Cokin Filter Holders vs ? , Need Landscape Advice

[HDNitehawk]

I posted a thread about ND filters a few days ago, and of course the square drop in filters were mentioned. This got me researching the different brands and I think I am going to go ahead and try to get a system.


I am leaving in two weeks so I need to get somthing ordered now if I want it in time.


The dilemma is that you can't get a Cokin holder. I looked at Lee and its the same.


I found this available but it seems to be over kill to just get a holder. The holder is alone is less than $100 bucks. Would the Matte Box really be any help for Landscape?


[View:http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/483764-REG/Cokin_CZ360_Matte_Box_Model_Z360.html]


So for landscape work what is the best way to head?


The one I posted has the Z Holder. Cokin has the X holder but would it be any advantage for Full Frame. Widest lens I have now is the 16-35mm, someday I may buy the 14mm L.


Is thereholder brand out that would perform as well? Would the actual filters from one manufacture work fine between the different manufactures? it looks to me that some of Cokin's filters might be thicker than would be allowed in some off brand models.


Thanks for the Input

[neuroanatomist]

The one I posted has the Z Holder. Cokin has the X holder but would it be any advantage for Full Frame. Widest lens I have now is the 16-35mm, someday I may buy the 14mm L.

The Cokin Z-Pro will vingette at wider than 20mm AoV on FF (seeTrondster's reply inthis thread).


The Lee holders have been out of stock since I started looking at them (maybe as much as a year ago, although I don't check all that often).


For much less than the matte box you linked, B&H has the Schneider Landscape Control Kit, which includes a holder, 77mm adapter, and a 2-stop soft-edge grad ND. Schneider is the parent company of B+W Filters, and their rectangular filters are made of Schott glass, instead of resin like most other rectangular filters). It is similar in size to the Z-Pro (i.e. it may vigenette at 16mm, although it looks thinner than the Cokin holder), meaning it will take Cokin Z, Lee, and Singh-Ray 4" filters.


EDIT: you mentioned the 16-35mm II - for that, you'd just exchange the 77mm adapter included in the above-linked kit for an 82mm adapter. Oddly, B&H doesn't sell them, but Adorama does (link); note that it's branded Century Optics, which like B+W is a sub-brand of Schnieder, aimed at the film/cinema market.


I also notice that the sell just the 4" holder (no grad ND) under the Century brand, and it might even be the same as the Lee holder (except that it is actually in stock at Adorama) - note the description on the Adorama page, which matches that on the Schnieder Optics website: "Schneider Optics is pleased to offer the new 4” Filter Holder. Manufactured in partnership with Lee Filters, the 4” Filter Holder is made to hold Schneider Motion Picture and Television 4mm thick water-white Schott glass filters that are available in 4x4 and 4x5.65 sizes."

[Sean Setters]

What's wrong with a P-series Cokin and the cheap adapter ring and frame? I'm seriously considering this Frame / Grad ND kitand an adapter ring.

[Jonathan Huyer]

For an interesting comparison between the Cokin and Lee filter systems, have a look at this short video by Darwin Wiggett:


[View:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXGQYY84PwI&feature=player_embedded]

[HDNitehawk]

<p sizset="39" sizcache="18"]What's wrong with a P-series Cokin and the cheap adapter ring and frame? I'm seriously considering this Frame / Grad ND kitand an adapter ring.

[View:http://www.cokin.co.uk/pages/cokinP.htm]


If I am wrong about this please correct me, as this is just my understanding so far. From what Ihave read at Cokin website, P series is for 28mm and above. If you have the special P-Wide holder you can go down to 20mm but only use one filter. On your 7D I think the P series is adequate but from what I read so far using the 5D and the 24mm I need to go to the Z system. If I want to ger real wide with the 16mm I would need theX system.But the Pmay be a cheaper alternative to just get me by till I can get the other system.


Jonathan, thanks for the link. From other articles I had read it appeared that the Lee would be the better choice. But apparently that's not the case.


John, I am still going over your suggestions. The Schneider system seems kind of pricey, I am going to try and find some reviews on it to see how it stacks up. If it were a cheaper system it would be an easy decision for me, buy it to get by then get what I really want later.

[HDNitehawk]

John


I have been researching the Schneider system all morning. From the price it should you would think it would give you extremely good quality.


I have a few concerns, it looks like they modified a Lee holder to hold 4mm instead of 2mm. If you use the Cokin 2mm filters with this system wouldn't you have to take it apart and re modify it? Otherwise the 2mm filter wouldn't sit properly.


Looking at Schneiders other items and what I think I need (which may be in error). It would be quit an outlay for filters.


These are the things I see that I might need to go with it:


[View:http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/399444-REG/Schneider_68050756_4x5_65_Graduated_Neutral_Densit y.html]


[View:http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/399440-REG/Schneider_68050655_4x5_65_Graduated_Neutral_Densit y.html]


[View:http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/398884-REG/Schneider_68040956_Neutral_Density_ND_0_9.html]


[View:http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/398948-REG/Schneider_68013144_Circular_True_Polarizing_Filter _4.html]


A small outlay of $1,399 to just get started down the Schneider path. About twice the money, would shot glass really be worth it at over 2x the money?


I had been trying to figure out the Horizontal / Vertical tag. I know it is the way the gradation lays on the glass, but I am not sure which way is which.


I made a few phone calls this morning, both local and to some internet shops. One of the reps for Cokin said it was next to impossible to get a Z holder any where.


Rick

[neuroanatomist]

A small outlay of $1,399 to just get started down the Schneider path. About twice the money, would shot glass really be worth it at over 2x the money?

I'm inclinced to think no on that one. The glass is likely to be more scratch-resistant, but unless you're using the filters very frequently, I think that's unlikely to be a huge advantage.

I had been trying to figure out the Horizontal / Vertical tag. I know it is the way the gradation lays on the glass, but I am not sure which way is which.

You want the vertical, not the horizontal.


Vertical<span style="white-space: pre;"] Horizontal





With the horizontal, sliding it up and down in the holder would not change the position of the dividing line. The horizontal filters are intended for cinematographers, I think.

I made a few phone calls this morning, both local and to some internet shops. One of the reps for Cokin said it was next to impossible to get a Z holder any where.

That's really the only reason to consider the Schneider system - neither the Cokin Z nor the Lee systems are currently available. In fact, Cokin's website has been down since may, showing only an ISP logo (maybe Cokin couldn't pay the bill?).


Perhaps you could consider just getting the filters without the holder, and simply hand-holding them for your shots.

[conropl]

Since going FF I cannot use my Cokin system w/o vignetting, so I have been hand holding the filter. I know I can buy a filter holding system, but there is always something I would rather buy for the money. Today I ran across this. Looks like it will work for a budget hold. It does not solve the need to stack filters, but I try not to anyway. Take it for what it is worth... I will probably give it a try.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnandshelly/8555063550/

He uses felt on the ring and clips to protect the filter.

Pat

[Sean Setters]

That's a brilliantly simple solution...

[jrw]

It is also possible to hand hold the filter on the end of the lens. It is far quicker than using a holder. Do this a lot myself. Provided you don't press the filter on the lens when adjusting position there is no risk of scratching. Not convenient for long exposures though.
A hair elastic will also work to hold filters in place. Just slide it on and it will catch on the edge behind the hood mount on most lenses.
Holders really come into their own for stacking filters as they let you easily adjust each one independently.