Lighting Suggestions for Daughters Wedding

My daughter is getting married next year in July. They have decided to do a destination wedding in Jamaica. It sounds like the resort could provide a photographer, but the cost is pretty steep and you get what they have. It does not sound like she is planning on hiring it out... so that leaves me holding the bag. For a long time now I have worked up excuses in my mind that I could pull out if anyone asks me to take pictures at a wedding, and have been somewhat successful in avoiding event type photography (just not my thing). The few times I have taken "people" pictures at events, I have not done horribly; but it has also highlighted the need for better lighting and posing. As for the knowledge base... I do not currently process this, but I do have time to learn and think I can at least get to the point of somewhat competent (not good or Sean worthy, but hopefully passable). However, wadding through the plethora of lighting options and modifier options can be a little tedious at best and a bit intimidating.

I have been wanting to expand my abilities in portraiture and lighting anyway, and this gives me a good excuse. So what I am asking for is a little guidance on what lighting and accessories I would need for a wedding.

Some back ground on what I currently have:

• You can see what lenses I have available. I think I would plan to bring my 24 f/1.4L II, 16-35 f/4L, 100 f/2.8L IS macro, and the 70-200 f/2.8L IS II. I am debating on the 24-105 f/4 IS... I do not want to bring it, and I want to sell it; but it is a hand range.
• I will be bringing my 1D X, and maybe a 7D as back up.
• I have not decided on how to back up files yet, but will probably use cards so I do not have to bring a computer
• My tripod is a heavy beast, and does not pack away very well (it needs to be totally disassembled to fit into a large suit case). I may be looking for a smaller/lighter travel tripod... which would come in handy as I get older.http://community.the-digital-picture...cons/icon9.png
• I currently have a Canon 580EX-II flash.

Some initial impressions of what I think I need:

• Anything I bring needs to be somewhat compact and flexible since it has to be carried on the plane or shipped to the hotel.
• I think I would like to bring some lighting stands with modifiers (soft box or umbrella). It would seem to me, the umbrellas would be easier to set up and pack. Set up and tear down needs to be simple and quick... I want to enjoy the wedding as well and not be fretting about equipment if I can help it. The hustle and bustle of it all does not bother me, but messing with something that is a pain in the rear would bug me.
• I would think that speed lights would be best just for portability, but some day I would like to get some moonlight strobes.
• I found this, but the "cheap guy" in me keeps looking at the price. Speed Light Kit with Modifiers and Transmitter . Would I be better off (or acceptable) with cheaper flashes and pocket wizards?
• A flash bracket that is flippable with a sync cable. I have no Idea what to buy on this one.
• My thought would be to have my 580EX-II on the camera flash bracket and use a couple of flashes/modifiers off camera for the portraits and group shots. Since it is in Jamaica, I assume the group shots will be fairly small.

I am a real novice at this, and could really use a little guidance.

Thanks

Pat

Will the wedding and reception be indoors or outdoors? Do you have pictures of where the events will take place so we can get a better understanding of what might work best?

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Originally Posted by Sean Setters

Will the wedding and reception be indoors or outdoors? Do you have pictures of where the events will take place so we can get a better understanding of what might work best?

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From what I understand - The wedding will be outdoors, and there will be a short reception indoors. Since the time of the reception is limited, we will then move out to the beach for an evening bonfire. I do not have pictures of the reception area, but will see what I can get.

I assumed any pic's during the wedding would be with on camera flash or no flash at all depending on the intimacy of the moment. And thought the extra lighting could be used for portraits and group shots afterwards. I will have the macro for rings, flowers, etc., and the need for extra lighting would minimal for that.

The portraits and the group shots I assume would be outside and is probably where I need the most help. This is called a "twilight wedding", but starts at 5:00 PM. So after the wedding the sun should be low. I like the look of back lighting (hair light) with proper lighting for the main light and fill light. Hopefully, I can use the sun for the back light and then augment with one to two lights.

I am just starting to think about this, but wanted to figure out lighting needs so I can get what I need and have time to practice so I do not screw this up. This is planning way ahead, but it does give me a chance to experiment... which is how I learn best. I have been looking at your shots for some time now, and I like how you leave some shadows but they are not to harsh and features are still clear (e.g., your avatar). I would also like to get some well lite group shots which I see as being difficult w/o at least a couple of lights.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Pat

Ok, that helps. From my understanding, you're wanting to do the group shots outdoors near sunset. Keep in mind that sunset in Jamaca in July will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 6:45pm, so that gives you a an idea of the timeline you'll have to work with.

While a couple of light stands, speedlights, umbrellas and remote triggers may produce pleasing results, there's something else to consider - wind. I now live about 30 minutes from a beach (Tybee Island, GA), and I can say that it's usually very windy there (same was true on my visit to Myrtle Beach a couple of weeks ago). That makes using an umbrella challenging because of its sail-like characteristics. I'm not saying it won't work, but you'll likely need a) a lot of weight holding your light stands down or b) at least two helpers to keep the light stands from tipping over (an issue if everyone needs to be in one of the shots). Another concern is that if you stack people in rows, the people in the back may be shaded unless your lights are positioned relatively high. And it gets tough to pack light stand that can reach a decent height while remaining airline pack-able.

You may want to invest in some colored gels, too. By using a CTO (or 1/2, or 1/4 CTO) to match the ambient sunset (or indoor tungsten for the reception), then the color of the light hitting the subjects will more closely match the ambient. Otherwise, the color hitting the subjects will be very cool/blue in comparison. Also, I've found that for indoor locations (where the ceiling is a relatively normal height), bounce flash works very well. I'd suggest picking up the Rogue Flashbender 2 Small to kick a little light forward while using the ceiling to do the heavy lifting. I like the Flashbender 2 small because it's really easy to pack and it isn't bulky in-use, and you get the benefits of on-camera ETTL for exposure calculation.

Those are just some thoughts off the top of my head.

PS: On the topic of backup solutions, I ran across this interesting article today. I did some investigating, and it looks like a pretty cost-effective solution. Though, you'd likely want to make/design a case for the circuit board.

Pat,

If out of line I apologize, but if reasonably possible I'd suggest you not photograph your daughter's wedding given you have a much bigger role as father of the bride.

I'm not a father so I can't fully relate, but if I had a daughter who was getting married I'd want the traditional role in the wedding.

If you do proceed as the photographer I wish you the best.

Dave

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Originally Posted by Dave Throgmartin

Pat,

If out of line I apologize, but if reasonably possible I'd suggest you not photograph your daughter's wedding given you have a much bigger role as father of the bride.

I'm not a father so I can't fully relate, but if I had a daughter who was getting married I'd want the traditional role in the wedding.

If you do proceed as the photographer I wish you the best.

Dave

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I don't think I will be taking pictures to much during the wedding, but I do want to get some nice photos afterward. A few descret shots during the ceremony shouldn't be to taxing. It is going to be a small wedding with family and close freinds. We will see how it goes, but I am no wedding photography, and I have no intention of taking it that far. The camera is not going to take over and keep me from enjoying myself, and I definitely have no intention of keeping her from having a happy and memorable day.

Beyond the wedding (which I am very happy about), I see this as an opportunity to learn a new aspect of photography that I don't currently do very often (portraits), and hopefully come away with a handful of decent shots.

No worries.

Pat

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

Thanks Sean. I do like the Flash bender (better than my bounce card), and it is a fairly low cost opption. Do you think it is worth while investing in another flash and stand to get at least one light off camera? Or is the gain minimal if I am bouncing off the ceiling anyway?

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I agree with Sean. I think for outdoors radio activated speed lights with umbrellas will be easiest but you will need to recruit some help to move these around. I have a pocket wizard mini TT1 and some of the TT5 units. They work very well. Make sure to bring or purchase on site a load of AA batteries.

If you decide to go with monolights/strobes I can recommend the Einstein units from Paul C Buff which are very nice, very powerful and you can get umbrellas, battery packs and radio triggers that work with Pocket wizards. They can also be slaved optically to your on camera flash except then any flash will set them off. You Could easily put two of these lights with batteries, cords, chargers and small umbrellas in large suitcase.

Since you are on a beach maybe bring some sandbag type light stand weights too....

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Sa...3/N/4062040365

While there's a ton of things you can do with a single light [flash], on and off camera, I think it's best to have at least two when shooting groups of people.

If bouncing the flash make sure the ceiling is white or you can end up with a weird color cast.

Dave

One really good online resource for wedding and portrait photography with on and off camera flash is Neil van Niekirk's Tangents blog on his website http://neilvn.com/
He does run through some practical approaches to getting the flash/ambient balance that you want. Once you start to grasp the concepts there is no substitute for going out with your camera and flash to practice. Have fun with it!

Thanks all!!!
I will be looking into the flash bender... I do like the idea of that. I have to start digging into speedlights, and see what direction to go there. I think I like the idea of packing speed lights easier that moon lights, but I still want to get a moon light or two some day also.

Sean - Have you used the small soft box on the flash bender?

Thanks Joel for the pocket wizzard model numbers... that helps. I was thinking Einstien lights for a lighting system... it sounds like I was on the right track there.

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Originally Posted by jrw

One really good online resource for wedding and portrait photography with on and off camera flash is Neil van Niekirk's Tangents blog on his website http://neilvn.com/
He does run through some practical approaches to getting the flash/ambient balance that you want. Once you start to grasp the concepts there is no substitute for going out with your camera and flash to practice. Have fun with it!

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Thanks for the link... I agree on the practice. I have a lot of time to learn (wedding is a year away), but that is why I bring it up now. I want to get the hardware and practice. I won't get a chance for redo's, so I need to get better and get it to be more second nature before next July.

Again... thank you all.

Is a flash bracket worth it? My daughter is a light skinned blond that tends to get red eye. I thought the bracket would help with the red eye. Any suggestions on the hundreds of brackets out there, or is it a waste? If I get one, I was tinking of a flippable bracket to use it in both portrait and landscape orientaion.

Pat

Hi Pat,

Sounds like fun. But also sounds like you will be shooting in several different conditions. I am thinking that you might do best working with natural light given the bonfire and twilight wedding for candid shots and then the flash for indoors. Or maybe be prepared for a mix of flash/non-flash shots. Not to always be thinking of gear, but you might want to play with the 100 f/2.8 and 70-200 II to see if they let enough light in under "twilight" and "bonfire" conditions. They might. A few years ago I shot some fire dancers and looking at those shots and I did get some keepers at 1/60, f/2.8, ISO 3200. But I also remember wanting more light and throwing out a lot of shots as I tried higher ISO and slower shutter speeds. So you might consider something faster (85 f/1.2? 135 f/2?) and practice with it now. I think you have wider covered (24 f/1.4). Or maybe you feel good enough about ISO 6400/12,800 with the 1DX.

The other thing I would be prepared for is to be a little bold. For formal shots, tell people where you want them to be, how you want their hands and smiles. But, more important, even for a "journalistic" style of shoot, you still need to pose candids a little. Walk up to people, get groups together. You will know who is connected to whom so capture these people together for your daughter.

I think you can mix in both being the father of the bride and taking a few shots. But I would definitely do one or the other at a time. I like to have fun at weddings, so my camera often sits. But I try to make "rounds" about 3-4 times, every 45-60 minutes or so, and to capture major events. Also, capture the less obvious. The venue, the seats, the center pieces, a distinctive feature, etc.

Enjoy!

Here's another backup solution: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/N...spx?News=18440

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Originally Posted by Sean Setters

Here's another backup solution: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/N...spx?News=18440

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That's really nice. I have a few small drives with up to 1TB storage, but did not really want to lug around a laptop. This is nice in that you do not need the computer to us it. Not a bad price either. I have dual CF card slots so I can always have back ups put on cards as I go along. So I need to decide, do I buy more cards, or buy something like the Passport. I think having a second medium like this would be the wisest. The wireless transfer is not real helpful with this camera, but maybe for other uses.

Thanks, I may do this.

Pat

I just called Western Digital's technical support. Apparently, the My Passport Wireless Pro won't allow you to simply plug in a card reader (into the USB port) and have the drive copy images off the card. The only way it'll do that is through the SD card slot.

That makes the drive significantly less useful, in my opinion.

I only use CF cards... so count me out on this one. Too bad though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Kayaker72

Not to always be thinking of gear, but you might want to play with the 100 f/2.8 and 70-200 II to see if they let enough light in under "twilight" and "bonfire" conditions. They might. A few years ago I shot some fire dancers and looking at those shots and I did get some keepers at 1/60, f/2.8, ISO 3200. But I also remember wanting more light and throwing out a lot of shots as I tried higher ISO and slower shutter speeds. So you might consider something faster (85 f/1.2? 135 f/2?) and practice with it now. I think you have wider covered (24 f/1.4). Or maybe you feel good enough about ISO 6400/12,800 with the 1DX.

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Personally, I think I'd go with f/2.8 zooms for flexibility and raise the ISO as needed. I have both the 85L and 135L, my concern with using them at events is DoF – even with individual portraits, I generally stop the 85L down into the f/1.6-2 range, with >1 person in the shot you'll often need careful posing to get faces in focus at wider than f/2.8.

I get usable results with the 1D X at ISO 12800 with DxO Prime NR.

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Originally Posted by neuroanatomist

Personally, I think I'd go with f/2.8 zooms for flexibility and raise the ISO as needed. I have both the 85L and 135L, my concern with using them at events is DoF – even with individual portraits, I generally stop the 85L down into the f/1.6-2 range, with >1 person in the shot you'll often need careful posing to get faces in focus at wider than f/2.8.

I get usable results with the 1D X at ISO 12800 with DxO Prime NR.

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My 24mm f/1.4L II gets pretty good DOF and will be good for wide shots. I think I prefer the 70-200 over the macro for everything else. Other that the weight difference, it is more versatile and focus in low light is faster.

I have not been real happy with ISO's above 3200 on my 1D X, but that has been night sky type shots and the noise on the blank background of the sky can be more noticeable. I think you may be correct with the type of shot we are talking about here. We have people coming over tomorrow night and plan to have a fire (and somors:o) - I will try a few shots with the ISO set at 12,800 and see what Lightroom can do. You have been using DxO NR programs for some time now, and have suggested it in the past... so you have a fair amount of experience with it at night (based on some of your night shots) - Is it that much better than the current lightroom (I actually have ver. 5.x)? I think it was HDNitehawk that had said a little while ago that he thought that the latest Lightroom versions had caught up to DxO in NR. I may be remembering wrong, but I think it was him and I think that was the basic point. I typically limit myself to 1600, but will go to 3200 if needed. I would like to use higher ISO's... 12,800 would be very helpful in the type of shots I like to do.

Pat

Edit: I was wrong - HDNitehawk was comparing Lightroom and DPP. Not DxO. Sorry about that.
http://community.the-digital-picture.com/showthread.php?t=8266&page=2

Full disclaimer: I'm the kind of guy who will take a near-truckload of lighting gear to a studio shoot, and an armload to the zoo with family. Speedlights, to me, just aren't enough. Outdoors, especially against sunlight, you're going to end up against what I call the sync speed curve: ISO 100, 1/250th, and now you're stuck living at f/5.6 or f/9 depending on conditions. Once you have to stop down, you're throwing away some of your speedy light, and now you have to cheat them closer and closer to the subject to have any hope of them doing what you want, especially if you're shooting through ANY modifier (even a 1/4 CTO gel costs you 1/3 stop). HSS lets you open up, but my non-scientific research suggests that as soon as you transition to HSS, you've given up 1-2 stops more, so HSS is only an option if you were ahead of the curve already but you want thin DoF.

If it were me, I'd take a good, hard look at (renting or buying) a Profoto B2 kit. A one-light kit means you could put the sun behind and fill the front, or put the sun in front on one side and fill on the other. A Zoom Reflector is relatively compact and very powerful. An OCF 1x3 softbox is quite lightweight and will fit in a suitcase just fine. You can get a $6 brass thingy to screw on top of a monopod (if you'd have a holder) or a tripod to use as an impromptu stand. The B2 is 4-5x the power of a 580EXII, with better recycle time, and being a separate pack/head kit, helps keep the center of gravity lower. It can do HSS so you can do thin DoF if you wish, but it also has the power so you can keep it comfortably back out of the frame.

Not a direct comparison reference shot, but at least a worthy example of what these can do. I shot team photos for a charity walk in April, and had three lights: a Profoto B1 to my far left, with a Zoom Reflector, another B1 just barely to my left, with a Widezoom Reflector (smoother coverage, but big enough that you can't put it in a suitcase), and a B2 to my right, with a Magnum Reflector (gains a stop on the Zoom Reflector). Yes, it was three lights, but they were all about a half-stop under their max (in the hopes of making the batteries last, which they did far better than I expected) and I kept them back far enough that I could easily move one large group out of the way to my right while another group came in from my left and they wouldn't be a major trip hazard. See http://photos.templin.org/images/TeamBlitz-101.jpg

Also, I was a guest at a family wedding and brought a "lightweight kit", in this case a B1 (one stop more power than a B2, but all the weight in one place so it can be top-heavy) and my 1x3 softbox. I shot available light during the ceremony, then added the light when they drove the green pickup over to the reception. In order to help out the paid photographer (who was essentially screwed by the toast being so late), I just turned on the modeling light (20W LED, comparable to a 70W incandescent bulb) and took the remote off so I wouldn't fire the B1 during those shots. See https://www.flickr.com/photos/alibea...57657308084120 for what I got.