Dream with me: Alaska Cruise v3.00

Some may remember my previous post about picking rental lenses for an Alaska cruise at http://community.the-digital-picture...ead.php?t=7434 - thanks again for everyone's commentary.

We did another (shorty) Alaska cruise in April, and I had a blast with gear. My wife had a 5D3 with 11-24 and 24-105, and a 7D2 with 70-300L. I had a 1D3 with 16-35/2.8II, a 1Dx with 100-400II (and a 14/2.8II for true wide needs), and a 1Dx with 600/4II and 1.4x TC III. We also took the 85/1.2II and the 100/2.8 Macro IS for fun.

We're thinking of doing another Alaska cruise in August, and I want to ask your opinions and insights for the wide end of what I plan to take. I'm pretty well set on the 1Dx/100-400II and the 1Dx/600 with TCs (I'll probably take a 1.4x and a 2x just to play a bit). However, I've decided that my trusty 1D3 is not only showing its age (ISO limit of 3200) but the 1.3x crop factor is also "inconvenient". So...assume money is no object BUT that I don't have a sherpa to carry a plethora of lenses. Figure that I'm willing to carry two lenses in the 11mm-99mm range, I'm willing to tolerate a reasonable gap between what I do carry in the 11-99 range and the 100-400, and that I'll be shooting either from a cruise ship (possible tripod at times, otherwise handheld), possibly walking around town (assume handheld), or possibly on an excursion (lighthouse/totems/eagles tour on a boat, whale watch on a boat plus glacier viewing "hike" on foot, photo safari by van with some time on foot, whale watch into sunset). Which of these lenses and cameras would you pick (two lenses max, one camera max):

11-24/4, 14/2.8II, 16-35/2.8II, 16-35/4IS, 24-70/2.8 (I own v1, but could rent a v2 if worthwhile), other suggestions are reasonable.
6D, 5D Mark III, 5Ds R, 5Ds.

Specifically, is the 5Ds[R] a waste if handheld?

Sidebar: as much as I absolutely loved the 11-24, odds are extremely high that I'd rent one for my wife, and could use it when we weren't on an excursion, but would probably feel like it's a waste to rent two of them "just to have it all the time". We already own the 14/2.8II, the 16-35/2.8II, and the 24-70/2.8, but would rent the 16-35/4IS and/or the 24-70/2.8II if there was reasonable input from the forum that they'd make a difference. I also feel like the 11-24 is so big that it'd be a challenge to use with my existing LowePro LensExchange 200 case.

Thoughts?

I'll reply "immediately" with a twist worth mentioning. Last year, when the cruise visited Tracy Arm, we opted for the $200pp excursion that allows 150 people to board a "small" boat right off the cruise ship and go further into Tracy Arm, allowing some spectacular glacier viewing that was second to none. I suspect we'd be booking this cruise too late to get tickets for that excursion in August, but if we do I have a thought: the aft corners of the small boat on the lower deck are normally off-limits to passengers, but I'm tempted to contact the tour operator ahead of time to see if I could clamp a camera to the railing as low as possible and put it on a timer remote and/or remotely trigger it with a PW Multimax. If so, I'm thinking of renting a 17mm tilt-shift and "blindly" aiming it in the 7 o'clock direction and shifted up so I can get the most majestic shot of the cruise ship, as well as glacier shots if/when the boat was pointed in the right direction. Would the 5Ds[R] be good here, or would the potential vibration of the ship's engines negate the benefit of MEGA pixels?

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Originally Posted by peety3

I'll reply "immediately" with a twist worth mentioning. Last year, when the cruise visited Tracy Arm, we opted for the $200pp excursion that allows 150 people to board a "small" boat right off the cruise ship and go further into Tracy Arm, allowing some spectacular glacier viewing that was second to none. I suspect we'd be booking this cruise too late to get tickets for that excursion in August, but if we do I have a thought: the aft corners of the small boat on the lower deck are normally off-limits to passengers, but I'm tempted to contact the tour operator ahead of time to see if I could clamp a camera to the railing as low as possible and put it on a timer remote and/or remotely trigger it with a PW Multimax. If so, I'm thinking of renting a 17mm tilt-shift and "blindly" aiming it in the 7 o'clock direction and shifted up so I can get the most majestic shot of the cruise ship, as well as glacier shots if/when the boat was pointed in the right direction. Would the 5Ds[R] be good here, or would the potential vibration of the ship's engines negate the benefit of MEGA pixels?

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Well....a couple of things to consider.

1) If the boat is moving up and down significantly, the smaller pixel pitch of the 5Ds / 5Ds R may mean that you need a faster shutter speed (and higher ISO) to keep image blur to a minimum.

2) The TS-E 17mm f/4L is not weather sealed. None of Canon's tilt-shift lenses are. If the camera and lens will be subject to sea spray at that location, I'd consider a different lens. Of course, sea spray sticking to the lens element would be a concern with any lens as it would certainly impact image quality.

As you've done this before, you know what to expect more than us (and definitely more than me!), so my answers will contain questions.

For the body, I'd say... if you're expecting low-light, 6D. Otherwise, attempt a 5Ds is you think resolution is important. It give you the same reach factor (after cropping) as a 7D2 would, but you also have the option to not crop and have mega resolution. If burst rate would be more useful than resolution, then go 7D2. You've got one full frame, the crop body will make all you lenses dual-purpose (assuming it's safe to swap lenses on the boat!)

Other than that, I think the 16-35II and 24-70II provide sharp enough images that I wouldn't bother with a 14mm prime. It's not giving you any aperture advantage. Perhaps it's got a bit less distortion, but the versatility of the zoom (since you can't zoom with your feet very easily on the boat) would outweigh any slight distortion advantage, I'd think.

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Originally Posted by Sean Setters

Well....a couple of things to consider.

1) If the boat is moving up and down significantly, the smaller pixel pitch of the 5Ds / 5Ds R may mean that you need a faster shutter speed (and higher ISO) to keep image blur to a minimum.

2) The TS-E 17mm f/4L is not weather sealed. None of Canon's tilt-shift lenses are. If the camera and lens will be subject to sea spray at that location, I'd consider a different lens. Of course, sea spray sticking to the lens element would be a concern with any lens as it would certainly impact image quality.

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I'm not too worried about getting good enough shutter speeds. Here's an example from last year: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alibea...7646305661819/ - ISO 200 and f/8 gave me 1/400th. I suspect ISO 400 is still mega-clean on a 5Ds variant, and 1/800th at 17mm ought to be fine. Good point about salt spray though - I may suck it up and just mount it upstairs where it'd be a little more protected.

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Originally Posted by DavidEccleston

As you've done this before, you know what to expect more than us (and definitely more than me!), so my answers will contain questions.

For the body, I'd say... if you're expecting low-light, 6D. Otherwise, attempt a 5Ds is you think resolution is important. It give you the same reach factor (after cropping) as a 7D2 would, but you also have the option to not crop and have mega resolution. If burst rate would be more useful than resolution, then go 7D2. You've got one full frame, the crop body will make all you lenses dual-purpose (assuming it's safe to swap lenses on the boat!)

Other than that, I think the 16-35II and 24-70II provide sharp enough images that I wouldn't bother with a 14mm prime. It's not giving you any aperture advantage. Perhaps it's got a bit less distortion, but the versatility of the zoom (since you can't zoom with your feet very easily on the boat) would outweigh any slight distortion advantage, I'd think.

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I'm not expecting low light, or at least during any multi-camera (in other words, on excursions) work. That said, the 7D2 is a no-go for me. I've used it (with a 70-300L) alongside a 1Dx (with a 100-400II), and it's night and day. 10fps goes to <10fps so quickly in AI Servo with a 7D2, but 12fps stays right there with a 1Dx. I also don't like the noise levels on the 7D2. I'm OK with swapping lenses on the boat, within reason, but I don't want to end up having mixed-crop cameras and having to shuffle what goes where. Here's an action shot of yours truly earlier this month: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alibea...7652539474358/ - 600 stays on the stick, 100-400 stays on my right shoulder, something wider stays on my left shoulder, and widest hides in the LensExchange case in front of my left leg. If I'm not shooting the 600, the monopod goes into my left elbow, and I grab something else: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alibea...7652539474358/ (yeah, I'm almost over the top when I cruise...maybe I'm over the top...)

I think you're right about the 16-35 and 24-70 though. I can't say I missed my 24-70 too much on the last cruise, so I might try a FF camera on the 16-35 and bring the 24-70 just in case.

Hi Peety.....

Sound like some epic trips. Quickly, I doubt the 5Ds/r is a "waste" hand held. There would probably be some benefit to the additional MP, especially with faster shutter speeds. That said, you take copious amounts of pictures. I the impact of the extra MP on file size is pretty significant as they range from 50 MB to 100 MB per image. To me, it is as much the image file size that makes the 5Ds/r a niche camera as anything else. I remember you came up with a pretty elaborate system, but I would make sure it could handle the larger image file size.

Regarding gear, I thumbed through some of your images both last year and just now. Mostly day shots. I do wonder about a lens that would open up night photography a bit more or if you are even interested. The 14 f/2.8 would do that or a 24-35 f/1.4?

But, covering 11-99 mm with two lenses, you likely already have something similar to what I would take, 14 f/2.8 and 24-70 II. The IS of the 16-35 f/4 would (and does) tempt me, but ultimately, I would (and have) picked having a 14 mm f/2.8 prime as UWA is still a smaller niche to me. And, you've already ruled out a second 11-24, which would be distinctive, but redundant with your wife's kit.

The 24-70 II covers a very nice range. I am not sure if it is worth the rental vs the 24-70 Mk I you own. There seem to be some nice advantages, but those are mostly wide open. Stopped own, it becomes similar.

Have a good trip.

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Originally Posted by Kayaker72

Hi Peety.....

Sound like some epic trips. Quickly, I doubt the 5Ds/r is a "waste" hand held. There would probably be some benefit to the additional MP, especially with faster shutter speeds. That said, you take copious amounts of pictures. I the impact of the extra MP on file size is pretty significant as they range from 50 MB to 100 MB per image. To me, it is as much the image file size that makes the 5Ds/r a niche camera as anything else. I remember you came up with a pretty elaborate system, but I would make sure it could handle the larger image file size.

Regarding gear, I thumbed through some of your images both last year and just now. Mostly day shots. I do wonder about a lens that would open up night photography a bit more or if you are even interested. The 14 f/2.8 would do that or a 24-35 f/1.4?

But, covering 11-99 mm with two lenses, you likely already have something similar to what I would take, 14 f/2.8 and 24-70 II. The IS of the 16-35 f/4 would (and does) tempt me, but ultimately, I would (and have) picked having a 14 mm f/2.8 prime as UWA is still a smaller niche to me. And, you've already ruled out a second 11-24, which would be distinctive, but redundant with your wife's kit.

The 24-70 II covers a very nice range. I am not sure if it is worth the rental vs the 24-70 Mk I you own. There seem to be some nice advantages, but those are mostly wide open. Stopped own, it becomes similar.

Have a good trip.

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Thanks for your inputs. Good point about file size and storage requirements. I attended the Peter Read Miller Sports Photography Workshop in Atlanta last October, and one outcome of that is shooting much less often in high-speed drive. I think the only time my cameras went into HSD was for some frame-rate comparisons between the 7D2/70-300L and 1Dx/100-400 (mostly because my wife had put the 7D2 in HSD and I wasn't impressed..). I also know that my "wide" camera does not get shot in HSD at all, hence the reason I'm (quite) comfortable with a 6D/5D3/5Ds.

For the record, I haven't completely ruled out a second 11-24. :D

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Originally Posted by Kayaker72

Regarding gear, I thumbed through some of your images both last year and just now. Mostly day shots. I do wonder about a lens that would open up night photography a bit more or if you are even interested. The 14 f/2.8 would do that or a 24-35 f/1.4?

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I thought about this after I clicked post on my previous reply, and you have an excellent point. On our quick trip earlier this month, my "walkaround" kit was a 1Dx with 11-24, plus the 24-105/4IS, 85/1.2II, and 100 Macro L. In retrospect, I should have re-thought the walkaround kit for daytime vs. nighttime, and have done so for the upcoming (possible) trip. I'm planning to rent the 35/1.4 as my night fun lens but admittedly can't decide if I should do the 24/1.4 instead. I'm also planning to rent the Zeiss 50mm f/2 Makro Planar so we have a not-so-bloody-tight macro option: food photography with the 100 Macro L meant having to scoot back from the table, while switching to the 24-105 still meant having to scoot back from the table due to MFD requirements. I think the 14/2.8II would take the place of the 11-24 at night: I feel like 14/2.8, 35/1.4, 85/1.2, and 50/2 Macro would be a better-balanced night kit (three Canon AF-capable primes at a roughly 2.5:1 focal length relationship, plus a MF macro) than 14/2.8, 24/1.4, 85/1.2, and 50/2 Macro (four primes at a 1.7:1 to 2:1 focal length relationship, but the third one in the range is MF only).

I'm in the process of selling off some older/less-utilized gear (which will include two of our 7Ds and possibly my trusty 1D3), and realized that I'm going to have to "backfill" at least one of those cameras, and it needs to be something my wife wants. She wants a second 5D3, and in my head that makes sense (I have two 1Dx, she'll have two 5D3; for events where we each could use a high-rate body, I can take a 5D3 from her and she can take a 1Dx from me, similar AF logic, etc.) That in turn simplified my camera selection process: since she said she'd prefer a 7D2 for the Alaska cruise, my plan is to buy a second 5D3 with the proceeds from selling 2-3 bodies and 2 lenses, and rent a 7D2 for her for the cruise. After that, hopefully she won't miss the crop factor, and I suspect I'll need to buy her a 70-300L or perhaps she'll actually take a liking to the 100-400II.

As I see it now, it comes together rather well.
When we're relaxing in the room but on the lookout for whales: 5D3 and 11-24, 5D3 and 24-105L, 1Dx and 100-400II, 1Dx and 600&1.4x
When we're walking around the ship, daytime: 5D3 and 11-24, 24-105L, Zeiss 50/2 Macro in a Shootsac
When we're walking around the ship, nighttime: 1Dx and 14/2.8II, 35/1.4, 85/1.2II, Z50/2M in a Shootsac
For formal portraits in less-busy places: 5D3 and 35/1.4, Profoto B1 and 1x3' softbox

Three daytime excursions (bear/wildlife hike in Ketchikan, glacier viewing in Tracy Arm Fjord, whale watching in Juneau):
Me: 5D3 and 16-35/4IS, 1Dx and 100-400II, 1Dx and 600&1.4x, Z50/2M handy in a lens exchange case
Wife: 5D3 and 24-105L, 7D2 and 70-300L, Canon 11-24 and 100/2.8L IS Macro handy in a Shootsac
One premium daytime excursion (private photo tour in Haines via Skagway, guide has vehicle where we can store stuff):
Above plus 35/1.4, 85/1.2, 70-200/2.8IS, Profoto B1 possibly

One evening/nighttime excursion (orca watching in Victoria BC):
Me: 5D3 and 24-70/2.8, 1Dx and 70-200/2.8IS, 1Dx and 600/4 (no 1.4x TC), 14/2.8 and 35/1.4 in lens exchange cases
Wife: 5D3 and 11-24, 7D2 and 70-200/4IS, 24-105L in Shootsac

I'm still on the fence about the 17 tilt-shift. I really like it, and think we could use it here and there, but it's not making the list for much of what we're doing so I may skip it (again)...

Any commentary on my (tentative) plan? I've sketched out the "load plan" and it all fits in our two backpacks plus the 600/4 and 70-200/2.8 in a rolling duffel we'll carry on. The laptop bag will ride on the handle of the rolling duffel to handle memory card duties, and my "semi-famous" SSD plus three HDDs will be spread across various bags for safety. :)

You are back right? just saw a plane crash from a cruise ship excursion....

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Originally Posted by Manofmayo66

You are back right? just saw a plane crash from a cruise ship excursion....

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We cruise in 44 days. It'll be interesting to read the final investigation reports, as we've flown ProMech twice last year (one round-trip by air to Misty Fjords, one round-trip to Neets Bay for a Bear Watch), and I felt their planes were very well equipped. Both of the planes we were on had really good GPS navigation systems that seemed to have terrain avoidance systems, etc., and since there were 8 passengers on the flight that went down, the incident had to be on one of their "Turbine Otters" (same kind of plane that we were on). Considering they had 5 Turbine Otters, there's a 40% chance my wife or I had been on that plane.

We're back, we're alive, and I'll start the editing as soon as I adjust to the fact that my in-laws are visiting for the next week or so. We took a LOT of gear, we had a blast, and we have very few regrets. I ended up renting a 5DsR (long stories combined for that), a TS-E 17, and everything else I'd planned to rent. Only the 85/1.2 came back unused (plus little things like filters which I forgot to take on our key excursion, timer remote, pocketwizards as camera remote), oh, and our older/lighter tripod (mostly because the weather leaving Ketchikan was garbage and not worth heading up to look for whales from the ship).

The RRS TVC-34L tripod was awesome. I'm already a big fan of buying a tripod that's taller than you think you need. The leveling base was excellent for the gimbal head, though marginally useful for the ballhead. The 5DsR was awesome...a couple of times I put it on the 600 (minus the 1.4x TC III) but usually it was on the 16-35/4IS giving me great cropability when the next lens I had handy was a 100-400. The TS17 gave me some new challenges: I guess I'd never used it on full frame before, and I was surprised at how many times the metering would be WAY off.

The Profoto B1 was actually quite useful on three occasions: sunset pictures of us on the first formal night, fun pictures of us (by one of the ship's photographers, and by our waiters) while we did the Ultimate Balcony Dining, and great pictures of us and our dining room staff "friends" on the second formal night (lit so the exterior water view was visible along with the interior "us" in a balanced way.

I hope to get the pictures edited and posted within 10 days, but regardless I'll post a link here just as soon as I can get them ready.

As always, I do hope all of you consider a trip to Alaska (or several...). The photographic opportunities are nearly endless, and it's quite the photographer's paradise.

Finally got the edits done, DVDs mailed off to important people on the ship, and loaded onto Flickr. Visit https://www.flickr.com/photos/alibea...57658597426265 if you'd like to peruse. Filenames represent what day they were taken, 1xxx was day 1, 2xxx was day 2, etc.

Itinerary was:
Day 1: Board the ship, had lunch & dinner aboard.
Day 2: Formal night, did some private formal photos deck 16 aft while enjoying quite a show of animals. While I was setting up the light, I heard my wife say "Gimme that" as I saw the 600 get carried towards the railing...
Day 3: Private tour in Ketchikan - rainiest day we've had amongst five visits to Ketchikan (though the town is known for its rainfall)
Day 4: Small-boat excursion into Tracy Arm Fjord, followed by a whale watch in Juneau (the SIMRAD nav/plotter represents the start of the whale watch)
Day 5: Private photography tour in Haines via ferry from Skagway, then Ultimate Balcony Dinner
Day 6: Formal night photos with our waiters and our Maitre D' Hotel
Day 7: Whale watch in Victoria BC (should have cancelled this...too late compared to sunset, and the boat was not ideal).

Nice series Pete!

BTW, let me know if you have any tips. My nephew just announced he is getting married in Anchorage July 2016. We won't be doing a cruise, but are looking at spending time in Seward/Homer/etc.

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Originally Posted by Kayaker72

BTW, let me know if you have any tips. My nephew just announced he is getting married in Anchorage July 2016. We won't be doing a cruise, but are looking at spending time in Seward/Homer/etc.

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Hmmm...not a lot I can add. Two of our six cruises ended in Whittier, with a car/bus ride to Anchorage. There's a wildlife conservatory on the highway from ANC to Seward/Whittier that we enjoyed, and Portage Glacier has a neat boat tour (it's on "this side" of the mountain into Whittier). We also did the cable car up the side of the mountain somewhere along the highway from ANC to Whittier, nothing amazing (though I was probably sad from having just gotten off the cruise ship - BOO!!!!). To me, Anchorage is somewhat plain: interesting sights around the airport, particularly the water "airport" adjacent with easy access for all involved, and the view from the airport observation deck basically goes like this: "Hey look, there's a 747 cargo plane. Off goes a 747 cargo plane. Look, another cargo 747 landing, and another one. Look, there goes a 747 cargo plane. Hey, what's that, a 767 cargo plane? Yep, followed by a 747 cargo plane. Intruder alert: 737 passenger plane landing! No worries, there's a 747 cargo right behind it." Those 747s stop for 60-90 minutes for fuel, perhaps a crew change, and they're off into the blue yonder. (I have a soft spot for the 747...good thing I now live in the Seattle area!)