Thoughts on a 2nd body

[Superman]

Hi everyone,


My wife and I have a T1i w/17-40 f/4, 50 f/1.8 and 70-200 f/4. We mostly take pictures of our (almost) 5 year old daughter and of the places we go and things we have done on our family vacations (got Pacific Coast comming up in April).


We are finding that we are fighting over the camera and with our 2nd baby on the way (August) we are thinking about the idea of getting a 2nd body. There have been a # of conversations already on these forums but mostly surrounding the T2i vs the 7D. I am thankful to have seen all the comments on this discussion but I am looking for some specific thoughts on the decision I am facing.


I have mentioned in previous posts that I am leaning towards a 5DmkII with the 24-105 f/4 kit. It was part of thought process when I bought the 17-40 and 70-200. If I do go this route, I plan to splurge on the 17-55 f/2.8 ef-s lens for the T1i.


Lately, I am hearing some rumors that a mkIII might be on the way some 6-18 months from now. I'm also starting to 2nd guess my original plan and consider the 7D. It seems like a great camera and I'll save a few bucks. My wife and I are amateurs really and we are worried that the 5D and FF camera's in general are a little beyond a skill level at this point.


Curious to hear some of the thoughts and suggestions from everyone. Coin is there for this kind of purchase but short of being filthy rich, no one wants to throw money away and I am no different. My wife and I agree that if it makes sense, we're willing to spend the dough and forego other discretionary expenditures in the short term (golfing - mostly my sacrifice[:'(], oh well).


Your comments will be super appreciated,


Clark

[Fast Glass]

I'd recomend a t1i and save a few bucks. It sounds like you don't have that much experience and should learn some more about photography. You might later figure out that you want something totally differant, I know I did when I started out in photography and would never dream about being a wildlife junky.

[wickerprints]

FWIW, I may not have learned as much as I did had I not purchased the best possible camera and lenses I could afford. Being able to use a more advanced body opens you up to new techniques, not just in terms of what features are available, but also in how you go about shooting.


Personally, if I had started out with a Rebel I would (1) be kicking myself for not having invested in something more high-end, and (2) I would not have had as much incentive to push myself technically. But some people just want to shoot, which is perfectly fine. If that's the case, then it really makes very little difference what body--or lenses--you use. You can get better image quality with high-end equipment, but without more technical and aesthetic know-how, the photographer's skill level becomes the "rate-limiting step" in terms of how good the images are.

[scalesusa]

Actually, if you think about it, a simpler camera with less features develops your skill more than one that does it all for you. Once you are able to use the manual mode and set speed, aperture, asnd ISO to get the style of image you want, learn to use manual focus to focus right on the spot you want, not just the nearest object that the camera picks, then you will know which features you need, and which features are just sales generators.


There are tons of things to learn aboutthat even the most featured camera cannot do automatically.

[Sinh Nhut Nguyen]

We mostly take pictures of our (almost) 5 year old daughter and of the places we go and things we have done on our family vacations

If you only take snap of family, friends and vacation, both the 5D Mark II and 7D are beyond your needs. Just wait another month and get the T2i and spend the leftover money on some glass.

[Superman]

I hear what you both are saying and I do agree that both these camera's are more than what I need immediately. I don't mean to underestimate the amount of time and skill and experience it takes to be decent, nevermind good at photography, and not to disrespect the more talented and seasoned memebers of this forum - I do want to say that IMHO, my wife and I are fast learners and want to set the bar high for ourselves. The past year we have taken pics of our kid and places we have been, but we both want to grow as photographers and have more ability to express ourselves through this medium. I am hoping that the next camera we purchase will be something we can grow into.


That said, in your opinions then, do camera bodies change that fast such that I can really wait for future incarnations of the 5D or 7D or whatever else is down the pipe? Would I not really benefit immediately from the better autofocus and high ISO performance of the higher end prosumer bodies? I guess I'm just asking - what do these camera's provide that person, even an amateur can't learn from? I accept that the learning curve is steep but is it that steep?


Opinions and criticism is welcome...hey if this is nuts I'd rather know that as opposed to deluding myself.

[wickerprints]

Seeing as how you don't have any EF-S lenses, I can tell you've been thinking about eventually moving to the 36x24mm "full frame" format. You should probably do this sooner than later. You will realize a significant benefit in image quality from the transition.


However, the 7D is an excellent body and is superior to the 5D2 in several important ways, not the least of which is the AF performance. 19 cross-type f/5.6 sensors is nothing to sneeze at. Only the 1D/1Ds series have better AF. There is also the onboard flash that can function as a master for other Speedlites, and it is capable of much faster frame rates. The downside is that it remains APS-C. It also lacks a removable focusing screen, but unless you start buying L lenses faster than f/2.8, this won't matter to you.


You would probably learn equally as much from either camera. Do not concern yourself with rumors of a 5D3. If all we ever did was wait for a better body to come along, we would miss out on capturing in the best possible way the moments happening around us all the time. If you wait for the 5D3, then you'll see a 7D2 soon after that, or a 60D or a 1D5 or....


If you do buy the 5D2, don't buy the 24-105/4L IS kit. Save the money toward buying a better lens. There are many choices; the 24-70/2.8L, the 100/2.8L macro IS, and the 135/2L are all good examples. Limiting yourself to f/4 zooms--even L zooms--will not avail you of the best image quality that the 5D2's sensor has to offer.

[weclickyoupick.com]

Happy President's Day!


I have two 7D's. They fit many needs. Plan only about 3 years in body plan. To replace a VERY functoinal 7D with a 1D or new 5D mk3 (rumour) is temtping but at the expense of glass?.....never!


Pay careful attention to REAL needs.


J

[Jon Ruyle]

To replace a VERY functoinal 7D with a 1D or new 5D mk3 (rumour) is temtping but at the expense of glass?.....never!

Some might say that each time you shoot with an APS-C body, you're doing it at the expense of glass.


I'm not saying that *you* would be better off with a 5DII than your 7Ds, but superman is considering ff, and it isn't necessarily true that he would be better served by loading up on expensive glass than by buying a camera that takes full advantage of the the excellent lenses he already has. If he had a bunch of EF-S lenses, I might think differently, but the 17-40 is *begging* for full frame.

Go for the 5D2! The money wont be
wasted -- I'm sure you will appreciate the increased control over depth
of field, image quality, low light shooting, and all the other
advantages. It's like golf clubs. An expert will take better advantage
of a $700 Callaway driver, but even the novice will benefit from the
Callaway over the $30 Lynx driver. The only question you should be
asking yourself is why you didn't do this sooner. [img]/emoticons/emotion-2.gif[/img]

Beautifully said. One summer I house sat for a music professor who had an old Steinway (1907 or so). I suck at piano, but I spent the summer playing the thing and loving it. A friend of mine- a far better player- came over and refused to touch it. He said he wasn't worthy. [:P]

[willcons]

Hi Clark


I started out with a Pentax film camera about 10 years ago, migrated to a little Canon rebel, used it for afew years and then in the lastcouple ofyears have gone through a 40D, 50D and now a 5DMkII. I still have the 50D (not far fromthe 7D) and use it for sports with its crop factor which gives longer reach and faster shutter speeds, but honestly the 5DII isstunning. Outside of my kids sports I shoot a lot of landscapes in my (family's) travels as well as portraits, so perhaps there are some parallels in our respective photo journeys. Interestingly I have found that despite only having ahandful of focus points, the 5DII generally locksfocus faster than the 50D and so I am now using it a bit more for sports as well. It is simply amazing in low light/high ISO and leaves the 50D a long, long way behind and to me available light is always a lot more attractive than flash.


I have had the 24-105 for some time (along with a 70-200 2.8, 100-400, 50 1.4 and 16-35 2.8) and for my shootingthe 24-105 has beena very good lens and I always slot it on for "everyday" use as a "walkaround". I understand the 24-70 is probably sharper, is a stop better and really comes into its own shooting low light action (maybe I'll have it one day) but it is also much bigger andheavier, so if you intend to walk around with it in your travels...


So my advice for what it's worth...based on the lenses you have (very similar to what I started out with) if you and your wife are askeen as you say andyou take plenty of pictures and are not complete gumby's behind a camera, I think as you say youwill progress quickly and (as you say you have the cash) I think the 5DII would not disappointyou.I suspect the good glass you already have will be complemented by the 24-105 and willprovide you with landscape and portrait images that compared to what you have seen before will make you go WOW.Also there are plenty of 5D MkI's still out there serving their (pro) owners very well, so I am scepticalthat your enjoyment of photography would be served well by waiting until some unknown date in the future for an unknown upgrade...


Hope that makes sense and helps a bit.


Peter