Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II USM + 2x Extender + EOS 600D

[Rubar]

I’m considering to get a new Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II USM lens for my EOS 600D. OK, this lens cost 3 times as much as my camera, but I hope it will manage to capture sharp and crisp images that this lens can produce. I looked at ISO 12233 charts and noticed that 60D produces noticeably worse images that 1Ds Mark III. Why? Is my 600D going to compare to 60D? In this case the potential of this lens will never be used on my camera. Another plan I have, is to get Canon EF 2x III Extender as sometimes I would like to capture objects in a far distance and 400 mm option would be great. From review I understood that IS functionality remains, but I got confused about autofocus. Will it work or not? Or it will work at certain aperture sizes? What are your thoughts about this combination and would it be better to get just a Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM Lens without extender?
Thanks in advance!

[HDNitehawk]

Yes it will focus with the 2x, probably slower than without. With extender you will be at f/5.6 still in the range the camera will focus.

It doesn't matter which body you have, this lens is one of Canon's best zooms, if not the best.

Unless you are going to shoot only at 400mm, I wouldn't consider the 100-400mm. The 70-200mm is much better at every other point.

My only concern is the inability to do a manual focus adjustment with the body you have. But this is true with any lens. I think if I had one of the rebel bodies and bought this lens I would check the focus then if it was out send it to Canon to balance. This would be an excellent kit if everything is balanced and the focus is dead on.

Without getting in to a crop vs FF discussion, as for why the 1Ds III has better ISO than the 60D, it is a better camera. It has nothing to do with the lens.

[Busted Knuckles]

I have the config you are discussing and like it quite a bit. RE: the FF vs. crop - the image pipeline is different, etc, etc. Some would argue to properly compare the image it would be to compare the result of shooting the 60d w/ a 125mm while shooting the FF w/ a 200 mm - they would be the same distance from the image, the image would on the sensor the same, etc. unfortunately lens quality and characteristics between lenses are not so perfect. Remember the 200 would be the effective length as a 340.

Matched up w/ the 17-55 it gives a massively large range of focal lengths and super image quality.

[Rubar]

Thanks for your quick replies!

I have the config you are discussing and like it quite a bit.

Busted Knuckles, what do you think about image quality with extender at full focal lengths? What about auto-focus speed that by spec will be slower? Is it really noticeably slower? I understand that extender will take me to f/5.6 which is enough to auto-focus my 600D, but what If I will stop down a little more, lets say to f/11? Is auto-focus going to work slower or it will not work at all? Or it will open aperture to f/5.6 to auto-focus and then go back to 11 to take a shot? What are your thoughts on shooting wildlife with extender?

[Busted Knuckles]

Rubar, welcome to the wonderful world of image capture and sharing - it is a lot of fun. And THIS site/community is THE best site on the web.

To your questions.
image quality with extender at full focal lengths? Plenty fine - down right excellent
auto-focus speed that by spec will be slower? Is it really noticeably slower? not enough to be all that worried about and you will have to study to find a meaningful difference in all but lowest of light that no camera is all that predictable in - you will find the center point focus works most the time anyway.

Neuro makes the point on the focusing is always done wide open, so don't worry about the stopping down event.

Wildlife - depends - some cheetah chasing a springbok while you are shooting from a bouncing land rover - focus won't be the problem - finding the target will be.
Anything that is predictable or moving at a modest pace this combo will be fine. Birds in flight (BIF) are simply really tough to even find on a 640 mm equivalent lens, let alone track, plan for the wing beat vs. shutter lag - just how many shots like this are you going to try and take? Even someone using the 1dx needs a lot of practice to get it right.

If you think of all your pictures you are likely to WANT to take as an envelop - like a flight envelop of a plane - how dark/bright, moving targets, sequencing between shots (Frames per second), non-moving targets, macro (extension tubes are a blast w/ the 70-200), etc, then imagine how far out on each of these axis your camera/lens combo can take you. You won't be limited by the 70-200 lens & 2x!. When you look at the likely percentage of shots the next camera model "up" gets you, you will find you have a darn powerful set up. The 70-200 is a world class set of glass. Canon makes nothing better in a long zoom.

While I am on it - PLEASE learn how to hold the rig correctly - left hand takes ALL the weight, right hand drives the buttons - they put the tripod collar on the lens for a reason. Elbow against your side - you become a virtual bi-pod. If you are trying to be really still relax your shoulders and tighten your butt & gut - try standing on one leg with alternating tightness, it is crystal clear where you get best balance. Yep the 2.8 is heavy - so what - get a decent tripod/monopod if you are going to be standing for such a long time.

2nd to last - Practice, practice, practice - if you wear out the shutter in the 1st year Canon will replace it under warranty.... I doubt that you can though. Any given 100 exposures is effectively free. While the 1dx can fire off 14 FPS, you will be a better shooter if you plan, lead, and fire 1 shot at a time. Go to a local soccer match and try manual focusing - you will learn which focus modes are really for what environment more quickly. Did I say practice yet?

Lastly, if you haven't downloaded Magic Lantern and put it on your camera do that next - it expands the functionality of the t3i to an amazing level. While you can do this for free - toss the ML group $10 bucks - they are planning for some cool upgrades and man they deserve ever penny they get.

While I have been infected with the pixel peeping version of the GAS "Gear Acquisition Syndrome" you won't be disappointed.

Happy pix

Did I say have fun yet? I didn't for crying out loud go have some fun with this stuff.

[Kayaker72]

Rubar,

Welcome to the forums!

You mention what gear you are considering, but you don't mention what will you be shooting? I have owned and shot with the 7D and 100-400 mm combo for a couple of years now. It is a great combo for wildlife photography/birds and even some landscapes. I once considered one of the 70-200 mm lenses on the cropped sensor 7D (same as your 60D) and was adviced that it is a bit of an odd focal length (equivalent to 112-320 mm) on cropped sensor bodies. On a full framed sensor the 70-200 covers most of the standard portrait range. On a cropped sensor body is barely covers any of the standard portrait range and is instead a short telephoto lens, a little long for indoor use, a little short for outdoor use. I believe I've seen this combo used by forum members for close range outdoor (backyard, park, etc).

But, that may be exactly what you want. So it gets back to what you are planning to shoot.

[Rubar]

Thanks Kayaker72 for your reply.

You mention what gear you are considering, but you don't mention what will you be shooting?

I'm a true beginner in photography. I try to shoot everything. I have Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens which I may replace in the future, but for now it is enough to cover indoor and some close outdoor. So, I'm looking for something to cover my needs to take photos of some sport events and wildlife. I may use just a EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II USM while at the stadium or + EF 2x III Extender while at the racetrack or in the wildlife. I'm afraid, that slower auto-focus with extender will not work out for race bikes or cars. Does anyone have experiences with this?

[neuroanatomist]

I understand that extender will take me to f/5.6 which is enough to auto-focus my 600D, but what If I will stop down a little more, lets say to f/11? Is auto-focus going to work slower or it will not work at all? Or it will open aperture to f/5.6 to auto-focus and then go back to 11 to take a shot? What are your thoughts on shooting wildlife with extender?

AF is always performed with the lens wide open, then is stops down to the selected aperture right before the exposure. Same goes for looking through the viewfinder - unless you've got the DoF Preview button held down, you're looking at the DoF of the lens wide open regardless of the selected aperture. Although it won't affect any of the lenses you list, with a fast prime lens (faster than f/2.8), you'll see the DoF of f/2.8 through the VF regardless, that's due to the stock focusing screen. Some bodies allow you to swap in a different focus screen that will show you the true DoF of a fast prime like an f/1.2 or f/1.4 lens (the trade off is that with slower lenses, like an f/5.6 lens/combo, the VF will be quite dark).

I may use just a EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II USM while at the stadium or + EF 2x III Extender while at the racetrack or in the wildlife. I'm afraid, that slower auto-focus with extender will not work out for race bikes or cars. Does anyone have experiences with this?

The bare 70-200 II focuses very fast. While the extender does make a difference in AF speed, it won't have a huge real-world impact. I do find, though, that sometimes the AF hunts more with the 2x in place (that was more true on the 7D than on my 1D X). Fine for a simple subject (car on a track) but sometimes problematic for things like birds in thickets.

[Kayaker72]

I've sometimes wondered if a 70-200 mm f/2.8 II with 2x extender would be better in a kit than the 100-400 L, so I am not trying to dissuade you from considering it, but it is also a lot more money. But, I think this may be more the case for FF than for cropped sensor bodies. I can say is that for a couple of years my primary kit was the 7D, EFS 15-85, and 100-400L. It worked great and allowed me to photograph a little of everything primarily with two lenses.

As you are new to photography, a suggestion would be to buy a used 100-400L. If you don't like it you can turn around and sell it for probably very close to the same price you bought it for. Places to buy used include craigslist, ebay and fredmiranda.com (and occasionally here).