla_Flash.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...lo_with_8.html

Both are available in Canada where I'm from at surprisingly the same price as the B&H website. Let me know I you have an opinion on these. They received decent reviews.

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Anyone have any thoughts on these?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mpieris

Anyone have any thoughts on these?

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Start small; go with the umbrella kit. If you find you need more control of the light, then you can always spring for the softbox kit later.

I'll note here that I have the Westcott Apollo, and while I've used it many times, I do find its design limiting in that you have to remove the diffusion cover to reach the flash controls (I use manual power adjustments 95% of the time, and therefore I like having quick access to the flash). It's a design flaw they're quite aware of, because they sell an accessory Mounting Arm that alleviates the problem (I own it as well). The mounting arm allows you to place the flash outside of the softbox so that you have access to the controls. The issues I have with the mounting arm include the increased setup time involved in using it, the added instability of having more tension elements (screws, in this case), and the added cost of the item itself. The light coming from the Apollo is great--but it's a pain to use, in my opinion.

Purchased the Westcott 43" umbrella kit yesterday. Used it with my 430EXII and Yongnuo triggers. Here are a few shots from my first time using a light modifier. They have been post processed in Lightroom 3. Let me know what you think.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7251/7...8a185f96_c.jpg
IMG_2013 by MAzing Pictures, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8150/7...0e3e8503_c.jpg
IMG_2004 by MAzing Pictures, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7250/7...709632f4_c.jpg
IMG_2014 by MAzing Pictures, on Flickr

Well, #2's definitely my favorite. Well done.

Agreed. Love #2 the most. Maybe a little bit of a raised eyebrow and more of a smirk would make amazing, but really like it the way it is.

A few more from the series:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8013/7...bd1b269a_c.jpg
Untitled by MAzing Pictures, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8161/7...753f0930_c.jpg
Untitled by MAzing Pictures, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8283/7...e7485ef3_c.jpg
Untitled by MAzing Pictures, on Flickr

Love the last one's facial expression, but lost some of the nice background. If you had another flash for a rim light to separate the hair and background, that would be awesome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andnowimbroke

Love the last one's facial expression, but lost some of the nice background. If you had another flash for a rim light to separate the hair and background, that would be awesome.

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I have two more flashes. Had one setup as a rim light, but my transceiver batteries died at the beginning of the shoot. Will try it with the rim light the next chance I get (with fully charged batteries of course).

Thanks for sharing your first shots with us. Now that I see what sort of improvements a single umbrella kit can do to your light I should be considering the investment. Basically today, I'm always bouncing off the ceiling or a wall.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steph

Thanks for sharing your first shots with us. Now that I see what sort of improvements a single umbrella kit can do to your light I should be considering the investment. Basically today, I'm always bouncing off the ceiling or a wall.

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Yeah it's amazing how much better things are with a basic setup like this. I found a really cool website that is very informative for speedlite photography. Heres's the link:

http://smokingstrobes.com/

His videos are short and easy to follow. I learned quite a bit from them as a beginner in this area.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steph

Thanks for sharing your first shots with us. Now that I see what sort of improvements a single umbrella kit can do to your light I should be considering the investment. Basically today, I'm always bouncing off the ceiling or a wall.

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Yeah it's amazing how much better things are with a basic setup like this. I found a really cool website that is very informative for speedlite photography. Heres's the link:

http://smokingstrobes.com/

His videos are short and easy to follow. I learned quite a bit from them as a beginner in this area.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mpieris

Yeah it's amazing how much better things are with a basic setup like this. I found a really cool website that is very informative for speedlite photography. Heres's the link:

http://smokingstrobes.com/

His videos are short and easy to follow. I learned quite a bit from them as a beginner in this area.

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Thanks for the links! I've just checked it out and indeed it seems quite interesting (nice asian model too ;))

I just bought a grid for my flash. Here are a few shots. The last one is with a gel. My first time using both. Welcome your critiques.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8001/7...d079774d_c.jpg
Aurelie portrait by MAzing Pictures, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7274/7...ca0b4ca6_c.jpg
Aurelie portrait by MAzing Pictures, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7113/7...beba999b_c.jpg
Aurelie portrait by MAzing Pictures, on Flickr

Grids are great, but generally speaking, they work best in tandem with other light sources. If used as a main light, they're best used with a fill light. If not the main light, then grids are usually used as hair lights or as a background light. Try some of those uses for your grids.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sean Setters

Grids are great, but generally speaking, they work best in tandem with other light sources. If used as a main light, they're best used with a fill light. If not the main light, then grids are usually used as hair lights or as a background light. Try some of those uses for your grids.

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Thanks for the tip Sean. I was trying to capture some dramatic type shots I've seen others do in the past in make-up ads or CD covers. Is there a general rule of thumb on the power ratio to use for the rim/hair light? Generally, i like using the main light from my flash and shoot through umbrella setup.

Rim light is like salt--add it to taste. Some people like a very strong rimlight, some like a more delicate touch. For me, it depends on the type of look I'm wanting to achieve.