Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

**Chris White** · 06-04-2010, 12:32 PM

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<p class="MsoNormal"]Here is a debate I have not seen yet. I realize these are
two different cameras and are more complementary than similar. I know there are
many 5D shooters in the forums; I do not know how many of you use the 1D Mark
IV.
<p class="MsoNormal"]My body now is a 50D, which I will be retaining for the foreseeable
future. My main subjects are my moving children and their sports, which the 50D
does well with and I know the 1D Mark IV will excel at. I have been saving
towards one since I first read Bryan’s review. I am looking for better low
light performance for things like my daughter’s dance recital.
<p class="MsoNormal"]Where I am running into a tempting detour is at the 5D Mark
II. I have enough to order it today with the current rebate being offered as
the gentle push. Moreover, I have seen the advice in the forums, and generally
agree with it, that the best equipment is that which is in your hands.

<span style="font-family: Symbol;"]<span> Does anyone have an opinion on how the 1D Mark IV
does in low light compared to the 5D Mark II?

<span style="font-family: Symbol;"]<span><span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman';"]
I know the 1D Mark IV has the better AF system
in general, but how is it in low light?

<span style="font-family: Symbol;"]<span><span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman';"]
How do images from the 1.3 H sensor compare to
the full frame, especially cropped?

<p class="MsoNormal"]I am getting by currently with the 50D, so I certainly could
wait to pull the trigger. I am looking for thoughts whether to get the 5D<span> Mark II, which would put me back to ground
zero towards the 1D Mark IV, or continue my original path and keep the 1D Mark
IV goal moving forward.
<p class="MsoNormal"]Thank you for your thoughts,
<p class="MsoNormal"]Chris

**Brendan7** · 06-04-2010, 01:35 PM

If you needed a 1D Mark IV you wouldn't be asking this question.

Anyways, I suggest you buy the 7D and 5D2. The 7D does 95% of what the 1D4 does for $3000 less. Use that $3000 to buy the 5D2 and you have 2 great bodies -- a great action body and a superb portrait body. BTW, both ARE weather-sealed: I've used my 7D and a friend's 5D2 in snow and heavy rain. No problem.

**mikehillman89** · 06-04-2010, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Brendan7

If you needed a 1D Mark IV you wouldn't be asking this question.

Anyways, I suggest you buy the 7D and 5D2. The 7D does 95% of what the 1D4 does for $3000 less. Use that $3000 to buy the 5D2 and you have 2 great bodies -- a great action body and a superb portrait body. BTW, both ARE weather-sealed: I've used my 7D and a friend's 5D2 in snow and heavy rain. No problem.
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>

Seconded.

**Chris White** · 06-04-2010, 02:08 PM

Thanks for the opinions Brendan and Mike.

Need is best viewed in perspective. The argument could be made that I did not need the 50D. I did consider the 7D, but for me the upgrade was not worth the expense. I have the grip and extra batteries for the 50D. By the time I add those to a 7D it makes it more expensive in an apples-to-apples comparison. In my real world shooting, I do not feel that I would see enough of a difference to justify the cost of a minor upgrade to me. The 40D to 50D question some had when the 50D came out.

With that in mind, I looked at the 5D Mark II, as complementing the 50D, for studio work and darker, slower moving venues. I would be expanding my options more than duplicating them.

Chris

**Brendan7** · 06-04-2010, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Chris White

but for me the upgrade was not worth the expense. I have the grip and extra batteries for the 50D. By the time I add those to a 7D it makes it more expensive in an apples-to-apples comparison. In my real world shooting, I do not feel that I would see enough of a difference to justify the cost of a minor upgrade to me.

I wouldn't call upgrading from a 50d to a 7d a minor upgrade. As peety3 said, "the 7d is light years ahead of the xxd bodies". Much better build, much better viewfinder, much better high ISO performance (1600 is actually USABLE!), much better AF, much better weather sealing, much better sharpness. Not a minor upgrade.

Originally Posted by Chris White

The 40D to 50D question some had when the 50D came out.

The 40D and 50D are almost the same camera. The 7D is nothing like the 40d or 50d. It's in a different class and costs $700 more for a reason.

However, I will notice you said it was a minor upgrade "for you" so I might think that you could sell your 50d and buy a 1D4. It might not be quite as good as a 5D2 at lowlight and high ISO photography, but it'll certainly handily outperform your 50d until a 5D2 (or 5D3) is a possible buy.

my 2¢

**mikehillman89** · 06-04-2010, 02:14 PM

Are you located in Canada?

**Brendan7** · 06-04-2010, 02:15 PM

And BTW, the 7D DOES do 95% of what the 1D4 does. It's all about how important that 5% is to you (are you going to dump your camera in frozen seawater, do you need 10fps instead of 8fps, etc).

Alan · 06-04-2010, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by mikehillman89

Originally Posted by Brendan7

If you needed a 1D Mark IV you wouldn't be asking this question.

Anyways, I suggest you buy the 7D and 5D2. The 7D does 95% of what the 1D4 does for $3000 less. Use that $3000 to buy the 5D2 and you have 2 great bodies -- a great action body and a superb portrait body. BTW, both ARE weather-sealed: I've used my 7D and a friend's 5D2 in snow and heavy rain. No problem.
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>

Seconded.
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>

I'm coming late to this party, but as an owner of the 7D and 5D2.....

Thirded...[

]

Is there such a word?

**mikehillman89** · 06-04-2010, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Alan

I'm coming late to this party, but as an owner of the 7D and 5D2.....

Thirded...[img]/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]

Is there such a word?
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>

There is now apparently... Wow so my BB has been off the hook all day today! I'm gone for a few hours and all these posts happen that I want to reply to!!! For all you Canadian folks out there get a 7D now for only $1850 with a grip and extra battery!

**Jon Ruyle** · 06-04-2010, 06:15 PM

Chris-

I faced a similar choice long ago- but it was between the 1DIIN and the 5D (original). There was no 7D option back then, of course.

I went with the 1DIIN, and while I'm not exactly sorry I got it (especially now that I have a 5DII and the 1DIIN compliments it far better than a 5D would), I don't think I made the correct choice. I wanted mostly to take macro pictures and pictures of the kids. I reasoned that the kids move quickly and that I needed the best autofocus I could get. In my case, however, it turned out that most of my best pictures were of still kids (portraits) rather than action photos. In addition, I took a lot of pictures in low light, and the 5DII would have given me better high ISO performance.

As to your specific questions:

Originally Posted by Chris White

Does anyone have an opinion on how the 1D Mark IV
does in low light compared to the 5D Mark II?

Plenty of people do. Instead of an opinion, though, I'll give you some numbers. DXOMark gives the 5DII a score of 1815 and the 1DIV a score of 1320. Basically this means (if you believe the folks at DXOMark, and I haven't met anyone who doesn't) that the 5DII sensor at ISO1815 has about as much noise as the 1DIV sensor at ISO1320 (in other words, it will give you the same image in 2/3 the light). The 5DII probably has more pattern noise at very high ISO (or in very dark areas at moderately high ISO). 5DII pattern noise is an issue for some, but hasn't been a big deal for me under ISO 6400.

Originally Posted by Chris White

<span style="font-family: Symbol;"]<span><span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman';"]
I know the 1D Mark IV has the better AF system
in general, but how is it in low light?

The 1DIV af will work better in low light. It is rated to work in 1/2 stop lower light, and has more af points (which makes it easier for one to lock on).

This said, I've been very happy with the 5DII af performance in low light (I was not happy with how the 1DIIN worked in low light... it is rated a full stop worse in this regard than the 1DIV, though, with the 5DII halfway between the two)

Originally Posted by Chris White

<span style="font-family: Symbol;"]<span><span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman';"]
How do images from the 1.3 H sensor compare to
the full frame, especially cropped?

The effect of sensor size on image quality has been long and bitterly debated on this site and elsewhere (maybe not so bitterly, but it sounds dramatic so what the heck). My opinion based on experience using the 1DIIN and the 5DII is that the larger sensor gives significantly better image quality. Either will give better IQ than the 50D. We all know from experience how much impact cropping has on IQ. (Of course, it isn't quite that simple: there are other differences besides sensor size. For one thing, the 1DIV has a higher pixel density than the 5DII).

Basically, IMO, it just comes down to better low light performance and thinner DOF with the full frame camera, vs. a better tracking autofocus on the 1DIV. (You haven't mentioned desire for wide angle performance, but both the 7D and 5DII (and your 50D for that matter) have the edge here over the 1DIV)

I've never used the 1DIV, but I would definitely choose the 5DII for non-moving subjects. I would choose the 1DIV for sports or other photography involving fast moving objects.

In your position, I would buy a 5DII first, then a 7D (instead of a 1DIV). That way you get the absolute best canon has to offer for non moving subjects, and something very very good for moving subjects. And the combination is far more versatile than the 1DIV alone.

Best of luck.

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