Gimbal Head Advice

I've never used one and have no idea what to look for. I know they are pricey so I would probably have to try and snag one on the used market. I still have my same tripod (Induro CT213) and ballhead (Induro BHD2). Am I correct in thinking a gimbal head would be better to use now that I have the 7d II and the Sigma 150-600mm Contemporary or should I just stick with what I currently have? I know I am pushing the weight limit on the legs but I can't afford a new tripod and my Induro is still in really good shape.

So, what should I be looking at for + and - on gimbal heads? I don't know one from another. Do you think I could find a decent used one for maybe around $300 tops?

I want to be ready when the weather breaks and the birds are singing!!

I use a gimbal for the panoramas and alignment of the axis is an imperative. Must be able to adjust the horizontal and vertical axis w/ the centers and nodal points of the lens/camera combo. That is the only reason why I returned the cheaper gimbals that I ordered and tried. IF IF you are not likely to use the gimbal for lots of panos then some of the less expensive gimbals will work just fine.

Using a gimbal with a big lens is a joy compared to a ball head - soooooo much easier. Yea they are heavy but oh so much worth it.

The only one I have ever used is the Wimberly. It is a very nice piece of gear, extremely well made and functions flawlessly. You can move a camera and big lens around with 1 finger. I can recommend it without reservation.

I have heard good things about the Mongoose Gimbal which weighs less than the Wimberly and the Really Right Stuff gimbal as well but I suspect it is more expensive.

Induro also makes a gimbal, I have not heard anything about it but their products are generally good and priced more affordably

I would say your tripod should be fine.

http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/cano...b2-gimbal-head


http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/cano...ii-gimbal-head


http://www.adorama.com/INDGHB2.html

Ask around (i.e. in other forums) to determine if your camera/lens combo can be balanced on a gimbal head. If it can't, you'll still have smooth operation, but not as effortless as if you could balance it. I find that my Canon 100-400 II (with RRS replacement foot/plate) can only balance if zoomed to 400 when it's paired with any of our 1-series bodies or a gripped 5-series body, and that's with the camera almost slammed up against the Wimberley clamp (making it challenging or impossible to rotate to portrait). I've contemplated going back to the Canon foot and using a Wimberley P-40 or P-50 plate so I can clamp something (anything!) out front to gain back some balance options. This brings up another point: zoom lenses will most likely require continuous rebalance if zooming, or perhaps compromise and lower the rig down so it has a little more tendency to just hang low/flat-ish.

Like Joel, I have a Wimberley. Picked it up in July for our Alaska cruise. Absolutely love it. It goes atop a set of RRS legs with a leveling base, which I'd also recommend when you're ready; it simplifies getting the panning axis level, which can be a big factor with a relatively tall gimbal head. My only complaints on the Wimberley are ever so minor: it needs a little use to really soften up (it's a "stiff smooth" initially), and I find that the pan axis is tough to truly LOCK down. I discovered this when I tried to carry a 600/4 and 1Dx on the gimbal on a monopod, with the camera and back of lens resting on my shoulder, and a hand on the monopod. It kept twisting, slightly, but meant I'd have to reposition my hand regularly, or compensate in other ways to keep the lens from falling.

Peety3, sounds like it is a lot more complicated than I realized for usage with a zoom lens. Joel, the GHB2 is only for up to 400mm. So, what I'm kind of getting out of this is my choices are real slim to nil.

Maybe I should just try getting used to using it on the ballhead that I have. I didn't really like using it for BIF because I just felt to constricted so I always ended up hand holding. Definitely, not an option anymore with the 150-600mm and my extremely bad back!

Also, I am still using the Wimberley Quick Release Plate that I used on the 100-400mm which I think now, I should be using a longer one. Another thing to add to the never ending list!

Thank you for all the suggestions ...giving me much to consider and look into. Renting one is looking pretty good, Joel!

I have a more basic question. I'm concerned about the situation where the subject frequently moves then pauses , so that you can't take your hands off the camera while on the tripod. My first attempts (ball head on a travel tripod) seemed 1-2 stops better than handheld. Should I expect more?

For this case how many stops of stabilization should one expect from a gimbal? Any different for a ball head?

The lens properly balanced the Wimberly is more solid than any ball head I have ever used.
Properly balanced it will not fall forward or back and damage your lens.
The smooth movement of a gimbal makes it ideal for tracking moving birds.
Ball heads are dangerous if your hand loose control you run the chance the lens will drop forward.

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Originally Posted by peety3

My only complaints on the Wimberley are ever so minor: it needs a little use to really soften up (it's a "stiff smooth" initially), and I find that the pan axis is tough to truly LOCK down. I discovered this when I tried to carry a 600/4 and 1Dx on the gimbal on a monopod, with the camera and back of lens resting on my shoulder, and a hand on the monopod. It kept twisting, slightly, but meant I'd have to reposition my hand regularly, or compensate in other ways to keep the lens from falling.

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I have never had this problem. Mine locks solid. I wonder if there is a screw that needs adjusting.
I have thrown mine over the shoulder and carried it everywhere. I have never had a problem.

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Originally Posted by ddt0725

Peety3, sounds like it is a lot more complicated than I realized for usage with a zoom lens. Joel, the GHB2 is only for up to 400mm. So, what I'm kind of getting out of this is my choices are real slim to nil.

Maybe I should just try getting used to using it on the ballhead that I have. I didn't really like using it for BIF because I just felt to constricted so I always ended up hand holding. Definitely, not an option anymore with the 150-600mm and my extremely bad back!

Also, I am still using the Wimberley Quick Release Plate that I used on the 100-400mm which I think now, I should be using a longer one. Another thing to add to the never ending list!

Thank you for all the suggestions ...giving me much to consider and look into. Renting one is looking pretty good, Joel!

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I think the advantage of using a gimbal is proportionate to the lens size. In other words for a relatively small and light lens like the 100-400 a gimbal is probably not needed but if you are using the 500mm and up it makes a world of difference. My Wimberly locks solid for carrying with no problem, it has been perfectly smooth from day 1 and I have never had a malfunction in 6 years so far. Of course it isn't cheap, but it will never need replacement so actually the cost over time is low.

Morning D....good to see you back in action.

IMO, shooting BIFs and static birds with a big lens.....a gimbal is paramount.

My Wimberley gimbal is on my big tripod 100% of the time and pretty much exclusively used w/my 500.

Using a gimbal isn't complicated D......'"perfectly balanced" is a relative term. People simply say removing your hands from the equipment and the combo doesn't flop forward or backward. But they don't mention if they've left any resistance on the pitch setting. I know when I was looking into a gimbal, I interpreted "perfectly balanced" as totally friction free. I have since learned, for me, perfectly balanced includes pitch friction on the gimbal.....this may have been obvious to some of the more experienced photogs, but it wasn't for me.

My setup is quick, set the tripod for height, place foot in the gimbal's tray tighten....after using your combo of the gimbal and camera/lens you will discover, approximately, where to place the foot in the gimbal's tray.......in the down moments of shooting my subjects, I will fine tune the foot's placement and resistance.

I like pitch resistance for 2 reasons; obviously decreases the chance of the equipment from flopping when you remove your hands and I like a bit of pitch resistance while in the act of shooting and tracking a BIF. BTW.....I use zero friction for rotation.

Zooming; Peety has a valid point, but I think you'll find that you will be at max zoom the majority of times for shooting birds. One of my cohorts, he shoots w/a 7D2 and the version one 100-400, is nearly 100% on full zoom while shooting and that includes photographing HBs in my backyard. Obviously, you will have to maintain awareness for this possible balance discrepancy.

Leveling; for me, this is a low priority, don't misunderstand, I try to set up closely to level. But when I'm shooting BIFs and birds perched, I'm seldom able to fill the frame and my pix need cropping in post processing.....this is where I straighten any line issues. E. G. yesterday I was photographing bald eagles and I was able to approach one eagle as close as I've ever been able to get w/out causing the bird some anxiety w/my presence. The photo still needed a lot of cropping.

Gimbal suggestion....I haven't use one, but another of my photog cohorts has one and hasn't expressed any concerns; http://www.tripodhead.com/products/s...patibility.cfm

A nice benefit of this, not just expense wise, but it will eliminate the need for mounting and dismounting your ball head when the user only has one tripod.

Good luck w/your decision D

Bill

I was fortunate when I went shopping for a gimbal head to find a place that carried several models in stock. My selection came down to the Wimberley and the Sirui. They are more comparable than the price tags would indicate. The Sirui is lighter, Wimberley friction adjustment is a bit smoother, Sirui was about half the price so it came home with me. No regrets whatsoever. Use it with super teles, 180mm macro, and 70-200 the most. I can see that a longer zoom that extends would pose a challenge or two to maintain balance. Even racking the 70-200 causes enough change that I can feel it.
If you are going to get a gimbal head make sure to use relatively long mounting plates on your lenses to allow more positioning options. The information Brian has posted is a good place to look. If you have access to a machine shop, or know someone that does, it is very quick and painless to make your own plates out of scrap aluminum bar stock. I have no idea how they get to be so expensive in stores other than outright greed. There are non-Wimberley plates that are a fraction of the cost if you need to purchase plates. They will not leave your wallet feeling like it has been violated.

Hi Bill - Thank you for suggesting the sidekick ...now that is a price I can live with and I like being able to keep my ballhead in place! Someone on Amazon uses it with a Nikon D-810 with the Sigma 150-600mm Sport lens and he gave it 5 stars. Maybe I should trade my P-20 lens plate for a P-30 that Wimberley recommends for this lens. I don't know if it really makes that much of a difference but you are correctly Bill, it will be zoomed out to 600mm a vast majority of the time as was my 100-400mm at 400mm.

I am waiting for B&H to refund me for a ASUS monitor I returned due to dead pixels, as soon as I get that I think I will use it toward the Sidekick. I think it will be the perfect choice for me. I can't justify spending $500+ for a little as I will be able to use it on the weekends.

Thank you for all the suggestions, it gave me a lot to consider and be made aware of for when I do start using one.

And thanks for the information about gimbal vs ball head. Heaviest I would ever use is the 400mm f/5.6 with 1.4 x converter, so not so heavy as the lenses you were typically mentioning for a gimbal.

Danny

I havent tried any of the high dollar models so i cant compare but this is the one I use . It is supposed to be good for up to 10lbs. I'm sure the wimberley is bullet proof but this one is half the price.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._3_Deluxe.html

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Originally Posted by jrw

If you have access to a machine shop, or know someone that does, it is very quick and painless to make your own plates out of scrap aluminum bar stock. I have no idea how they get to be so expensive in stores other than outright greed. There are non-Wimberley plates that are a fraction of the cost if you need to purchase plates. They will not leave your wallet feeling like it has been violated.

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There's something to be said for exacting dimensions. The RRS lever clamps are apparently unforgiving when it comes to incorrect plate size: too narrow and they don't clamp firmly, too wide and they deform <something> or break. There's also the end stops on top of the shorter plates, making it easier to keep the plate square, or the captive screw that's easy to attach a lens but won't fall out unless you move it to one end. Some have safety stop screws so you can't slide them out of a clamp. Yes, they might be over-priced, but I'd rather not work through the mechanics of getting all those details right at a metal shop.

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Originally Posted by sedwards

I havent tried any of the high dollar models so i cant compare but this is the one I use . It is supposed to be good for up to 10lbs. I'm sure the wimberley is bullet proof but this one is half the price.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._3_Deluxe.html

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I think with my camera and lens close to 7 lbs. I would really be pushing to the limit for this model especially if I were to add a flash, Better Beamer or an extender at some point. How much weight have you used with it so far, Stuart?

I just put my 1DsIII with 400f5.6 lens , 1.4 extender . ex430II flash with better beamer on my scale and it comes in at 7.9 lbs

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Originally Posted by sedwards

I just put my 1DsIII with 400f5.6 lens , 1.4 extender . ex430II flash with better beamer on my scale and it comes in at 7.9 lbs

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Really!? Maybe I would be okay with that, I will have to take a look at it again.

400mm f/5.6 is light enough to not need any of the heavy duty stuff :)

Dave

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Originally Posted by peety3

There's something to be said for exacting dimensions. The RRS lever clamps are apparently unforgiving when it comes to incorrect plate size: too narrow and they don't clamp firmly, too wide and they deform <something> or break. There's also the end stops on top of the shorter plates, making it easier to keep the plate square, or the captive screw that's easy to attach a lens but won't fall out unless you move it to one end. Some have safety stop screws so you can't slide them out of a clamp. Yes, they might be over-priced, but I'd rather not work through the mechanics of getting all those details right at a metal shop.

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I suppose that the perception of complexity in any endeavour varies greatly depending on one's background experience. If there is a school with a machine shop in your neighbourhood you may find a shop teacher quite happy to have some students make some of these as an example of rather basic machining operations.

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Originally Posted by jrw

I suppose that the perception of complexity in any endeavour varies greatly depending on one's background experience. If there is a school with a machine shop in your neighbourhood you may find a shop teacher quite happy to have some students make some of these as an example of rather basic machining operations.

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I have been tempted to take my lens collars to a shop and have them milled for the clamps. Seems some version of not wise for the manf's to no mill it into the foot of larger tele's

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Originally Posted by Busted Knuckles

I have been tempted to take my lens collars to a shop and have them milled for the clamps. Seems some version of not wise for the manf's to no mill it into the foot of larger tele's

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The main issue is they are not long enough to balance the whole rig....but I have always thought the foot should be made so as not to need another $50 accessory. (ie lens plate)

There is also the matter of alloy and the hardening. I suspect the lens collars might be a little softer than desired for this. There are some differences between casting alloys and those intended for machining.
6061-T6, a common alloy and temper hardness (the T# designation) for bar stock, is a good choice.

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Originally Posted by jrw

There is also the matter of alloy and the hardening. I suspect the lens collars might be a little softer than desired for this. There are some differences between casting alloys and those intended for machining.
6061-T6, a common alloy and temper hardness (the T# designation) for bar stock, is a good choice.

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Great consideration

I just wanted to post an update for anyone that may look at this thread in the future with the same dilemma as I was having. I just received the Wimberley Sidekick today and I think it is going to work out perfectly for me! I haven't tried it out in action yet but did mount my camera and lens to it to try maneuvering it and don't foresee any problems that I could encounter. It definitely will make it a lot easier tracking a BIF than just using a ballhead alone. I like not having to take the ballhead off and on as needed. Best part, I was able to snag a refurb of the sidekick from Wimberley saving more $ and it looks brand new!

Thanks again for everyone taking the time to help in my decision making process!!

I am having a Sidekick dilemma to a point of being highly frustrated with using it! When I use it (which only been a couple times so far), it loosens my Wimberley P30 plate so that the plate is just spinning around! Is it suppose to do this or am I doing something wrong? Is it going to make that plate come completely detached at some point? Then when I want to take my gear off of the tripod, I now have to carry my little toolkit to re-tighten the plate for hand-holding. Very annoying!

I am going to practice with it this weekend in the backyard so I can figure this out but feedback still greatly appreciated. To be honest, I've been frustrated with a few things as far as my photography skills go so much so that I've been considering hanging it up and this is just adding fuel to the fire.

The lens plate should have a small lip on it,,,,make sure this is snug against the rear edge of the lens foot. Get some Loctite liquid and put a small drop on each screw thread and tighten them as tight as you can. That should do it. It would be a horrible shame for you to quit, you have amazing talent:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cmnOw_Tzm0

Anti-Twist Nubs The P-10, P-20, and P-30 plates have anti-twist nubs at the back of the plate. These help to keep the plate from twisting if it is mounted with only one fastener. The unique dual-nub design (as opposed to a single continuous flange) provides better performance when butted against a curved surface. The P-40 and P-50 plates do not have anti-twist nubs because they should be attached with more than one screw.

http://www.tripodhead.com/images/lp20.gif

One other thought....put the sidekick on the opposite side so any spin tendency would serve to tighten the screw rather than loosen it. Really though you should be able to balance it so it doesn't tilt much and really tighten that screw with Loctite.

Thank you, Joel for helping me see my error!! I re-attached it tonight paying careful attention that I really had those nubs firmly placed against the back of the foot and so far the plate is not working it's way loose like it was! I had it close before apparently not as snug against it as it needs to be.

Thanks again, Joel! Gosh, that is why I have always loved this place ...always so helpful even down to the littlest things!

A product called Friction Tape may also be rather useful especially for plates without nubs. Putting some on the plate before mounting to the lens will make a dramatic difference. Available from various industrial suppliers, woodworking suppliers, and some building supply stores.

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Originally Posted by jrw

A product called Friction Tape may also be rather useful especially for plates without nubs. Putting some on the plate before mounting to the lens will make a dramatic difference. Available from various industrial suppliers, woodworking suppliers, and some building supply stores.

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If this doesn't end up staying put on a regular use basis, I will have to check that tape out. Thanks for the suggestion!