Outdoor Portraits - Advice on eliminating shadows

This morning I attempted to take some shots down by the lake of my daughter and one of our dogs. It is about the 3rd time that I have tried to get some decent shots of the two down there. I have tried different times of day and the shadows always end up too harsh. So, my question is will one speedlight fix the problem or is this too much for speedlights to handle? What would be the best modifier to use on it ..umbrella or softbox? Which filters would work best. Would just a reflector work? Is the only solution a large setup with strobes or something?

Here are two of the photos I took this morning to use for critquing of what the best solutions would be. I know they are horrendous, that is why they are being used as examples. Granted, a less windy day would be needed for any type of setup but is the only solution to wait for cloudy days?

The only thing I used was a polarizer filter and I attempted to use NIK Viveza on the shadows but it didn't help much. I tried having them situated in many different directions of the sun. I know #1 it would be best for her to take her glasses off, they are thick glass since she has very bad eyesight and they only add shadows and distortion but she would still have squinty eyes due to the sun!

I've never used reflectors before, approx. how far away do they reflect so they are not in the photo if you are taking a full-body portrait to include some scenic background?

Sorry for all the questions!! Ok, on to the pictures ...what would have solved the shadow problem in these two for example? I am looking for the smallest, easiest to use and least expensive solutions that would at least minimize the problem where maybe in post I can fix the rest with maybe NIK Viveza. She'll never go for a huge setup being put up on the beach and we are usually walking and moving around alot anyway!

Attachment 1254

Attachment 1255

Here are a few I took on a different day at a different time of day with still the same probem ...

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This last one I actually edited the shadow off of her arm because it was real bad ...

Attachment 1257

Any advice would be appreciated since right now I'm looking at my only choices are a cloudy day or giving up on the idea. The second choice is what my daughter votes for ...LOL!

A reflector probably wouldn't be the best solution for you (especially if you don't have someone to hold it for you). Do you still have a lightstand and a way to trigger an off-camera speedlight?

Denise, is there any way to get her to put her back to the sun? If so you could use you pop-up flash for fill (just dial the flash comp down) or an on camera speedlight. If you wanted to take a little more time and set up, then take Sean's advice (he knows much more than I do about OCF). I have to use my speedlight on camera when chasing my boys around when I try to photograph them with no help and the results aren't awesome but are still pretty good. You wont have to worry about red eye because it is already bright outside.

Most of these are taken in that manner...my family photo shoot.

I do still have one lightstand and I still use the Yongnuo RF-602's. I have one 580EX II and one 430EX II.

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Originally Posted by Jayson

Denise, is there any way to get her to put her back to the sun? If so you could use you pop-up flash for fill (just dial the flash comp down) or an on camera speedlight. If you wanted to take a little more time and set up, then take Sean's advice (he knows much more than I do about OCF). I have to use my speedlight on camera when chasing my boys around when I try to photograph them with no help and the results aren't awesome but are still pretty good. You wont have to worry about red eye because it is already bright outside.

Most of these are taken in that manner...my family photo shoot.

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The shots of your boys are really nice. I will just try having the flash on camera and see how much that helps.

That time of day, you'd need a big screen and prolly a reflector on the other side. If going lightweight, I'd just catalog the location and wait for a cloudy day.

You might want to try one of the flashes, on a stand (bare) on the shadow side. Basically, you'd have the power set to offset the shadow as much as possible. If that doesn't work, then you might try an umbrella really close with a tighter framing.

Take a look at Syl Arena's Speedlighter's Handbook, it has an amazing wealth of advice. I have tried one of the techniques, which is to underexposse the ambient light and manually zoom the flash for fill.

The cheapest option is open shade, but that won't generally work at the beach or spontaneous/candid shots.

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Originally Posted by DavidEccleston

The cheapest option is open shade, but that won't generally work at the beach or spontaneous/candid shots.

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Thanks for the link. No there isn't much shade at the beach area that we were at. But I did pretty much the same thing of shooting from all directions trying to find what would work best. We even went again right before dinner hoping later in the day would be better but apparently it wasn't late enough. I did bring a flash with but it really didn't help much. Plus our dog was getting pretty adament that he would rather be chasing birds than looking at me!

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Originally Posted by Sean Setters

You might want to try one of the flashes, on a stand (bare) on the shadow side. Basically, you'd have the power set to offset the shadow as much as possible. If that doesn't work, then you might try an umbrella really close with a tighter framing.

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We may give it one more try tomorrow morning alittle earlier and I will bring one flash w/stand. If it isn't windy, I will try the umbrella.

I did use one flash tonight on camera but not much luck of the shots being any better, first I tried it with an on-camera small soft box and then without.

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Originally Posted by KenK

Take a look at Syl Arena's Speedlighter's Handbook, it has an amazing wealth of advice. I have tried one of the techniques, which is to underexposse the ambient light and manually zoom the flash for fill.

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I do have his book around here somewhere! I will try a couple things tomorrow hopefully and see if I can get something to work!

Denise,
I am not the best at this but here are a couple of examples.
Jayson suggested turning her so her back is to the sun and use on-camera flash dialed down a bit. This was just that, ETTL.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8282/7...aeeec2e7_z.jpg
IMG_0057 by clemmb60, on Flickr

The next one is also turn her back to the sun. The flash is bare bulb on light stand. Flash at full power.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8294/7...d7892af2_z.jpg
IMG_0153 by clemmb60, on Flickr

This last one is with the sun more to the side. Flash bare bulb on light stand. Flash on full power.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7260/7...e9fcf9d9_z.jpg
IMG_0007 by clemmb60, on Flickr

These are not my best work by any means. I do prefer to use the flash on lightstand with softbox. I have pretty much given up on using an umbrella. It takes very little wind even om my heavy stand with weights to blow it over. I have broken a couple of flashes and damaged a couple of umbrellas.

Do you have a good flash meter to help you balance the sun and flash?

Very nice shots, Mark! I am hoping to get to the lake early enough tomorrow before it gets too hot and try this. I do not have a flash meter but we'll see how it goes without one. I am going to try on camera first but if my daughter will let me, I will set up a softbox also. She doesn't like too much attention brought to the whole thing but if it's early enought maybe nobody will be there yet.

If I am trying to enhance blue sky, reduce reflection on the water and reduce the chances of blowing out the white on my dog but not do too much damage to IQ, would the polarizer be best or an ND filter? Did you use a filter on your last shot, Mark?

Just using a flash will work, just expose for your background and then use the flash as fill. Here is a quick 2 min video that should help out from Bryan Peterson It's about mixing ambient with flash.

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Originally Posted by ddt0725

Did you use a filter on your last shot, Mark?

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No filter here. A little PP to bring out the sky.

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Originally Posted by Jayson

Just using a flash will work, just expose for your background and then use the flash as fill. Here is a quick 2 min video that should help out from Bryan Peterson It's about mixing ambient with flash.

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Thank you very much for the link, Jayson! I did get a chance to watch it before heading to the lake this morning.

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Originally Posted by clemmb

No filter here. A little PP to bring out the sky.

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I didn't see this before heading out this morning and I ended up bring a polarizer filter with. From what I can see, I must have been more concerned with the flash then the filter because the sky still looks pretty blah in the results and need pp.

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Originally Posted by ddt0725

I didn't see this before heading out this morning

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I slept late :)

Ok, I dragged my daughter out of bed this morning much, much earlier than she cares to get up on her Saturday off and attempted this once again! First off, I should have realized how busy it is there on a Saturday morning with joggers, bikers and dog walkers! Buddy had lots more on his mind than sitting pretty for the pictures!!! Next time, the dog stays home! It was very hard to concentrate on flash, composition etc. and the dog!

But even with all of that ...mission accomplished!! No shadows!! Worst thing is because we did this so quickly to get in and out of there, I don't know my exact set-up for each photo. I tried the speedlight on camera, on a stand and with and without the sto-fen omni bounce. Still, for the most part all the photos were shadow-free.

For some reason, I can't get a "browse" computer box to upload the photos directly and I know she wouldn't want these on flickr so I will try again in a little bit.

Anway, thank you for all of the help an suggestions!! I am actually starting to feel like I know what I am doing now ...LOL!

Denise

The first photo pretty much had nothing done to it in post, the second I did enhance the sky and make a few minor enhancements. I did brighten the bottom of the photo slightly which I guess if I had the flash lower on a stand, it would have been ok. Although, it wasn't bad and I probably could have left it alone.

Attachment 1263

For some reason it only loaded the first image normal size and three of the same second image in thumbnail view when I tried to resize them. The last thumbnail is the largest size.

Attachment 1264

Loading from flickr is so much easier!

I'm a bit late I guess, because I see you have improved your shots quite a bit already.
I'm definitely not a fanatic flash-user at all, but sometimes when I really need a little fill light and just have my bag with a bare 430EX with me. I just use it for on camera flash. Dial the ETTL setting to -1 or so(what suits you) and use the build-in diffuser. It works for the simple things and with using the ETTL you can check one shot and just rely on ETTL to do the same every shot. Having your ETTL on 0 or + often gives me serious white-balance problems or "fake/flat" looking photos. Obviously in the middle of summer, the flash could be too weak to counter the strong sun.
Of course my method is just a last minute solution. If I planned a shot I probably would go with the umbrella or softbox.

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Originally Posted by ddt0725

Loading from flickr is so much easier!

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If it's a privacy thing. You can upload your photos to Flickr. Set them as private and you're still able to share them with the BB-code. But without that nobody can see it. I'm not even sure if people can use the link to the image.