Originally Posted by Daniel Browning
good to know that, thank you!
good to know that, thank you!
I prefer a place that has a solid reputation for outstanding custmer service and will fix any problems I may have. Price is a low priority for me.
In my area there are a couple of local shops that know cameras inside out. And I try to use them if they are at all close to the good Internet places. That way I'm not sending money to some big shop in New York. More importantly, I get to try things out at the store, compare different lenses, and pick the brains of folks who may know stuff that will save me from making mistakes.
That said, I come to the store knowing what Amazon or Adorama is charging. If my local folks are charging two hundred more for some something, I will point out the price difference and ask if they can get closer to the Internet price. And if they can work with me, it means I have the best of both worlds.
Does Price Trump All?
IMHO, Yes.
jlau, you did not enter a Bio so I do not know where you are from, but here in eastern Virginia, U.S. where I live there arejust a few camera stores left. Two years ago I bought a Tamron 17-50 f2.8 DII from a local shop near to where I work. I paid an additional fifty dollars for the lens but got to try multiple copies before I bought. That and the fact that I was heading to the State Fair the next day witha newly purchased used 20D was worth the extra coin. In that situation convenience trumped price. However, the shop that I bought it from is no longer in business. My buying one new lens from them could not stop the inevitable.
It is unfortunate, but obviously a fact that our buying habits as well as social habits are changing. The days of the corner drugstore, community hardware, and gas stations withattendants are gone. The local community has gone from our neighbors on the same street to a host offacebook and forumfriends located around the world. Our storefronts have gone from main street to Google. We as capitalists will migrate towards the outlets that offer the best value. It's the same reason I have driven Toyotas for 26 yearsand not a Chevy or Ford.
Personally, I buy my photographic goods online most of the time from Adorama. I can shop, review, rate, and purchase whatever I want, anytime, night or day. This convenience, coupled with lower than retailpricing, cannot be trumped by a local store no matter how good their customer service and prices may be. I have purchased photography goods locally, but only when it was very convenient or a must have that day. I don't think too many stores will survive on those purchasing habits alone.
IMHO, you are not in a pickle, as much as you are empathetic to the changing world and sense of community we all live in. I applaud you for that. The stark reality is that things change. You cango with thechange or you can buck it. You have to weigh the cost/benefit, which it sounds like you have. The choice, as always,is solely yours.[]
I've rarely bought camera gear from traditional walk-in stores. What I really hate is that most of these stores don't put price tags on their items. This practice essentially eliminates the point of browsing, purposely makes comparison shopping harder, and actually forces me to look at competitors online. As a result, I only go to a local store if:
- I know exactly what I want and I need it immediately
- I need to try an item before I buy it
- I want to look at an item before I go online and buy it for less
- the item is cheap and is not worth bargain hunting for it.
Clearly, price is not the sole criterion by which I judge which retailer I purchase from. But the walk-in stores have not really made themselves attractive to me as a consumer. Their single biggest advantage is the immediacy and tangibility of the shopping process--I can take in a large number of items at once, get a sense of their scale and compatibility, and ask questions if I need to. If I want it I can walk out the door with it right then. I don't have to wait for shipping or deal with damaged goods. So it's a big deal that in the face of such a huge advantage, I still go online for important purchases, such as bodies and lenses, the bread-and-butter stuff. That's because I don't need someone to show me how to use an EF 100/2.8L macro IS, or tell me that I need it. I don't need someone to stand behind a counter and show off the 7D for me. Bodies and lenses don't satisfy any of the above criteria I mentioned, except possibly for (2), in which case rental is the smarter way to go, because then I can put the gear through its paces and actually *use* it.
Why buy online? It's not just price, though that is certainly a big factor. It's also the fact that I don't get upsold, or have to get someone's attention to do it. I can comparison shop FAR more easily and efficiently, and prices are clearly stated upfront. Walk-in store employees can be annoying and rude. I am often ignored, perhaps because I don't look like a middle-aged guy with deep pockets and no understanding of cameras. I look like the opposite--an art student (i.e., poor yet savvy) even though I'm not a student. I've walked into Samy's and the guy behind the counter will spend 30 minutes talking to some rich dude about the "necessity" of buying spare batteries, UV filters for his kit lens, and various accessories totaling several hundred dollars for his 50D when all he wants to do is take green box snapshots of his wife and kids; but the same employee won't (or can't) even give me a simple 10-second answer to a specific question I have about the availability of a quick release plate. WTF.
So yeah, I don't have much sympathy for the walk-in stores. They have a lot going for them, so if they can't compete, it's nobody's fault but their own.
I work out the total cost for the item... if it is with-in a few bucks or < 10% then I pick it up locally. I like having the option to physically walk in and return an item or have the issue fixed ASAP.
On a $1000 plus item I do my best to get it locally... most of the time the small store owner will adjust their price to make a sizable sale.
For example I picked up a TV locally. I went in and said I could buy the exact same TV on-online for say $3000 (including taxes and shipping) and showed all the paper work. The local store's price was $5500 - a massive difference of $2500. In the end I got it locally for $3300 (after taxes) but they delivered it, set it up, and calibrated the system. Luckily I purchased locally as after 11 month it die and required significant repairs - the locally guy showed up and fixed it under warranty. If I had purchased it on line I would have pay out of my pocket to get the 250 pound TV to a repair shop.
Example 2. I wanted to my a music server locally. The local prices was $4500 and on-line it was less than $2000. The local owner said he could not even come close to matching it and if I could buy it for that price I should although he said it would not service any warranty work on it and I would have to ship it back in that case at my cost. He was honest but I bought it online. I have since buy several items from them as I trust them to tell me the honest truth.
I have purchase most of my camera equipment locally just in case I needed it 'adjusted'. After all is said and done with the total price differences to date might be a few hundred dollars... but well worth the peace of mind.
As mentioned by others... I'll buy from what I know to be a reputable dealer with the best price. I see prices that beat B&H by large amounts quite often, but when you look into them they are, indeed, too good to be true.
I'd say my general rule is around 10%. If someone gives me consitantly better service than another business and is less that 10% more I'll pay for the service (good example was CompUSA vs Best Buy - CompUSA was a little more, but Best Buys employees tend to be largely clueless about their own stores products, whereas CompUSA generally had knowledgable employees).
Unless I'm mistaken it is the advertiser that is responsible for the taxes being collected and that California asks it's residents "Voluntarily" add up the taxes they would have paid and mail a check in to pay them. Hence, the buyer is breaking no law or doing anything illegal.
I would love to be able to browse a store for all the camera gear but I live (probably like alot of others) in a relatively rural area....ie no camera shop in town. I would have to drive about 90 miles one way to look through a store. No feasible way to do it without spending a ton of free time on the road,not to mention gas money. On-line shopping is much much easier and in most cases you can't beat the price. As far as service goes I bet most small shops would have to send lenses and cameras back to the manufacturer anyway for any type of significant repair. I've had my 40D and lenses for 2-3 years now with no problems at all....chances of needing service on these well built items is low in my opinion. I'm sure it happens but I'd rather box it up and send it than drive 90 miles to drop it off at a dealer.
Just my two centavos...
In this case you are mistaken. The seller is only responsible to collect taxes if they have a physical presence (e.g. brick and mortar store) in the same state as the buyer. Of course, many states are trying to get legislation passed to change that (unsuccessfully, so far).
You misunderstand what "voluntary" means in this context. It does not mean "I volunteer to owe taxes." You owe the taxes no matter what. But the state (currently) has no way of proving how much you owe. If you never bought anything out of state, you would not owe anything. If you bought $100,000 out of state, you would owe $10,000. They can't tell either way. So they require you to "volunteer" the information honestly.
It's like working for a company that doesn't report to the IRS. If they pay you $100,000, but they never tell the IRS (via W-2 form), then there's no way for the IRS to know that you owe $30,000 in taxes. Legally, you are required to "voluntarily" inform the IRS that you were paid $100,000 and you are enclosing a check for $30,000 in taxes. The only difference is that the IRS is more shrewd and powerful than the states and it will catch you more often, whereas the states can only rely on your complete honesty.
What's funny is that many people don't even know that they owe such taxes. Of those who know, there is a high percentage that willingly choose to evade payment, simply because they know they can't get caught.
It is tax evasion. Pure and simple. Most people don't *know* they are evading taxes, but it's still tax evasion, just like putting false information on your 1044.
Most states combine their use tax return with their income tax return, so that you cannot file your tax return without signing your name to the part that says "I did not buy anything out of state". There's another part that says "I did buy some things out of state. The total amount was $20,000 and I have I included $2,000 use tax payment", but fewer people check that box.
My state has no income tax, so we're required to file a Use Tax return every *month* to report the amount of out of state purchase and a check enclosed for an amount equal to what the sales tax would have been. Needless to say that no one does it. In fact, in the many years that I've been aware of the use tax requirements, I have never yet met one single person that was aware of it. Some of them are liable for tens of thousands of dollars in back taxes, not to mention the penalties and interest.
Well, LocallyI have two camera stores and both have been arogant and snobish.When I inquired about Canon products at one store, the guy told me that Albuquerque was a "Nikon" town. I normally like being able touch or hold something before I buy it and I like personal customer service, but this town has made it easy for me to buy from B&H, andthey have NEVER disapointed me.
Bob
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