Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
Hi everyone,
I just had a simple question, you'll have to excuse me if my question sounds really obvious, I am a beginner in photography. I have an interest in wildlife photography and as you can imagine, one of the goals that I wish to accomplish is to get excellent shots of wildlife (professional grade). I have a 70-300mm telephoto zoom lens that I use, it is the only lens I have. I have recently looked into different flashes (not knowing if they would benefit me or not out in the field) for my Canon 50D. I guess my basic question in a broad sense is if flash (Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash, or any other good flash) would benefit pictures taken outside in the daytime or possibly night. As most of you know, it isn't easy to get close to wildlife without spooking them, so typically the distance from me to my subject is not close, but yet not hundreds of feet away (for the most part). Would a flash be nessasary for a shot that isa good distance away? Night shots are something that I am also interested in, but my built in flash gives the picture that rough look and of course has the red-eye effect on it. I would assume flash (not built in, but more advanced), would be acceptable for subjects at night, such as owls and other nocturnal wildlife? Is there a certain "distance" (both day and night) that using a flash wouldn't benefit the picture? Thanks for your help, again sorry if my questions seem a little broad.
Re: Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
Theres a nifty little product out there called a "Better Beamer" flash extender. I've personally never used it but I have seen it used with very nice results. If you got a flash for wildlife photography, I would also get one of the flash extenders, there pretty inexpensive.
Thanks
Joel
Re: Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
Flash can help, as long as its burst of light doesn't spook the wildlife. You're going to have a challenge though, as the 70-300 is only f/5.6 on the long end, and that cuts the amount of light coming into the sensor (whether ambient or flash). Daytime will be tough, as the guide number of the 580EX II is 58m or 190', measured at ISO 100 and f/1. You'd need at least ISO 560 at f/5.6 if you're shooting subjects 190' away (unless you dialed in some - flash exposure compensation). At ISO 640 (the next likely real ISO setting) and f/5.6 in daylight, you're probably looking at shutter speeds faster than 1/250th (the max sync speed of your 50D), so you'd have to use high-speed sync on the flash and that'll rob some more power from the flash. Nighttime should be generally easier - as ambient goes down you'll be increasing your ISO which will help the flash fire easier.
All that said, the 580EX II is a great flash, and I have four of them. :) You may find that remote flash might get the light closer to your subject, either by using a second flash as remote or by using some wireless triggers. Or, just use the triggers to allow you to "gang together" multiple flashes if you find that's what's missing in your photos.
Browse the "Bulletin Archives" at Birds as Art (http://www.birdsasart.com/bn.html). Art Morris is very good at showing the settings used for pictures that he's taken, and touching on why he used those settings. You may have to buy (and likely will want to buy) some of his books to truly get the logic behind his magic, but I'm sure you'll agree he's got lots of great stuff.
Re: Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
Quote:
Originally Posted by peety3
the guide number of the 580EX II is 58m or 190', measured at ISO 100 and f/1. You'd need at least ISO 560 at f/5.6 if you're shooting subjects 190' away
f/5.6 is 5 stops slower than f/1(1.0, 1.4, 2.0, 2.8, 4.0, 5.6, etc) correct? Wouldn't you need an ISO of 3200 (100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200) to maintain the guide number of 58m or 190'? I'm not being a wise-guy, I'm just trying to understand because I am not very well versed when it comes to flash-photography :)
Re: Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
You might be quite right, I'm "pre-coffee" (still) at the moment. :D
Re: Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Elberson
f/5.6 is 5 stops slower than f/1(1.0, 1.4, 2.0, 2.8, 4.0, 5.6, etc) correct? Wouldn't you need an ISO of 3200 (100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200) to maintain the guide number of 58m or 190'? I'm not being a wise-guy, I'm just trying to understand because I am not very well versed when it comes to flash-photography :)
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As the coffee kicks in, I realize you're quite correct. I shoulda known better than to type before coffee (and pop-tarts...).
So, ISO3200 at f/5.6 is going to be pushing the shutter speed limits of the camera, will be deep into high-speed sync territory, and will limit the contribution that your flash will offer. If used for fill, it might be enough. You may need to cheat in any way possible to get the flash closer to the subject. I used a remote flash to achieve this a week ago while shooting a bicycling event. On-camera flash contributed to the lighting of the scene, but all too often the remote flash was doing the heavy lifting. Here are a few examples:
All shots: 1D Mark III, 70-200/2.8IS, 580EX II on-camera, 580EX II off-camera on stand about 12' forward and to the left of the shots, shooting at about a 45' angle between down the road and across the road. Varying cloudiness all morning.
ISO 100, f/5, 1/200th, lens at 200mm (f/5 for more DoF, I think):
http://photos.templin.org/albums/Bik...0230.sized.jpg
ISO 100, f/2.8, 1/640th, lens at 105mm (f/2.8 for thin DoF):
http://photos.templin.org/albums/Bik...0422.sized.jpg
ISO 100, f/2.8, 1/320th, lens at 125mm:
http://photos.templin.org/albums/Bik...0742.sized.jpg
You can see the ground "blast" of the remote flash, from left-side-near to right-side-farther-back.
As I understand it, using an on-camera flash to trigger remotes is power-hungry. I also knew that I'd be chasing some clouds all morning. In the hopes of simplifying the remote triggering, I spent most of the morning with the flashes set to manual 1/2 power and ignored how well they contributed to the shot. At times, I'd experiment with the flashes at full power. Towards the end of my time at this particular spot, the clouds really rolled in, and I was showing speeds of 1/200th at ISO 100 f/2.8. Full power flashes were too much, for almost any of the shots I was taking, so then I went E-TTL (auto flash exposure), possibly with some - flash exposure compensation dialed in (don't remember, and don't have the originals handy to check). I know it's not wildlife, but it's at least an example of some outdoor shooting. These were all done with a monopod, and the on-camera flash had a CP-E4 external battery pack (which I absolutely love, and think is an essential piece for any/every 580EX II out there!).
Over the course of about two hours shooting there, maybe 600 shots total and about 400 shots taken with flash, I absolutely drained the remote flash. It was dead as a doornail, not blinking its red ready light and it probably just went to sleep. The on-camera flash was getting tired too, and then I swapped the three sets of batteries (1 in flash, 2 in battery pack). These shots were challenging, as I had to balance the desire to capture expressions with waiting for the riders to ride into my "prime" flash coverage zone.
Thankfully, this guy just struck his pose and rode with it:
http://photos.templin.org/albums/Bik...0498.sized.jpg
Re: Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
Cool shots! I like the varying DOF. It looks like it wasa pretty overcast day. Were you using the flash just for fill or did it help you stop action? I'm assuming based on the low ISO you were using it was just to grab some more detail in the biker's facial expressions? I want to start experiementing with off-camera flash both indoors and out. So you were using the on-camera 580's infrared port to trigger the slave?
Re: Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
Re: Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
Overcast day, no doubt. I was at that spot from about 9:30 until 11:45, and the skies opened up around 1:30 and very heavily by 2:00. The start (around 7:00 and about 20-30 miles away) was decent, blue-ish from the clouds but nothing much.
I wanted to capture the background, so I was shooting in aperture priority (where the camera still meters for ambient). Flash was for fill, detail, definition, etc.
Actually, the 580 uses the flash tube to do the triggering. It's so fast that you can't really detect it apart from the actual flash.
Full set from that event is at http://photos.templin.org/gallery/BikeMS09SAMS - enjoy! Approximately 3,000 cyclists, two photographers (my girlfriend and I) doing "event" photography. A separate group, Brightroom, does the individual rider photography (and I have to admit that they do the back-end stuff extremely well). Our task was to capture the spirit and size of the event, top fund-raisers, those who show a special connection to the heart of the event, as well as sponsors and such.
I'll do a separate post in a moment with some other points of reference from another event.
Re: Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
Here are some examples from another event two weeks earlier. It's the largest non-profit cycling event in the country, with 13,000 riders (registration filled in 7 hours!) and an absolute "machine" of logistics. I've ridden it twice before, and truly debated whether I wanted to shoot or ride. As I recall, none of this is done with remote flashes, just a 580EX II on-camera. I shot that weekend with a rented 5D and my 1D Mark III, using a 16-35/2.8, 24-70/2.8, and 70-200/2.8IS.
Oh, forgot: one shot Friday night to show the sponsored vehicles (and the awful clouds) did have remote flash:
http://photos.templin.org/albums/200...0056.sized.jpg
1D Mark III, 24-70/2.8 at 24mm, f/10, 1/250th. I think I knocked ambient down 2-3 stops for this (still in aperture priority, just dialed in some -EC) to get the definition in the clouds and the hotel. On-camera flash was pointed somewhat left, so it'd light the pickup direct but also reach enough to the left to trigger the remote flash. Remote flash was on a stand left of the camera, striking across the pickup.
Here's one of my favorites:
http://photos.templin.org/albums/200...0483.sized.jpg
5D, 24-70/2.8 at 42mm, ISO L (50), shutter-priority at 1/50th, f/5. Flash set to second-curtain, so the action is frozen at the end of the shot and not the beginning.
http://photos.templin.org/albums/200...0351.sized.jpg
1D Mark III, 70-200/2.8IS at 120mm, ISO 160, f/2.8 at 1/320th. I think it's just "plain vanilla" flash (which Canon morphs into fill flash at bright enough exposures), but the flash is evident from the reflectors on the distant bikes. This was a particularly tough section to shoot, as the trees were so random (and I kept hiking to find new vantage points and inspiration) that my meter was all over the map.
Full gallery from that event at http://photos.templin.org/gallery/2009BP - enjoy!
Note to self, shared with all here: don't rent an unfamiliar camera for what will likely be the biggest gig of the year for you. I've "become one" with my 1D Mark III, and the 5D (original) was simply so much different than my main camera that it was a hindrance in many ways. I felt a need to keep the widest lens on the 5D, so if I had the 24-70 and 70-200 out and felt it was time to go wider, I'd switch the 5D to the 16-35 and the 1D3 to the 24-70, resulting in a lot of lens switching. For the second big event (shown in earlier examples on that long, straight roadway), I rented another 1D Mark III and everything just became easier.
Re: Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
Quote:
Originally Posted by peety3
Love this effect! Really cool picture :)
Re: Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
Peety3.....really appreciate your cycling shots for other than being an obsessed photographer, I'm an avid biker; I participate in various centuries in MA, NH, ME and I'm participating in my first Pan Mass Challenge in August.
But I digress....I've just rec'd my 580EX ll (40D body) for fill light in photographing Hummingbirds and would like to photograph biking events I'm not particpating in (understand your quandary).
So, if you don't mind, I'd like to con't the cycling discussion off line so I may get some info, tips and an explanation of the 2nd curtain pic.
I can be reached at; bikejanitor@comcast.net
Regards
Bill
Re: Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill W
But I digress....I've just rec'd my 580EX ll (40D body) for fill light in photographing Hummingbirds and would like to photograph biking events I'm not particpating in (understand your quandary).
Previously, I didn't let it be a quandary; I'd take my old Minolta or since then my Rebel XTi along for bike rides. Oddly, it never seems heavy until the battery goes dead. :)
Here are my two favorite "on-bike" sets:
http://photos.templin.org/gallery/2007ATLms150 (2007 Atlanta MS150):
http://photos.templin.org/albums/200...4355.sized.jpg
http://photos.templin.org/albums/200...4084.sized.jpg
http://photos.templin.org/gallery/2007PADms150 (2007 PA Dutch MS150):
http://photos.templin.org/albums/200...9371.sized.jpg
http://photos.templin.org/albums/200...9336.sized.jpg
Re: Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash
Oh, one more favorite, showing my "dashboard" and the gal I used to ride for (very long story...):
http://photos.templin.org/albums/200...4015.sized.jpg
(Yes, I'm doing 23.5 miles per hour, accelerating to about 41mph in the next mile going downhill!)
