1dmk4 ?

[Mickw]

Today is one of those very rare days. Ones that come along once in long long time. Im on holiday, ive got a better new job (news came through today), the plans for the tour of Utah on holiday, finished today, new pay agreed today (more
$$$'s). This unfortunatly has led me to think about squandering the pay rise on a new camera. I own a 1DS3 which i wont change as i love it and dont need to change it. What i was wondering was....i own a 7D which i love. Its a bit bruised and battered from sports and bad weather but its one top camera. Problem is with the new found wealth i can now afford an upgrade. Its for sports/wildlife only so need the crop for distance work. Im off on a pro animal shoot soon and top top quality is what im after. Whilst the 1D gives me this the 7D struggles. Unfortunaly in poor weather the 7D's iso performance isnt quiet what i want.

So any 1d4 owners feel the upgrade is worth it? Remember im after top quality in a sports shooting camera and the prices with the new 1DX are pretty good right now.

Happy days. Im off for a beer or three.

Mick

[HDNitehawk]

I have the 1D IV, the AF system is a huge jump from the 7D. That is the major thing you will notice.The 1D IV IQ is going to be better straight out of the camera. The 7D's can be improved to what you get out of the 1D IV but it takes some work in post and looks a little flatter IMO.If you want the top quality and you don't mind spending the extra $$$ it is worth it. I say that assuming you have the good glass to go with it. If you plan on putting a 100-400mm on the 1D IV all I can say is get the glass first.


What is a "pro animal shoot"? Most animal's I photograph are armatures.

[ChadS]

@Mick 'grats on the new job. If you're after top-quality images then I don't think the 7D should even be considered compared to a new 1D4. The AF of the 7D is good but I believe the 1D4 is better and it's a larger sensor (not FF but still an improvement) so it should have better high-iso performance. Als, the 1-series bodies are sealed.

All that said, I have a couple of questions:
1) can you wait 'til the 1DX is released? Since we may not know when that it is it's probably a "no."
2) Do you find yourself cropping the images from the 7D? The pixels on the 7D are smaller than on the 1D4 (and there are more of them) so that if you have enough light to not worry about noise and your glass is good enough you'll be able to dig more detail off the sensor of the &d than the 1D4 - in theory...
3)The pixels on the 1Ds3 are only slightly larger than on the 1D4 but there are (again) more of them. So if you can use a longer lens for your shots to get the same framed image (not necessarily an option I realize) you'll once again have more detailed pixels to crop - at a slower frame rate.

[HDNitehawk]

Chad, what you will find is that the 7D will most likely have a sharper image than the 1Ds III cropped. Not long ago there as a thread comparing the 7D to the 5D II cropped image. The 5D II has the same sensor as the 1Ds III, the 7D slightly beat the 5D II’s IQ.

After owning the 1D IV for a year, I do not think the 7D could beat the 1D IV’s cropped picture, although I am sure it might be close.

There is a quality to the 1D IV’s picture that cannot be measured in pixel count. It is my theory it is most likely that it can be measured by the quality of the firmware installed.For wildlife and sports the accuracy of the AF system and speed are big factor.

The 1D X will no doubt fill this requirement if a person is willing to upsize all of their gear to get more reach. If my intrest was sports I would be more interested in the 1D X, for wildlife...maybe not.

[ChadS]

@HDNitehawk in the comparisons of the 1DS3/5D2 cropped images vs. the 7D's were those pictures shot with a longer lens on the FF cameras or using the same lens? Using the same lens in enough light I'd expect the higher pixel density of the 7D to win (ignoring AF, etc.) if the glass is good enough. Mind you, that's some good glass. However, if I were to reshoot the same shot so that my object were framed the same I'd expect the more pixels of the FF sensor to have superior IQ - and FAR better high-ISO performance to boot. Of course, one can't always go buy lenses 60% longer than they've currently got at the same f/# so the point is moot. I was just curious (as all the FF cameras are out of my price range at the moment but the 7D may be close).

[HDNitehawk]

Actually the one I was referring to was the same lens, with the 5D II cropped to match the 7D’s. There is another thread later that comparisons were made with different lens lengths to get the same framing.

But in the instance were talking about I think you have to look at the same lens cropped, because if you are shooting wildlife you will most likely have your longest lens available in use as you are normally reach limited.

What was found is that the 7D can produce an image with slightly better IQ than the 5D II cropped down. However the 7D image had more post processing than the 5D II to get it to that point. This is one reason I have a conspiracy theory, and it is that Canon’s current sensors and cameras are limited more by the firmware inside than the technology inside. For instance I can take a picture with my 1D IV, and out of the camera it is going be really good, but the 1D IV picture doesn’t have a lot of head room for improvement. The 7D has a lot of head room for improvement. I think that Canon purposely dumb’s down their software as the model numbers get lower.

For Mickw's purpose, I have to say that if he wants the best Canon sports and wildlife camera available, it is the 1D IV. The 1D IV AF system trumps the 7D's 1.6 crop factor easily.

[Mickw]

Thanks everyone for your advice.

Firsty, pro animal shoot, thats an amateur going to take pics with a pro.

Next, what im after is for sports/wildlife in poor weather. Ill use my 1DS3 a lot of the time but its frame rate is very poor. What the question is is simple.

When the weather is bad and i need top quality pics at a distance, when i need a top focusing system should i buy the 1DS4 or stick with the 7D? Yes i know i need to crop a bit but the one thing some people forget is this...................What size do you print at. A Canon G10 will give the same quality as a Hassleblad at A3 taken in the same conditions. I print at A3.

The glass i use is Canons best.

BUT, there is one thing i must say. Whilst many may make comment about comparing one sensor to another, i have compared my 1DS3 to the 7D like for like and whilst i cant trell any differance in resolution, the 1DS3 has a deep tonal quality that is way beyond the 7D.

Mick

[ChadS]

Foul weather suggest a 1-series body.

[HDNitehawk]

Mick

I think you will see that same "tonal" quality out of the 1D IV you see out of your 1Ds III.

The real benefit of the 7D over the 1D IV is the crop factor and if you stick with the 7D it will keep $3,400 in your pocket to buy something else.

The 1D IV will do every other thing you have asked for and more. Like I said before, the AF system was worth the upgrade to me. But I am an amateur, if I miss the shot I still eat. But I take my hobbies serious, if I spend days planning a trip, hours getting to a location and hours waiting for a pic I want the highest chance I can get to make sure I get the shot. The 1D IV will do that. But if I was still using my 50D, I would be just as happy with my hobby. Is it worth the upgrade is a personal question that each of us amateurs have to ask ourselves.

You could wait several months for the 1D X. It might serve your needs even better.

Good Luck with what you decide.

[Joel Eade]

If you have the extra $$ I would keep BOTH bodies you currently have AND purchase a 1DMKIV.

Then you will have a back up fast frame rate camera. You won't get much trade in for a "beat up" 7D anyway.