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Hi All (again)
I'm lucky enough to be off to Peru next year on holiday and am wondering what lenses to take/buy. I have a 450d with the 18-55mm kit lens and a 70-200mm f4 lens. I'm going to buy a canon 10-20mm or sigma 10-22 lens. I will prob leave my 70-200mm at home as my travelling buddy is taking the 100-400mm. I'm thinking of also buying 50mm f1.8 and leaving the kit lens. Does anyone have any thoughts?
Thanks all in advance,
Edd
An ultrawide like the Canon 10-22mm plus a 50mm prime (short tele on APS-C) does leave you without a 'normal' lens - maybe that's ok, but I'd be tempted to bring the 18-55mm. As long as you have ready access to your friend's 100-400, leaving the 70-200/4 behind makes sense. But you'll want a telephoto lens along, IMO.
People associate wide angle lenses with landscapes, but many times it's very effective to be able to isolate elements of a landscape. Also, if you've never used an ultrawide lens, they take thought and planning to make the most of them. Just shooting a wide shot to capture the majesty of a scenic vista almost always produces disappointing results that don't measure up to your memory. Instead, have a very close subject in the frame to draw the eye into the image.
I know you asked about lenses, but also be sure you have a decent tripod!
I would bring the kit lens, or maybe rent a 24-70 or something similar for the trip. I think that a 10-22 and the 50 1.8 is a great idea, but I think you will be disappointed and not able to get all the shots you want with just those two lenses. I've been using those two lenses for like 90% of my shots in the last 6 months because they provide great image quality, but the 50 is a little too long to be used say in a bar to take photos of friends, and I really think you will want some coverage in the 20-40mm range for walking around, etc. Just my 0.02.
rent buy a 17-40 or a 15-85. I have never wanted for anything wider than the 15.
If wanted something with a faster f-stop I love my 17-55 2.8 on my crop body. It is really only one stop slower than the 50 1.8.
My .0000002
Peru sounds like lots of jaw dropping sceneries, combined with colorful details around the people, like ponchos and blankets, city details etc. That requires a certain setup. If you add wildlife, the pack grows a lot. Since you donīt mention it, I drop it.
For most people photography is like golf. Everyone is practicing their hundreds of yards drives for hours, but the games are won on the putting greens. In photography that means everyone thinks they need big lenses (your 100-400mm), but 95% of your images will (most likely) be shot at less than 100mm (on an APS-C). If your friend is willing to carry the 100-400, let him do that and concentrate on the stuff below 100mm. I know I would. If you canīt afford to buy the right gear, rent it (How often will you be going to Peru?)
I also agree with neuroanatomist. It is much easier said than done to make spectacular wide angel shots. Get the 10-22 mm in time, with a circular polarizing filter and a tripod, and practice a lot before you go. I would also get the 85mm f1.8. It is (in my view) the best value for money prime carrying Canonīs name (I use the 85mm f1.2L II a lot, but on FF bodies). Portraits, shallow depth of field, sharpness, color, you name it, this lens delivers.
A different alternative you could think of was to get the 24-105 f4.0L IS. Optically this lens outperforms the others you have on your list and it is now sold for very acceptable prices. I use that a lot (but on a FF body). But with your APS-C body, you will need something in the wide angel area. The 10-22mm would solve that. For some shots there is no alternative, but for the wide sceneries, where nothing moves, you can stitch multiple pictures (requires the tripod) and make the need for a true wide angel lens less apparent. That is a fun and creative process (practice before you go), where you have to think before you shoot. It requires a tripod though.
If only budget was not a problem and a mule could carry the stuff ....
Good luck with your selection! Peru is a great destination (which deserves the right stuff ;)
Eldar
Do you have any tips, tricks or links for a crash course on wide angle shots. The 10-20mm is something I've wanted for a whileQuote:
Originally Posted by neuroanatomist
Never wider than15mm? Even taking wide shots like landscapes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted Knuckles
I will only be going once I think! For now anyway. Wow so much information on here so quickly and now I'm even more confused! The 15-85mm and the 17-55mm have always been other possibilities as well but thought for this the 10-20mm would be the best. Not so sure now! So how hard is wide angle shots, worried now if I take this lens I'll just come back with rubbish!Quote:
Originally Posted by eldarhau
Thanks for all your help
If you are trying to decide between the 10-22 and the 15-85/17-55, I would recommend picking up one of the latter lenses first. The only time I go lower than 15mm on my 10-22 I would say would be for taking starscape photos where I want to capture a LOT of range in the sky. Get the 10-22 if you plan to spend the night on Machu Pichu, that would be an incredible starscape!!! But 15 or 17 would be perfect I would think for 95% of the shots you would want to take, and I kind of wish I had bought either the 15-85 or 17-55 before I bought my 10-22. I had a 28-135 at the time and thought that with those two lenses I would cover the range nicely. The area between 22 and 28mm on my 7D is probably the area I wish I had the most. I definitely like having the 10-22, but I suspect when my 17-55 arrives it will see less use.
But you have the 18-55 now, so I guess you should have an idea of what 18mm can give you. Good luck!
That depends on what you like to shoot. 95% of my wildlife shots are at 300mm on my 7D and that's usually not long enough. Even outside the wildlife realm I spend a lot of time in the 150-300mm range.Quote:
Originally Posted by eldarhau
I'd invest in a general purpose zoom before an ultra wide. I took the sigma 8-16 to Asheville, NC. While it was a fun lens to use, it's actually very challenging to use effectively. I can't overstate how distant and small objects can appear if they aren't close in range.
The 15-85 or 17-55 f/2.8 are great alternatives. I love the 24-105L on my 7D too, but the wide angle limit is probably too restrictive for a trip to Peru.
Good luck and have fun!
Agree with all the recommendations of 15-85mm or 17-55mm. While the 17-55mm would be my personal first choice, I think the 15-85mm is better as a travel lens.
On a 3.5-week trip to China last year, with a FF body, the 24-105mm got the most use, followed by the 70-200/2.8, then the 35/1.4. The 16-35mm was used only rarely, and the only times I really *needed* 16mm (= 10mm on APS-C) were for indoor shots.
So...I'd say get the 15-85mm!
I second the 15-85mm. IQ and AF is much better than the kit lens, and it covers a nice focal length range. It is very convenient to leave most of the gear behind sometimes and go for a walk (boat ride, bus tour, etc) with just one camera and one lens, and still be be able to cover wide to short telephoto.
You can still pack the 10-22 on top of that if you think you'll enjoy ultra-wide, but as others have said already, landscape doesn't mean automatically ultra-wide
I think what neuro said is especially true in the mountains. You'll probably be impressed by the wonderful mountains in Peru, but if you only take pictures at 10-15mm, they'll end up looking very small and unimpressive on your shots, especially those in the distance. Your pictures will not represent your memories at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroanatomist
I live in a quite mountainous region, and when I had my 450D, the 15-85mm was great for this kind of photography. It's wide enough on the wide end to allow you to take nice landscapes if you get an opportunity, and the 85mm on the tele end gives a lot of versatility to play with perspective. The only downside is that this lens isn't fast at all, but the 50 1.8 could be there if you need a fast lens.
I hope you'll have a great trip in this wonderful country.
Here are a couple of videos discussing the issues with wide angel photography (there are many more). As you can see in No.2, there are lots of things you can do in Photoshop in post processing. But as with most things in life, there is no free lunch. You just have to practice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2tDU5A36ac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9uu_K1zDCg
Below youīll find some photo stitch videos (again, there are lots of them on youtube). There are lots of SW packages, including Canonīs own, for this purpose.
If you get the 24-105L, you will not get the wide angel you are looking for. But, if you stitch multiple images (only 2 or 3 is normally sufficient), you donīt run into the same wide angel distortion problems youīll get with the 10-22 (at the wide end). And by stitching 2-3 images together, you can get spectacular wide angel images, distortion free, with incredible resolution and detail. It requires some post processing, but that is half the fun. If you go to a place like Machu Pichu and take the time to get this right, you can make very impressive large format prints and have memories for life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmSw1p4LSwg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGf10N5seEM
Have fun ;)
Eldar
First off, congrats. Peru is on my list of places to go. But you haven't told us much about where you are going and what you will be shooting. It does make a difference as a trip to Peru could include Amazon jungle, Machu Picchu, Lake Titicaca (always wanted to see the floating villages since seeing a documentary on them as a kid), Nazca Lines, Andes Mountains, beaches, and/or city-scapes.
I own both the EFS 10-22 and EFS 15-85 and I am with the others and recommend you get the EFS 15-85. I use the 15-85 for travel and it is great. In fact, almost all my non-animal shots are with the 15-85. Animals are almost always @400 mm on the 100-400L. The 15-85 is very sharp and covers a wide range of focal lengths that will let you frame many difference subjects in the standard zoom range. It also has IS, which will help in certain circumstances for non-moving subjects or subjects you want to blur. You ask if 15 mm is wide enough, short answer is yes. I bought the EFS 10-22 a year ago and honestly, I probably need to watch those videos or sell the 10-22. I hardly use the EFS 10-22 as most of my wide angle shots on my 7D are in the 15-24 mm range. Worse, I typically haven't liked the results from the 10-22 when I do use it. So I highly recommend getting either the 15-85 or the 17-55. As others have pointed out the 17-55 would essentially eliminate the need for the 50 mm f/1.8 (which isn't that sharp until f/2.8 anyway). If you are planning on spend a lot of time in low light (jungles are amazingly dark), I'd go with the 17-55. If you are out and about in the mountains/cities/lakes, I'd go with the 15-85.
Getting back to the rest of your proposed kit. I guess I am not seeing the purpose of the 50 f/1.8. Unless you are planning on taking a lot of photos of people, I imagine wanting to shoot in the f/8-f/11 range to get you a greater Dof to capture the entire scene for most of your shots. If you want a 50 mm prime, I'd spend a bit more and get the 50 f/1.4. It gives you another stop or more of usable aperture (it is sharp by f/2 vs f/2.8 for the f/1.8). I own both (about to sell my 50 f/1.8) and use the 50 f/1.4 a lot more because of better AF and the fact it is sharper at f/2.
Also, have you considered filters? A good CPL or a graduated ND filter (Singh Ray or Lee 2 or 3 stop hard edge ND) may be very useful for shooting landscapes. Also a 6 to 10 stop ND filter could help if you plan on shooting waterfalls in the daylight or to blur away people at, say Manchu Picchu. Also, a good tripod could be very useful (and necessary for shutter speeds of greater than ~0.4 sec on the 15-85). Even if you just have a gorillapod, I would at least have something.
Good luck and enjoy the trip!
Hey, thanks all for the responses. A bit more about the holiday: we will be visiting some cities but also most of the holiday will be spent trekking in the mountains to Machu Picchu and then about a week in the amazon, so quite a varied itinerary. I have a set of grad cokin ND filters and a solid 4 stop. They are rectangular so not that travel friendly! Got a cp for the kit lens and the 70-200mm. From everything that has been said I'm leaning towards taking a 15-85 and 70-200 f4. Any more thoughts would be appreciaited.
Do you have good waterproof carry cases, bags, etc? The Amazon could be hard on your gear - but totally worth it! Having 15-200mm covered is good. And a pretty light combo too.Quote:
Originally Posted by d0051m
I'm now looking in to bags. I have a rucksack, lowepro one already but not sure how waterproof it is. I really want to take some starscapes so do I have the correct lens choice and does anyone have some tips? Cheers
Sounds like you're on the right track. I went to Peru a couple years ago and brought the 450d (aka XSi) with the 15-85, 70-200 f4 IS and 1.4x teleconverter. I also had a circular polarizer for the 15-85. I found this kit to be quite versatile. Depending on what you primarily intend to shoot there could be better setups, but this one gives a good focal length range for a very diverse country! It is also not overly heavy or bulky (which is definately a concern when hiking to Machu Picchu). In the amazon, longer lenses are very nice, but keep in mind that it is often very wet (it is a rainforest) and can be quite dark under the tree canopy. So unless you can move up to the (expensive) tele's (ie the 300 2.8 I suspect would be great there) then this kit will still give great shots.Quote:
Originally Posted by d0051m
Another consideration might be to take a small travel tripod. I used a gorillapod with a manfrotto ballhead. I find these great for travelling as they don't take up much space or weight but still allow tripod shots (with a little creativity in finding something to hang the gorillapod from).
For a bag, I took a lowepro toploader which fit the camera and one lens mounted and the other lens I had in a separate lowepro lens case (which could attach to the toploader). I also took a regular daypack which would fit both the toploader and lenscase (along with water, food, jacket, etc). This had the advantage of being able to carry just the toploader (with the camera and one lens) or attaching the lenscase to bring the other lens or carrying everything in the daypack (which also conceals the fact that you have an expensive camera with you).
Hope you have a good trip.
Stephen
Hi All
An update on the kit list now, please tell me what I am missing!
Canon 450d
3 x battery
4 x 8gb memory cards
Remote shutter
70-200mm f/4 L lens with circular polariser
15-85mm efs lens only uv filter as yet
Also need a bag!
Thanks,
Edd
Unless you have a laptop to transfer pictures to, maybe more memory cards. Do you need a flash? A tripod?
A cpl for the 15-85, maybe a ND as well for long exposures.
At least take a gorilla pod
Thanks David, I've just ordered another memory card (16gb). I'm not experienced at all using a flash that's not the 450d integrated one!Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidEccleston