Low Lighting shooting help

Hi dudes and dudettes,

I’d like to get some advice if I could. My friend is a promoter and his own band is playing at a gig he’s putting on next week. I jokingly mentioned me taking photos and he actually seems keen on the idea.

I’m getting decent at photography during the day, but I fail miserably at low light shots. I was shooting at a wedding last week and the ISO auto defaulted to 6400 and the images looked very grainy.

So, I’ve bought a 430EX II flash to use, but considering this is a metal gig there’ll be a lot of drunk people who won’t want a constant flash going off so I’d like to use it sparingly (although if you guys know of online guides on how to learn flash photography/settings it would be great!).

Everyone is going to be jumping around, headbanging, moshing etc which is going to be difficult due to shutter speed vs low light etc. I usually shoot at a shutter speed of 1/500 – 1/1000 or so due to wanting close to still movement, but I understand that’s going to be next to impossible in such light. A bit of motion blur would be OK (for some shots, ie intentional motion blue, not “oh man I screwed that one up”) but I’d like to avoid it if I could.

So, my gear on the night will be a Canon 650D, a L 24-105, the 430EX II and a 18-55 kit lens if I need it. Does anyone have any advice on this type of shooting?

Greatly appreciated

I think you need a faster lens. One option is to visit the location some days before the concert, see which focal lengths you would be using most on your zooms, and rent a prime or two with the prefered focal lengths. On drawback on this is of course that you are bitten by the f-disease where you constantly hunt for lenses with low f-number:p Can be expensive.

Lars

What would you define as a "fast" lens for this kind of thing?

The Canon 50/1.8 or 50/1.4 would be fast enough and a usable focal length. If you are further from the action go for the 85/1.8. Any of these lenses will be very good additions to your kit.
Good luck with it.

I second the 50/1.8, it's a great lens and it's super cheap. Was at a bar a couple weekends ago with a live band and brought the 50/1.8 along and it did just fine taking photos of the stage and band. Looking back through some photos, I was using ISO 3200, f1.8, shutter speeds mostly 1/50 to 1/125.

Great example and feedback Eric.

I was also thinking of the 85, 1.8 and, depending on the size of concert venue, or how close you can get, a 50mm or 35mm if you can stand just by the stage. If you have the possibility to rent, perhaps also rent a second body so you don't have to change lenses. Otherwise, the 50mm 1.8 is very affordable. And the 85mm 1.8 is a lens you will quickly fall in love with (I did).

Lars

P.s. Will you post some pictures here later?

Unfortunately I can't afford a new lens :(

I was just testing my flash and I'm really impressed with how well it works... But damn is it strong. Is it normal it locks my camera to 1/200 max when the flash is on? I was hoping for faster

1/200 s is the max sync speed for your camera. You can use a faster shutter by enabling high speed sync (but that lowers your output power significantly).

Just to clarify, when you say output power are you meaning flash strength?

Yes - HSS drops your power/brightness/range by about 1/3.

1/3 is pretty acceptable to me. It's incredibly bright as it is, so if that takes the edge of it it could work well

Try this to experience the difference between flash duration and shutter speed. Step the shutter speed up from 15th to 200th while panning in your darkened living room.

The the flash duration is very, very short, so unless there is a lot of relative ambient you won't see much blur (adjust the f stop & iso accordingly to balance between ambient & flash). Brighten the room bit by bit and you will see the "trails" of the image after the flash with 1st curtain sync - change to 2nd curtain sync and you will see "leads" to the image.

There are soooooooo many cool things you can do w/ a flash - I don't know if the 430 has multi-setting - (where the flash fires several times during the single exposure) that could be really interesting at a concert with a long shutter setting.

Again, play, play, practice, fiddle. And welcome to the cool world of photo

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Originally Posted by Squidy

1/3 is pretty acceptable to me. It's incredibly bright as it is, so if that takes the edge of it it could work well

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While I am on the topic, does anyone know if the 270II can be used as a Master/Controller. I have used the flash on the t3i to trigger the slaves, but the 5dIII doesn't have a built in flash.... If not, how far up the Canon line do I have to chase to get a flash that is act as a master/controller?

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Originally Posted by Busted Knuckles

While I am on the topic, does anyone know if the 270II can be used as a Master/Controller. I have used the flash on the t3i to trigger the slaves, but the 5dIII doesn't have a built in flash.... If not, how far up the Canon line do I have to chase to get a flash that is act as a master/controller?

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The 270EX II is slave only. Used to be you had to go to the 580/600 to get a master flash (or ST-E2 if you skipped the flash part). But now, you only need to go as high as the bottom - the new 90EX functions as a master, for $150! It is limited in both range and functionality (12-16 ft, no HSS support for remotes, etc.), but it's cheap and does the basic stuff.

Stood in a pitch black room, set the camera to 1/1000 and took a shot... It looks like daytime :/ I love the flash looks great but wish it looked a tad darker hahaha

Now my concern is it'll be too bright and it won't look like a night club gig

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Originally Posted by Squidy

Now my concern is it'll be too bright and it won't look like a night club gig

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That's why there's Flash Exposure Compensation - just dial down the flash a bit...

That's what I've done but even by 1/3 it seems to be much darker. Oh well, I've got a week to practice :)

Squidy, I think that flash compensation was 1/3 a stop, which won't be much... play more :). You want to get as little flash as possible so ISO 1600 or 3200, as wide an aperture as possible - shutter speed just north of 60th perhaps 125th, that will keep the amount of light pouring out of the flash a minimal as possible.

You can test this by leaving all the setting the same, except ISO and use a remote if you have one and take a couple of self portraits - you will see quickly the differences in flash output.

Neuro - thanks on the 90. I used to use the popup flash on the t3i to master the 580 off camera. Now I will get the 90 and it can function as my "pop up"

Mike

Oh so the flash lowers itself judging by how much light the shutter lets in? Wow, didn't know that but it makes sense now

The the meter in the camera and the flash work together to illuminate the scene - distance to focus point, bounce, ambient light levels, etc.

For example, when really desperate for a bounce or softer lighting effect & I didn't bring a "modifier", I point the flash straight up and then fold a piece of white paper over the top so that it is tilted 45 degrees over the flash w/ a rubber band. I have even made a "tube" out of heavy aluminum foil to create a spot or "key light" effect when again, truly desperate. There are more permanent solutions than this, but the point is that the camera's meter and flash work together - if you look very closely you see there are actually two flashes - one is a metering flash the other is the "real" flash. - you can use the pop up as a "master" and the 430 as a "slave" off to the side and even turn off the output to the popup so only the 430 would provide light to the exposure - but you will still the popup on the camera flash to meter the scene and "tell" the 430 how much light to emit.

I am just a beginner on the artistic use of a flash - there are several on the forum that are way better. In the manual you can read about 3 channels, and groups of flashes, etc - just points to how - if you really want to chase it - complex it can be made.... or let the camera & flash to the thinking and it should work 99% of the time - A little quick "compensation" if your subjects are close or you don't want to fully illuminate them (there times when you just a little less shadow) all from the Q button menu

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Originally Posted by Squidy

Oh so the flash lowers itself judging by how much light the shutter lets in? Wow, didn't know that but it makes sense now

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Not exactly. FEC lets you adjust the flash exposure relative to what the E-TTL II flash metering decides is optimal. Nothing to do with the shutter, per se - aperture and shutter speed control the ambient contribution to the image. At 1/1000 s in a dark environment, ambient contribution will be close to nil.

If you're relying on automatic flash exposure, it will determine flash intensity for the foreground subject based on the preflash reflected back from the subject (assumed to be at the selected AF point, or in the center if no point is selected). That's what FEC changes.

Might want to read Syl Arena's excellent book, or NK Guy's, and/or spend some time over at:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03...g-101.html?m=1

I realise that I arrive late in the discussion and a lot has been said on flash but to come back to the event, i.e. a heavy metal concert. I'm not sure you should use a flash for a concert and for some it's even forbidden. You should have quite a few spot lights of different colours on stage and always something on the players. With flash, you will lose a lot of the atmosphere. Try to go there during the balance and ask for a few minutes with real lighting conditions. I wouldn't be surprised that you have something correct with 1/80 f/2.8 ISO 1600/3200 (spot metering - on the player's face). This is of course personal taste but I like when the hands on the guitar neck are blurred (like in he was really playing) and the rest is sharp. To achieve that you'll need to shoot in burst mode and some luck ;0)

A thought - assuming flash is allowed, when you use flash to overcome the ambient, you may be able to avoid killing the ambience at the same time. Consider gelling the flash blue, magenta, etc., which will boost the overall light but blend in with stage lighting.

Good discussion. I'm thinking here, if the light is low, why not just take advantage of that and go for a creative long exposure shot? I think it would look cool to show the motion of the people in the mosh pit, and the band members too. With plenty of trials, there's a decent chance you can come up with something that would work. If you can brace the camera somewhere (or bring a really small tripod), a 1-second exposure could produce some fun results. Who knows?